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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Dominion301 Oct 14, 2021 3:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9420952)
Yeah, I don't see the hassle of serving SEA - YVR traffic even worth the bother of the fifth-freedom flight given the distance involved.

It's about 250km by road. There are any number of better options for travellers (road/rail) and enough existing air competition to make it extremely marginal from a business case point of view.

According to this article, SQ will have 5th freedom rights: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...-route-yvr-sin

However, as of now, you cannot book a YVR-SEA flight on SQ’s website.

thenoflyzone Oct 14, 2021 4:16 AM

SQ confirmed on Instagram they will not sell seats on YVR-SEA-YVR.

Dailyhive is far from a credible source for such things.

casper Oct 14, 2021 5:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9423354)
SQ confirmed on Instagram they will not sell seats on YVR-SEA-YVR.

Dailyhive is far from a credible source for such things.

More likely.SQ has the rights they have just decided it’s not worth the effort.

If you look at most of the agreements Canada has signed fifth freedom is fairly common.

hollywoodcory Oct 14, 2021 1:05 PM

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...-South-America

AC's going to serve EZE via GRU instead of SCL. Also YUL-GRU return is similarly timed to YYZ instead of a daytime return.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021...East-and-India

Quote:

"Our schedule will enable convenient onward travel through our Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Calgary hubs to and from our global destinations. Start planning ahead and book with confidence. We are sincerely looking forward to welcoming you onboard."
Do my eyes deceive me or did they actually refer to YYC as a hub in a international service presser. I don't remember the last time they used 'Calgary' and 'hub' in the same sentence. :haha:

thenoflyzone Oct 14, 2021 2:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9423480)

AC's going to serve EZE via GRU instead of SCL. Also YUL-GRU return is similarly timed to YYZ instead of a daytime return.

That daytime return was awful for connections. The long layover in GRU is needed to pick up as many passengers as they can, and to optimize connections in YYZ/YUL.

Great to see YUL-GRU restarting, year round no less. Seems the EZE tag will originate with the flight number and frame from YUL as well.

YUL-DEL will be year round as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9423480)
Do my eyes deceive me or did they actually refer to YYC as a hub in a international service presser. I don't remember the last time they used 'Calgary' and 'hub' in the same sentence. :haha:

Me neither. Probably a few years ago now.

Alexcaban Oct 14, 2021 6:47 PM

Looks like YUL-ALG didn't make the cut.

Dominion301 Oct 14, 2021 9:42 PM

On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146

Quote:

Up to a million passengers per year are expected to travel through the airport by 2023, up from 70,000 a year in 2019, according to the region's projections.
That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

Calfan12 Oct 15, 2021 9:46 AM

British Airways (BA) on November 12, 2021 will begin using the Airbus A350-1000 between Vancouver YVR & London Heathrow (LHR) 1 daily & it’s the 1st A350-1000 direct flights✈️for Western Canada.

Innsertnamehere Oct 15, 2021 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424128)
On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146



That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

YHM was almost at a million in 2019 IIRC and more than likely would have been well above it in 2020 if not for the pandemic. I imagine it’ll continue to outpace YKF, if even only slightly.

casper Oct 15, 2021 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424128)
On the heels of Flair, YKF are planning to double the size of their terminal (which means it will still be small, but now a more reasonable size to handle multiple 737s a day): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ghts-1.6211146



That would mean Flair will triple in size at YKF and/or they attract another airline. That would make them bigger than YHM. Seems lofty.

They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2021 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9424612)
They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

2019's 70k pax = WS & WG

Yeah when biz traffic returns, a YOW-YKF route would make a lot of sense. I know the reincarnation of Air Georgian have stipulated they want to do so on CRJs and or DH8s. It could also be a target for a daily Flair flight to connect two bases.

