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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Sep 24, 2020 12:42 AM

SCF Game 1: 1.081M (SN)
SCF Game 2: 841K (SN)

I don't think these numbers include CBC/TVA but I could be wrong...means SN had double the audience that CTV/TSN had going head to head against Monday Night Football which is ok I suppose.

I know in the US the US Open golf (lowest ever rating in 30+ years of metering) and NASCAR race (lowest rated at Bristol in 22 years) this past weekend were both obliterated by NFL and other properties this past weekend so I assume something similar happened north of the border.

thurmas Sep 24, 2020 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9051718)
SCF Game 1: 1.081M (SN)
SCF Game 2: 841K (SN)

I don't think these numbers include CBC/TVA but I could be wrong...means SN had double the audience that CTV/TSN had going head to head against Monday Night Football which is ok I suppose.

I know in the US the US Open golf (lowest ever rating in 30+ years of metering) and NASCAR race (lowest rated at Bristol in 22 years) this past weekend were both obliterated by NFL and other properties this past weekend so I assume something similar happened north of the border.

shows how far hockey has fallen in Canada just a while back an average November HNIC game on Saturday with the Leafs would draw 1.2 to 1.6 million viewers a night now the Stanley Cup finals has similar ratings to a CFL labour classic game between the Riders and Bombers. I think with the 27 year stanley cup drought in Canada and no Canadian team even in the finals in almost a decade when the Canucks were in 2011 fans have given up on their local Canadian teams ever having a chance and have moved on to Basketball Football and Soccer.

Djeffery Sep 24, 2020 1:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9051723)
shows how far hockey has fallen in Canada just a while back an average November HNIC game on Saturday with the Leafs would draw 1.2 to 1.6 million viewers a night now the Stanley Cup finals has similar ratings to a CFL labour classic game between the Riders and Bombers. I think with the 27 year stanley cup drought in Canada and no Canadian team even in the finals in almost a decade when the Canucks were in 2011 fans have given up on their local Canadian teams ever having a chance and have moved on to Basketball Football and Soccer.

The SCF doesn't usually compete with NFL or a Blue Jays playoff race either. I don't think there is any info to be gained with hockey TV ratings right now.

thurmas Sep 24, 2020 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9051783)
The SCF doesn't usually compete with NFL or a Blue Jays playoff race either. I don't think there is any info to be gained with hockey TV ratings right now.

Blue Jays bahaha are they even still playing I have not seen anyone watch their games or ask to see them displayed or even seen them displayed at any pub/restaurant or gym here in Winnipeg since their 2015 playoff run. And baseball expanded their playoffs to 16 teams this year of course the Jays and most clubs have a shot at a playoff spot this year baseball playoff spots used to be coveted and extremely hard to get as only 4 clubs made the playoffs now it is watered down participation ribbon playoffs.

JHikka Sep 24, 2020 3:27 AM

Your run-on ramblings are difficult to decipher at times but i'll try my best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9051723)
shows how far hockey has fallen in Canada just a while back an average November HNIC game on Saturday with the Leafs would draw 1.2 to 1.6 million viewers a night now the Stanley Cup finals has similar ratings to a CFL labour classic game between the Riders and Bombers.

You're a bit high on both accounts.

The most recent samples we have for normal HNIC prime east (so, Leafs) from November 2019 have those windows hitting around 1M viewers on just CBC. I'm pretty certain that CBC & Sportsnet splitting viewers is the cause of lower viewer totals on HNIC but i'd have to do some digging to figure that out. I've posted previously outlining how Sportsnet's Wednesday games have been getting bigger audiences than the HNIC Saturday window in recent years.

As for the CFL figures, here's recent Labour Day SSK/WPG games:
849K (2019)
838K (2018)
818K (2017)
889K (2016)

Comparing this SCF to a November Leafs game probably isn't very fair given the, you know, Canadian team taking part in the latter. The last time a Canadian team made the SCF, CBC was easily attracting 5M+ for games, with Game 7 VAN/BOS hitting 8.5M average. Difficult to say that hockey has fallen off in Canada during a *checks notes*...Dallas/Tampa Bay final. I recall a similar sentiment during the LAK/NJ final from 2014. This doesn't even take into account the NFL/NBA/MLB competition the NHL is currently facing which it normally wouldn't during your typical SCF or playoff runs.

