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IconRPCV Feb 8, 2008 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 3339927)
Well, international recognition is one indicator of how "world-class" a city is, and it's not remote areas I'm talking about - Have you been overseas and told people your from San Diego?? San Diego does not have widespread recognition in large overseas urban areas in Asia and even Europe. Over and over and over from Rome to Delhi to Bangkok, residents of these major cities who have never been to the US had never heard of San Diego, whereas they had heard of LA, SF and LV

Yes, we have recognition nationally, but even that is skewed. I was in Florida during the wildfires, and when I expressed my concern half the people I talked to had no idea San Diego was even effected at first because all the media attention was on Malibu even though those fires were smaller

I don't argue San Diego is in the process of "carving a niche on the West Coast", but it's not there yet no matter how much we want it to be

I disagree, I have traveled extensively over seas and even in the more remote parts of South America people knew that San Diego was in California, and many associated it as a beach and surf destination. Yes we are overshadowed by L.A., who cares?

SDCAL Feb 9, 2008 4:29 AM

^^ Who cares that we are overshadowed by LA? Usually, people interested in San Diego becoming a world class city are.

The conservative anti-progress NYMBYS who want Sd to remain a sleepy military town forever are the ones who generally "don't care about SD being overshadowed by LA", in fact they like it

HurricaneHugo Feb 9, 2008 5:18 AM

When I was in France a lot of people knew about the San Diego Zoo which was strange?

"San Diego? La ville avec le zoologie tres grande?"

LAsam Feb 9, 2008 5:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 3342386)
When I was in France a lot of people knew about the San Diego Zoo which was strange?

"San Diego? La ville avec le zoologie tres grande?"

Well, it is one hell of a zoo.

Derek Feb 9, 2008 6:29 AM

I haven't been to the zoo in so long.

dl3000 Feb 9, 2008 7:42 AM

Whenever I discussed San Diego with French people they knew it was in California but they had no concept of it's size or anything, they just new it was some city down south that they heard about on their visits to SF or LA. One guy though had his son on a foreign exchange program to UCSD.

bmfarley Feb 9, 2008 7:31 PM

Well, I never intended that an NFL team in San Diego had anything to do with the city be known around the world. The intent was to convey that San Diego without the Chargers would relegate the city to the national consciousness similar to Memphis, Austin, San Antonio, Portland, or Sacramento.

The point is... no one would miss San Diego if it did not exist. And, businesses both directly related (tourism, some retail sales) and indirectly related (busnisses services, consulting) would be negatively affected.

bmfarley Feb 11, 2008 2:59 AM

Some pretty pictures...

This is the proposed Staybridge Suites at the SR163 entrance/exit to downtown. It's going b4 the CCDC Desig Review Committee on the 12th. I can't imagine staying there with the morning rush hour cranking up.... and approaching that stop at Ash from a high rate of speed!

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...20Pics/163.jpg



Bosa's Ketter & Ash project got CCDC Bord approval a couple of weeks ago. This is the only pic I know of... not certain if the design was sunstantially adjusted.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...tnerandAsh.jpg

HurricaneHugo Feb 11, 2008 8:48 AM

anybody got pics of sapphire/breeza going up?

sandiegodweller Feb 12, 2008 3:24 PM

Eye-catching span may get 2nd look


Bridge proposal's price tag balloons
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

February 12, 2008


SAN DIEGO – When a pedestrian bridge between Petco Park and the Convention Center was envisioned four years ago, officials agreed to make it look grand, an iconic entryway into downtown.
Now that the original $12.8 million price tag has grown to as high as $30 million, they may rethink that.

Does the city return to the drawing board and push for a more ordinary span? Or does it soldier ahead with the proposed eye-catching suspension bridge by San Diego architecture firm Safdie Rabines, trying to rein in costs as best it can?

Those are questions that the Centre City Development Corp., downtown's redevelopment agency, will consider tomorrow.

Two recent bids – one for $23 million and one for $30 million – were rejected by the city over procedural issues, so the agency would have to go out for another round of bidding, anyway.

CCDC Chairman Fred Maas said that starting over won't save the agency money. It has already spent $2.3 million. And $4.8 million in state and federal grants, which have deadlines in June and September, are tied to the current design.

“I said, 'Let's go back and take a look at the utilitarian designs that were presented to us,' ” Maas said. “But the net to the agency was going to be about the same” if the grants were lost.

One critic of redevelopment thinks it's crazy to spend so much on a footbridge.

“I see this as a city with a beer budget and a champagne appetite,” said Mel Shapiro, who has long accused the city of allowing the downtown agency to spend on frills instead of paying back old loans to the cash-strapped city treasury.

At stake are tax dollars – which the downtown redevelopment agency says it can no longer afford to dispense like a cash machine – and public access to San Diego Bay.

The bridge would offer a path to the waterfront for the East Village, downtown's fastest-growing residential neighborhood. At present, the only downtown crossing points along the southern half of Harbor Drive are at Fifth Avenue and at Market Street.

It could also help downtown's parking crunch by making the Port of San Diego's new 2,000-space parking garage more user-friendly for people headed to Petco Park and East Village businesses.