Dominion301 Oct 15, 2021 6:18 PM

YOW's September pax stats:

Sector / Sep-20 / Sep-21 / % Change
Dom: 44,068 / 172,778 / +292.1%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 44,068 / 172,778 / +292.1%

Sector / YTD 2020 / YTD 2021 / % Change
Dom: 917,080 / 658,957 / -28.1%
TB: 163,093 / 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 168,382 / 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 1,248,555 / 658,957 / -47.2% - Will need to average 113,681 pax/month in Q4 to hit 1 million in 2021 - will almost certainly happen. Will need to average 234,852 pax/month in Q4 to surpass 2020's total - not likely even with the vaccine passport.

The meaningful indicator these days
Month-Over-Month Change
Sector Aug-21 / Sep-21 / % Change
Dom: 207,745 / 172,778 / -16.8%
TB: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
Int'l: 0 / 0 / #DIV/0!
TTL: 207,745 / 172,778 / -16.8%
Avg/Day: 6,701 / 5,759 / -14.1%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2019
Dom: 773,914 / -80.6%
TB: 0 / -100.0%
Int'l: 0 / -100.0%
TTL: 773,914 / -84.8%

hehehe Oct 15, 2021 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9424612)
They also had at some point WestJet service to Calgary and Sunwing to sun destinations. Flair is not the only game in town at YKF.

On and off over the years they have had smaller regional aircraft doing runs to Ottawa mostly supporting the tech sector. That has usually been a point to point service from one of the independent regionals.

WS YKF-YYC still operates :)

casper Oct 16, 2021 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9424881)
2019's 70k pax = WS & WG

Yeah when biz traffic returns, a YOW-YKF route would make a lot of sense. I know the reincarnation of Air Georgian have stipulated they want to do so on CRJs and or DH8s. It could also be a target for a daily Flair flight to connect two bases.

In the 90s there was a division of Pem-Air that did the route with a King Air.

Pem-Air bread and butter route was YTA-YYZ in partnership with Canadian and CP. A route that has yet to come return. I did in many times in 90s. That one is long gone never to return.

nname Oct 16, 2021 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9423534)
That daytime return was awful for connections. The long layover in GRU is needed to pick up as many passengers as they can, and to optimize connections in YYZ/YUL.

Great to see YUL-GRU restarting, year round no less. Seems the EZE tag will originate with the flight number and frame from YUL as well.

Not really sure what AC's long term plan is...

For the two weeks for Dec-Jan 2022
Code:

AC 90        77W        D        YYZ - GRU
AC 92        -        -       
AC 94        333        2357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        789        1357        YUL - GRU - EZE
AC 98        333        146        YUL - BOG

Then for the rest of Jan 2022 till March:
Code:

AC 90        789        D        YYZ - GRU
AC 92        789        257        YYZ - SCL
AC 94        333        2357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        788        357        YUL - GRU - EZE
AC 98        333        146        YUL - BOG

Then the summer 2022 schedule:
Code:

AC 90        77W        D        YYZ - GRU - EZE
AC 92        789        1357        YYZ - SCL
AC 94        788        1357        YYZ - BOG
AC 96        789        357        YUL - GRU
AC 98        788        246        YUL - BOG

So EZE is winter seasonal from YUL and summer seasonal from YYZ? They weren't quite sure what to do with South America yet?

[EDIT] Checked the booking site, so only 4 of the 7 weekly flight from YYZ during the summer will continue to EZE. The other ones, along with the 3 flights from YUL, will remain at GRU.

thenoflyzone Oct 16, 2021 2:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9425265)
Not really sure what AC's long term plan is...


So EZE is winter seasonal from YUL and summer seasonal from YYZ? They weren't quite sure what to do with South America yet?

[EDIT] Checked the booking site, so only 4 of the 7 weekly flight from YYZ during the summer will continue to EZE. The other ones, along with the 3 flights from YUL, will remain at GRU.

Maybe the S22 plans aren't finalized yet. Either way, it doesn't really matter where the EZE tag originates.