Select Leafs, Jets/Flames, and Habs games from the recent Playoff Qualifying rounds were garnering average audiences of 1.6-1.8M, which IMO are pretty good figures for hockey in August. These numbers are similar to what the Raptors were getting during their recent series against Boston.

Your offish post about the Jays actually took me back to some of the ratings the Jays were getting in their 2015/2016 peak. In 2016 the Jays averaged over 1M per game for the entire season. 78 games over 1M viewers! (link)

AFAIK the highest rated Jays game during that time was ALCS Game 6 v. Kansas City which landed at 5.12M average on SN. That's Canadian team-in-Stanley Cup Final territory. World Cup Final territory. :haha:

JHikka Oct 2, 2020 7:27 PM

Stanley Cup Finals - Game 2 - 834K (387K Sportsnet / 447K CBC)
Stanley Cup Finals - Game 3 - 937K (564K Sportsnet / 363K CBC)
Stanley Cup Finals - Game 4 - 1.0M (482K Sportsnet / 527K CBC)
Stanley Cup Finals - Game 6 - 1.3M (784K Sportsnet / 525K CBC)

https://brioux.tv/blog/2020/09/30/st...un-put-on-ice/

As noted in the article, the final Leafs game two months ago garnered an average audience of 2.5M, or roughly double & triple what the SCF fetched. At this point, as Tom Mayenknecht pointed out on TSN Radio, these SCF ratings are better than no ratings at all.

isaidso Oct 2, 2020 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9051723)
shows how far hockey has fallen in Canada just a while back an average November HNIC game on Saturday with the Leafs would draw 1.2 to 1.6 million viewers a night now the Stanley Cup finals has similar ratings to a CFL labour classic game between the Riders and Bombers. I think with the 27 year stanley cup drought in Canada and no Canadian team even in the finals in almost a decade when the Canucks were in 2011 fans have given up on their local Canadian teams ever having a chance and have moved on to Basketball Football and Soccer.

The Canadian sports landscape is far more diverse than it was even 20 years ago. Itt's much better having options but it will be interesting to see what viewership is like when a Canadian NHL team makes the Stanley Cup Finals. Will it be similar to what we saw when Vancouver made it, will it be higher, or will it fall short of that? Despite the slow gradual decline of hockey I suspect the numbers will still be good. The question for me is how the numbers will compare to Raptors viewership during the 2019 NBA Finals.

Acajack Oct 2, 2020 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9051856)
Your run-on ramblings are difficult to decipher at times but i'll try my best.


You're a bit high on both accounts.

The most recent samples we have for normal HNIC prime east (so, Leafs) from November 2019 have those windows hitting around 1M viewers on just CBC. I'm pretty certain that CBC & Sportsnet splitting viewers is the cause of lower viewer totals on HNIC but i'd have to do some digging to figure that out. I've posted previously outlining how Sportsnet's Wednesday games have been getting bigger audiences than the HNIC Saturday window in recent years.

As for the CFL figures, here's recent Labour Day SSK/WPG games:
849K (2019)
838K (2018)
818K (2017)
889K (2016)

Comparing this SCF to a November Leafs game probably isn't very fair given the, you know, Canadian team taking part in the latter. The last time a Canadian team made the SCF, CBC was easily attracting 5M+ for games, with Game 7 VAN/BOS hitting 8.5M average. Difficult to say that hockey has fallen off in Canada during a *checks notes*...Dallas/Tampa Bay final. I recall a similar sentiment during the LAK/NJ final from 2014. This doesn't even take into account the NFL/NBA/MLB competition the NHL is currently facing which it normally wouldn't during your typical SCF or playoff runs.

Select Leafs, Jets/Flames, and Habs games from the recent Playoff Qualifying rounds were garnering average audiences of 1.6-1.8M, which IMO are pretty good figures for hockey in August. These numbers are similar to what the Raptors were getting during their recent series against Boston.