Maas said the agency hopes to find more state or federal funding to help with the extra cost.

Some downtown residents want the redevelopment agency to forge ahead with the iconic blueprint, which uses a stylized central post attached to steel cables.

“If we go back to redesign, we waste a lot of time,” said Sandra Simmons, a longtime downtown resident who is host of an online community for her neighbors. “The cost of construction isn't going to be cheaper tomorrow.”

Gary Smith, president of the 300-member San Diego Downtown Residents Group, said his board of directors likes the idea of an iconic visual statement along Harbor Drive.

Other cities have built not-too-shabby bridges for less, and other states have gotten a lot more for $30 million.

Lake Hodges, near Escondido, is getting a 990-foot pedestrian and bicycle bridge for $10 million. The money is coming from federal, state and local governments. Construction will be finished in March 2009.

Solana Beach built two 120-foot pedestrian bridges over railroad tracks in the past year. The price tags were $2.1 million and $1.34 million. However, those bridges aren't as tall as the proposed downtown span because the tracks in Solana Beach are below street level.

Elsewhere in the nation, $30 million bought a glass-bottomed Skywalk, completed in 2006, that overlooks the Grand Canyon, offering a bird's-eye view of the canyon bottom. And a two-mile Discovery Bridge is being built over the Missouri River between South Dakota and Nebraska at a cost of about $24 million.

Maas said news of the Lake Hodges bridge made him want to take another look at the downtown project.

“We better go find out what they did in that bridge, and why that bridge doesn't work for us,” he said.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeanette Steele: (619) 293-1030; jen.steele@uniontrib.com

SDCAL Feb 13, 2008 4:16 AM

^^^ the article comes with a vote, here are the results so-far

Results
With costs for a landmark pedestrian bridge between Petco Park and the convention center reaching $30 million, what should the city do?
1) Build something more mundane, for much less money.

28.6% (190)
2) Press on with the iconic bridge, it's worth the investment and too much has been invested already.

43.7% (290)
3) Can't people just use a crosswalk there?

27.7% (184)



If you want to vote, go to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...m12bridge.html

I can't believe 28% of the people want to just leave the intersection a cross-walk!!!

here is a rendering from the article

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont.../bridge430.jpg

bmfarley Feb 13, 2008 4:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 3350900)
^^^ the article comes with a vote, here are the results so-far

Results
With costs for a landmark pedestrian bridge between Petco Park and the convention center reaching $30 million, what should the city do?
1) Build something more mundane, for much less money.

28.6% (190)
2) Press on with the iconic bridge, it's worth the investment and too much has been invested already.

43.7% (290)
3) Can't people just use a crosswalk there?

27.7% (184)



If you want to vote, go to http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/m...m12bridge.html

I can't believe 28% of the people want to just leave the intersection a cross-walk!!!

here is a rendering from the article

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniont.../bridge430.jpg

One... there is no intersection across tracks to Park Blvd.

Survey is flawed from the get-go. A coss-walk is not an option. If Park is going to be opened to Harbor it must come with a Ped bridge. No Ped bridge... no street... and ergo... no crosswalk.

A better option would have been to replace crosswalk with street underpass... but gee... that's gonna cost 100m or more.

I have no knowledge of this project other than what I've read online here, or the Trib site, or the CCDC site.

IconRPCV Feb 13, 2008 4:53 AM

I want something that will allow me to walk the to the bay from the east village where I live. As it stands now I have to walk over to 5th ave in the Gaslamp and then walk up over the convention center just to get to the bay, that is insane. I would prefer the grand design, but at this point I just want something.

sandiego_urban Feb 13, 2008 6:07 AM

^^I totally agree with you. While I hope the iconic version gets built, it's more important just to get some sort of span built so that East Village can be reconnected to the Bay. Perhaps they should look into making it wider like a a deck span with grass maybe? Just an idea.

I'm not digging the idea of putting a crosswalk there, though. Crossing Harbor Drive and the trolley tracks might be a little frustrating.

bushman61988 Feb 13, 2008 6:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 3351155)
^^I totally agree with you. While I hope the iconic version gets built, it's more important just to get some sort of span built so that East Village can be reconnected to the Bay. Perhaps they should look into making it wider like a a deck span with grass maybe? Just an idea.

I'm not digging the idea of putting a crosswalk there, though. Crossing Harbor Drive and the trolley tracks might be a little frustrating.


I believe in the article, it read that a crosswalk is NOT an option, PERIOD. They shut down the Park Blvd. crosswalk when Petco was opened b/c of the Gridlock hell that would occur after gamedays when fans would try to leave..can u imagine the thousands of pedestrians, thousands of cars, AND trains tryin to get through??...It ain't gonna happen.

The only real option is to build a bridge, and either you bite the bullet, build the beautiful, iconic bridge that millions in grants and planning was already put into, or forget all that hard work and start ALL over again from scratch w/ an average, dull, not-so-hot bridge...

Of course, average, dull, and Not-So-Hot is perfect for San Diego! In fact, that pretty much is San Diego when it comes to civic projects. Lets face it, the last really DARING, Exciting, Iconic Architectural Jewel that San Diego built was probably the Balboa Park Buildings 1915-1916...