The goal is the same. Use both YYZ and YUL flights coming into GRU to feed your onward tag to EZE.

AC has always struggled with EZE. They tried going non stop a few years ago, it didn't work, so they reverted back to a one stop via SCL. This seems like another attempt at making the route work. Leveraging feed from both your east coast hubs might do the trick. Similar to what they are doing with MXP. That's something they couldn't do via a single flight from YYZ to SCL.

Dominion301 Oct 16, 2021 3:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9425216)
In the 90s there was a division of Pem-Air that did the route with a King Air.

Pem-Air bread and butter route was YTA-YYZ in partnership with Canadian and CP. A route that has yet to come return. I did in many times in 90s. That one is long gone never to return.

Pem-Air's YOW-YKF route was branded as Trillium Air and operated with a J31. 2x on weekdays and 1x on Sundays. After they shut down, Alberta-based QuikAir replicated the same schedule also with J31s...until they shut down. The route was routinely 'full' but was usually weight restricted to only 15 pax. QuikAir's bread & butter was YXD to YYC when YXD was still permitted to handle flights with up to 10 pax seats. As I recall, the huge oil price pike in 2008 did them in.

Calfan12 Oct 16, 2021 5:38 PM

WestJet possibly might add direct flights✈️ between Calgary & Thunder Bay again at some point? Previously it was operated during the Summer.

In the CBC article mention,the airline is looking into it.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...tjet-1.6170207

JakeLRS Oct 16, 2021 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere (Post 9424522)
YHM was almost at a million in 2019 IIRC and more than likely would have been well above it in 2020 if not for the pandemic. I imagine it’ll continue to outpace YKF, if even only slightly.

Westjet has been starting to neglect YHM again with the main carrier and through Swoop.

Here is an example of the YYC route with fares in November:

YHM-YYC: 3x weekly | Cheapest fare: $275
YKF-YYC: 5x weekly | Cheapest fare: $95
YYZ-YYC: Several Daily | Cheapest fare: $115

Westjet has such a monopoly at YHM that they can essentially charge whatever they want on the YYC route. I've been a victim of travelling to YKF instead because of the cheaper fares (I used flair instead).

In regards to Swoop, they have been more focused on providing YYZ with more routes and frequencies with YHM only getting what's leftover. I mean fair enough, it's a busier airport. But YHM does have demand for these routes.

Maybe Swoop will make a comeback next summer at YHM; they were going to offer flights to St. Johns, Moncton, Charlottetown before the pandemic. They were also going to offer Sun routes year-round such as Las Vegas, Cancun, Montego Bay, and Florida. But assuming the luck of YHM, they'll all go to YYZ instead.

hehehe Oct 16, 2021 8:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9425537)
Westjet has been starting to neglect YHM again with the main carrier and through Swoop.

Here is an example of the YYC route with fares in November:

YHM-YYC: 3x weekly | Cheapest fare: $275
YKF-YYC: 5x weekly | Cheapest fare: $95
YYZ-YYC: Several Daily | Cheapest fare: $115

Westjet has such a monopoly at YHM that they can essentially charge whatever they want on the YYC route. I've been a victim of travelling to YKF instead because of the cheaper fares (I used flair instead).

In regards to Swoop, they have been more focused on providing YYZ with more routes and frequencies with YHM only getting what's leftover. I mean fair enough, it's a busier airport. But YHM does have demand for these routes.

Maybe Swoop will make a comeback next summer at YHM; they were going to offer flights to St. Johns, Moncton, Charlottetown before the pandemic. They were also going to offer Sun routes year-round such as Las Vegas, Cancun, Montego Bay, and Florida. But assuming the luck of YHM, they'll all go to YYZ instead.

It's interesting. WS originally had YHM as their eastern base and all but abandoned it for YYZ (except the YYC route). Now again for WO YHM was supposed to be the eastern base but now they're moving towards YYZ once again.


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