Your offish post about the Jays actually took me back to some of the ratings the Jays were getting in their 2015/2016 peak. In 2016 the Jays averaged over 1M per game for the entire season. 78 games over 1M viewers! (link)

AFAIK the highest rated Jays game during that time was ALCS Game 6 v. Kansas City which landed at 5.12M average on SN. That's Canadian team-in-Stanley Cup Final territory. World Cup Final territory. :haha:

Those Stanley Cup ratings point to what I've been saying about Canada no longer being "an NHL country no matter who is playing". We're more a "local NHL team country" or maybe a "Canadian NHL team country" at this point. Unlike as I like to say where no matter who is playing, in non-pandemic times "the boys" still pack the sports bars to watch NFL football because they're fans of the league.

JHikka Oct 2, 2020 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 9062052)
The Canadian sports landscape is far more diverse than it was even 20 years ago. Itt's much better having options but it will be interesting to see what viewership is like when a Canadian NHL team makes the Stanley Cup Finals. Will it be similar to what we saw when Vancouver made it, will it be higher, or will it fall short of that? Despite the slow gradual decline of hockey I suspect the numbers will still be good. The question for me is how the numbers will compare to Raptors viewership during the 2019 NBA Finals.

For reference:
Vancouver Stanley Cup Finals (2011): between 5.4M and 8.5M
Raptors Finals (2019): between ~3M and 7.7M
Jays ALDS & ALCS (2015): between ~3M and 5.1M

The only events to outdraw a Canadian SCF is Olympics. If Toronto made the SCF you'd probably see numbers approaching 11M or higher and the Habs would probably get a fair shake at 9-10M or higher. Perhaps i'm underestimating on both accounts. The Men's Hockey Gold Medal Game from 2010 was north of 16.5M. If the Raptors Finals series went seven games i'd imagine it would have outdrawn the Vancouver SCF final on the backend but drawn less on the front end.

suburbanite Oct 2, 2020 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9062063)
Those Stanley Cup ratings point to what I've been saying about Canada no longer being "an NHL country no matter who is playing". We're more a "local NHL team country" or maybe a "Canadian NHL team country" at this point. Unlike as I like to say where no matter who is playing, in non-pandemic times "the boys" still pack the sports bars to watch NFL football because they're fans of the league.

I think that's more due to the nature of the NFL and football in general. Football has the highest proportion of non-local fans watching each game due to both the importance of each game once a week, and the fact they're all on one day (the big ones anyway). It's a lot easier to get a guy in Seattle to tune into the one 8:30 game on Sunday night between Dallas and Philadelphia than it is to get the guy in Vancouver to care about the Leafs vs. Sens playing 1/82nd of their season on a Tuesday night. The NFL is a perfect marketing machine built to capture the entire national audience. Watching NFL redzone on Sunday is almost like a caricature of what sports has become.

I don't even think many die-hard football fans in Manchester really care to tune into a random Chelsea or Arsenal games as a comparison.

MonctonRad Oct 3, 2020 3:20 AM

A socially distanced "sellout crowd" for the Wildcats at the Avenir Centre for the QMJHL home opener. The Cats unfortunately lost to the Charlottetown Islanders 4-2.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...03e6cba5_b.jpg

Yes, I went to an honest to God hockey game at the Avenir Centre this evening, in the middle of a pandemic!!! :eek:

The Atlantic "bubble" allowed this to happen. Of the three CHL leagues, only the QMJHL has started. The OHL and WHL are apparently starting in the new year. The Quebec based teams are playing in empty arenas. The Maritime teams however have been allowed to have restricted seating because of our success in quelling the pandemic. The six Maritime teams will only play amongst themselves this season to maintain the integrity of the bubble. I don't know what will happen come playoff time, but this gives them about six months to figure it out.

The Avenir Centre will have the largest allowed seating capacity in the Maritime Division this season at 2,200 (N = 8,800). Scotiabank Centre in Halifax will be next with an allowed capacity of 2,000 seats.