C'mon CCDC! Build this bridge, even if it is a little pricey! It will last a lifetime!

IconRPCV Feb 13, 2008 4:07 PM

I think PETCO Park is pretty iconic.

ucsbgaucho Feb 13, 2008 7:29 PM

Port pursues bright idea for bridge

CORONADO – The San Diego-Coronado Bridge soon may be bathed in light after the Port of San Diego approved plans yesterday to pursue an artistic illumination of the majestic structure.

The Port Commission voted for its Public Art Committee to partner with state transportation officials to light the 2.12-mile bridge from underneath.

Commissioner Sylvia Rios interrupted a presentation by Catherine Sass, the port's public art director.

Before the presentation was even finished, Rios wanted to make a motion to authorize the proposal, which also included a $50,000 design budget. The vote was unanimous.

Gaidi Finnie, a member of the art committee, said he was surprised but gratified at the swift decision. Finnie said the project has received widespread support from a number of local, state, military and federal officials.

“I feel I was pushing for this for so long,” Finnie said. “I was relentless. It is such a great project.”

Public opinion on both sides of the bridge appears to favor the project. Maria Lemus of Barrio Logan, whose Evans Street home of 20 years has a view of the bridge, said yesterday she had never heard of the idea but liked it.

“It looks beautiful right now,” Lemus said. “I think it would look very nice with lights.”

Bill Speer, who lives on Glorietta Bay Boulevard in Coronado, said he and his wife, Marsi Steirer, are supporters of the bridge lighting.

“We wouldn't have been if it had been proposed with standard lighting,” said Speer, whose 28 solar roof panels help him offset half his electric costs. “I think it's a great idea to the extent that they use energy-efficient lighting.”

Robert Mosher, architect of the San Diego-Coronado Bridge, attended the meeting prepared to speak in favor of the project.

“It could be a real nighttime asset,” said Mosher, adding that he would love to see the “graceful pylons” under the bridge illuminated.

Finnie said he is not sure what to expect from artists, but it may look nothing like a rendering created by a local architect for his presentations. The rendering shows the bridge bathed in blue light.

Built with 20,000 tons of steel and 94,000 cubic yards of concrete, the bridge opened Aug. 3, 1969. Many have marveled at the dramatic curve of the bridge, which spans the San Diego Bay.

Finnie said two recent examples of bridge lighting are the Sundial Bridge in Redding and the Vincent Thomas Bridge at the Port of Los Angeles. The Sundial Bridge is lighted at night by 210 lights. The Vincent Thomas Bridge uses cost-efficient light-emitting diodes, or LEDs, and a solar photovoltaic system.

Sass said the district hopes to secure arts or lighting grants as the main source of funding for the installation, maintenance and electrical costs.

Finnie said the committee's first step is to seek artist proposals for the lighting plan, which they emphasized must be energy efficient.

“The intent is to get as efficient a design as possible, where cost is not the deciding factor whether to do it or not,” Sass said.

The art committee next will prepare guidelines for the lighting project. Committee members will begin contacting artists for proposals. They will narrow the list to a few artists, who then will be paid about $15,000 each to create models.

Derek Feb 14, 2008 3:36 AM

I'd rather see the $30+ million going towards the new library actually.

SDCAL Feb 14, 2008 8:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek loves SD (Post 3353255)
I'd rather see the $30+ million going towards the new library actually.

I agree with you, I really wish the library would break ground !

SDCAL Feb 14, 2008 8:28 AM

looks like the bridge will move forward, no thanks to the Hilton :)

Hilton won't chip in on downtown footbridge





By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

5:38 p.m. February 13, 2008

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Downtown San Diego will get its iconic footbridge, redevelopment officials said Wednesday, and outside groups or governments might help shoulder the cost that has ballooned to as much as $30 million.
But Hilton won't be among them.



Advertisement The hotel company, which is building a 1,200-room hotel at one end of the proposed Harbor Drive pedestrian bridge, is “counting on” the footpath, spokesman Kip Howard told the agency's board Wednesday.
But when the Centre City Development Corp.'s chairman asked if Hilton, which spent $350 million on the hotel, could share the cost, Howard said, “We feel we have done our fair share.”

Agency Chairman Fred Maas responded, “I'm sure you do.”

The agency will forge ahead on the eye-catching design, which will stretch from Petco Park to the Convention Center. It will open a path over Harbor Drive from the ballpark and East Village to the new Hilton and a 2,000-space Port of San Diego parking garage.

The agency revisited some plainer bridge designs, but officials said choosing one of them would jeopardize state and federal grants and delay the project. Agency President Nancy Graham said she's working with the San Diego Association of Governments to seek more money from the state.

The agency already has a $2 million state grant and is getting $2.8 million from the Federal Highway Administration. JMI Realty, the real estate company of Padres owner John Moores, will contribute $4.9 million.

The bridge's cost has grown from a 2005 estimate of $12.8 million.

Graham said the agency will seek new bidders, since the only two bids submitted in a recent round – one at $23 million and one at $30 million – were rejected for procedural flaws


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