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-   -   CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87889)

ardecila Oct 9, 2017 10:43 PM

Cicero/55th could be sunken below grade and the runway extended over it. The bigger problem is the RPZ, if you extended the runway you'd create hazards from the Orange Line viaduct and the freight tracks which are elevated. Plus the gains in length would be pretty modest.

If I had to expand Midway with godlike powers, I'd create a new north/south runway along Central from 55th down past 63rd and into the Clearing Yard as far as is feasible. A few blocks of houses would need to go, but comparatively little. You could possibly squeeze in an 8000' runway.

Either 63rd or 65th would have to go into an underpass beneath the new runway. Bundle this with a new overpass for Central over the Clearing Yards, which the Southwest Side has been requesting for decades to ease traffic on Cicero and Harlem.

CanesFan Oct 10, 2017 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 7947064)
Cicero/55th could be sunken below grade and the runway extended over it. The bigger problem is the RPZ, if you extended the runway you'd create hazards from the Orange Line viaduct and the freight tracks which are elevated. Plus the gains in length would be pretty modest.

If I had to expand Midway with godlike powers, I'd create a new north/south runway along Central from 55th down past 63rd and into the Clearing Yard as far as is feasible. A few blocks of houses would need to go, but comparatively little. You could possibly squeeze in an 8000' runway.

Either 63rd or 65th would have to go into an underpass beneath the new runway. Bundle this with a new overpass for Central over the Clearing Yards, which the Southwest Side has been requesting for decades to ease traffic on Cicero and Harlem.

The problem with building a north/south runway at Midway is that it would interfere with O'Hare's traffic flow, particularly departures off of 22L at O'Hare. The new runway would likely have to be arrival only in a north flow and departure only in a south flow.

denizen467 Oct 10, 2017 4:40 PM

^ How does ORD 22L interfere with a theoretical 18/36 at MDW - don't you mean ORD 14R? The latter is expected to be decommissioned in the next three years.


You could get nearly an extra 2000 feet out of 13C/31C at MDW if you depressed Cicero at 63rd and then bought up a whole neighborhood, before you'd further need to depress a set of freight tracks. Buying even more houses for a RPZ could be necessary though. This plan would gift the Bedford Park cluster of hotels a really good runway view (though nothing like Princess Juliana).

Doing an extension at the sw corner of the airport would be simpler, except it could need the cooperation of Bedford Park.

jimjoe45 Oct 10, 2017 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 7947666)
^ How does ORD 22L interfere with a theoretical 18/36 at MDW - don't you mean ORD 14R? The latter is expected to be decommissioned in the next three years.


You could get nearly an extra 2000 feet out of 13C/31C at MDW if you depressed Cicero at 63rd and then bought up a whole neighborhood, before you'd further need to depress a set of freight tracks. Buying even more houses for a RPZ could be necessary though. This plan would gift the Bedford Park cluster of hotels a really good runway view (though nothing like Princess Juliana).

Doing an extension at the sw corner of the airport would be simpler, except it could need the cooperation of Bedford Park.

How is this discussion still going on? MDW is, and has been, penned in by thousands of single family homes for decades. Any "options" being discussed here require an impossible amount of financial and political capital. If a carrier needs that sort of equipment they can use ORD's 10K and 13K ft runways 15 miles north.

We should be discussing the the $323M Modernization Program the city just began at Midway. Expanded security, parking garages, and restaurant options. New renderings and video were released last week and look great.

Steely Dan Oct 10, 2017 5:46 PM

^ yes. MDW runway extension discussion is a complete and total dead end.

as for the MDW modernization program, now we're talking! doubling TSA screening capacity is long overdue.

also, i think someone in this thread previously mentioned that a new and better connection between the CTA station and the terminal is part of the new work as well, which is also long overdue.

CanesFan Oct 10, 2017 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 7947666)
^ How does ORD 22L interfere with a theoretical 18/36 at MDW - don't you mean ORD 14R?

No, 22L actually. When ORD is in a west flow, Southbound and eastbound departures are typically conducted off of 22L. The O'HARE TWO DEPARTURE http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1710/00166OHARE.PDF has a climb gradient requiring aircraft to be at or above 3000 feet by 5 miles from the ORD VOR and above 4000 feet by eight miles from the ORD VOR. This is done to prevent conflicts with MDW traffic. If the prevailing winds are strong enough to require 31C arrivals at MDW, the southbound and eastbound departures out of ORD tend to backup. If MDW were to construct a theoretical 18-36, Runway 18 arrivals would necessitate a flight path slightly more northerly than the current 31C arrivals, thus impacting ORD's departure flow.

k1052 Oct 10, 2017 8:18 PM

I'm desperately hoping a Tortas Frontera makes it into MDW with the new concessions expansion. It would make flying Southwest, the times work requires it, that much less painful.