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...06&oe=5F9EF37C
Full moon over the Avenir Centre, and the adjacent Hyatt Place Hotel in downtown Moncton.

esquire Oct 3, 2020 6:04 PM

^ Nice. The WHL says it plans to start playing in December, but that seems very iffy at this point given the high-ish numbers throughout the region and the issue that the American teams present. I'm starting to think a more realistic scenario could be intra-divisional play only.

The Manitoba Junior Hockey League, a junior A league, will be playing in front of fans starting next weekend. I'm planning to take in a game as it might be the only live hockey I see in person this season, other than my son's games.

JHikka Oct 4, 2020 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9062187)
I don't even think many die-hard football fans in Manchester really care to tune into a random Chelsea or Arsenal games as a comparison.

I'd argue this point I think. I know plenty of fans of specific teams that will tune in to other big matches involving rivals. United fans probably aren't tuning in to Fulham & Sheffield United but they'll be watching Chelsea & Tottenham. IMO, anyway.

Coverage of footy in England on your typical Saturday can be equally as chaotic as NFL Redzone, if not more so given the sheer number of teams on offer (they'll cover league games, so four leagues covering 80+ teams, most of whom play at the same time on the same day). You're correct, though, in the way that the NFL is set up to maximize the importance of games.

Regardless, what we're seeing right now is sports moved from Spring -> Fall losing audience base and the NFL continuing to chug along. More evidence of why the NHL & NBA shy away from September starts.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 3:01 PM

NBA finals ratings down 50% with Lakers and Lebron in them, Stanley Cup ratings lowest since 2007, NFL ratings down between 11% to 38% a game depending on matchup this year. The combination of no fans in stands giving games far less energy on tv,tv market flooded with all sports playing the same time and a presidential election and massive amounts of social justice/woke messaging turning off many conservative fans has made the sports market very different than what it once was.

esquire Oct 4, 2020 3:19 PM

^ It's funny that people are less interested in TV sports given that there are generally fewer entertainment options now than usual.

I probably watched more of the Stanley Cup playoffs than I have since the early 1990s (excluding the year the Jets went to the WCF)... it didn't feel like the absence of fans really made any difference to me. I thought the NHL did a bang-up job with everything.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 3:28 PM

will be interesting if the ratings slide continues or even if the market share lost is permanent what sort of tv deals (NHL in canada), NBA, NFL and MLB get next time around if they are no longer the ratings monsters they once were where networks would just throw money no matter the cost at the leagues.

JHikka Oct 4, 2020 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9063330)
NBA finals ratings down 50% with Lakers and Lebron in them, Stanley Cup ratings lowest since 2007, NFL ratings down between 11% to 38% a game depending on matchup this year. The combination of no fans in stands giving games far less energy on tv,tv market flooded with all sports playing the same time and a presidential election and massive amounts of social justice/woke messaging turning off many conservative fans has made the sports market very different than what it once was.

You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out. NFL Week 3 figures were equal to 2019.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire
It's funny that people are less interested in TV sports given that there are generally fewer entertainment options now than usual.

I think what we're seeing is a simple oversaturation of options. We've never seen this many sports on all at once. In a single week i'm watching tennis, F1, NHL, NBA, MLS, NFL, EPL, CPL, IPL...

EpicPonyTime Oct 4, 2020 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9063373)
You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out. NFL Week 3 figures were equal to 2019.

The NHL/NFL perhaps, but the NBA's decline this year is due to the lack of intrigue. Everyone knows who is going to win and I think there's likely a sense of Lebron fatigue amongst viewers given how many times he's been in the championship in the past decade.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 9:44 PM

Wondering if there are any numbers out of NBA finals ratings in Canada this year with the Raptors out? In the U.S numbers just came out for game 2 of the finals and get this ratings are down 68% that is the least watched NBA finals game ratings in NBA history! Those thinking the NBA was on the cusp soon of overtaking the NFL as the most popular sport in North America well yeah that ain't happening when they are going head to head right now and you have Lebron and the Lakers in the final and people just tune out in droves.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wda26jDoKjU

elly63 Oct 4, 2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9063373)
You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out

You've come up with some whoppers in the past to justify your agenda but this one is venturing into Flat Earth Society and Climate Change Denial territory.


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