Mister Uptempo Oct 10, 2017 10:28 PM

You'll see the airlines using Gary before a single house gets torn down for a runway extension at Midway.

N830MH Oct 11, 2017 3:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo (Post 7948111)
You'll see the airlines using Gary before a single house gets torn down for a runway extension at Midway.

Absolutely!!! We will see what happen. You'll find out soon enough.

the urban politician Oct 11, 2017 3:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjoe45 (Post 7947740)
How is this discussion still going on? MDW is, and has been, penned in by thousands of single family homes for decades. Any "options" being discussed here require an impossible amount of financial and political capital. If a carrier needs that sort of equipment they can use ORD's 10K and 13K ft runways 15 miles north.

We should be discussing the the $323M Modernization Program the city just began at Midway. Expanded security, parking garages, and restaurant options. New renderings and video were released last week and look great.

$323 million seems like a shitload to spend for the improvements we seem to be getting

LaSalle.St.Station Oct 11, 2017 3:34 AM

Ive always thought that through the years Midway operations should aquire buffer land up to the railroad ring surrounding the airport as it became available. Not necessarily a prelude to expansion but at least positioning the airport for future design enhancements.

IrishIllini Oct 11, 2017 3:44 PM

This may be totally wrong, but I feel expansions at Gary-Chicago are more feasible than expansions at Midway. Probably easier to make happen too. Land values in west Gary are probably a steal in comparison to the area around Midway. That bad news there is Illinois loses on any business related taxes associated with airport usage by airlines.

ardecila Oct 11, 2017 3:52 PM

Gary just expanded their runway to handle larger jets. They can't get any airlines to serve them. NW Indiana is not a major business destination, the airport is too far from the Loop at 30 miles away, and Gary itself has a massive image problem. Just driving to the terminal requires passing blocks of abandoned truck stops and ruined strip malls.

woodrow Oct 11, 2017 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 7947948)
I'm desperately hoping a Tortas Frontera makes it into MDW with the new concessions expansion. It would make flying Southwest, the times work requires it, that much less painful.

THIS^^^^
Omigosh. That would be a dream. Though I am enjoying Publican at O'Hare now.

Quote:

$323 million seems like a shitload to spend for the improvements we seem to be getting
I saw some other images that makes me think it is even bigger than what we see, plus the price includes major redo of the CTA connection to the terminal. Tearing down one of the spiral ramps, making corridor a straight shot, etc.

kbud Oct 19, 2017 1:01 AM

T5 Expansion Start Date
 
When is the Terminal 5 nine gate expansion going to start? Or won't this begin until the Terminal 2 project begins? The T5 expansion was announced in July 2016, almost 16 months ago now.

Will it solely be additional gates or will there be any additional baggage carousels or passport control lanes?

k1052 Oct 19, 2017 1:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbud (Post 7957440)
When is the Terminal 5 nine gate expansion going to start? Or won't this begin until the Terminal 2 project begins? The T5 expansion was announced in July 2016, almost 16 months ago now.

Will it solely be additional gates or will there be any additional baggage carousels or passport control lanes?

I thought CDA planned to award the contract by the end of this year and get started soon after. Since it looks like the plan is to shift Delta over to T5 this will need to be completed well before they start taking down T2. Plans may have been revised with the new framework so unsure if CBP/landside upgrades will still be part of the package.

F1 Tommy Oct 27, 2017 12:29 AM

Last United Airlines 747 flights from O'Hare this week. They have a special aircraft with 1970's style titles on it doing the flights.

N830MH Oct 27, 2017 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1 Tommy (Post 7966667)
Last United Airlines 747 flights from O'Hare this week. They have a special aircraft with 1970's style titles on it doing the flights.

Wow! I'll be damned. I'm very sad. They will miss the 747 aircraft. I actually flew on 747-400 for 3 times out of AMS-LAX, and LHR-PHX twice.

k1052 Oct 27, 2017 1:00 PM

Looks like the central deicing facility is coming along. They're grading the hell out of the west side dirt piles. Lots of concrete trucks and drainage pipe going in yesterday.

Kngkyle Nov 24, 2017 5:07 PM

Hainan to start 2x weekly service to Chengdu from O'Hare next summer.

I didn't see that one coming.


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