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esquire Mar 22, 2020 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8870041)
Apparently Nolinor was chartered by the Canadian government to repatriate Canadians from Morocco, on board a B732, a day prior to the AC flight.

It flew YMX-YYR-KEF-SNN-CMN-SNN-KEF-YYR-YUL, 2 days ago.

Frame used was C-GNLN, an ex. Royal Air Maroc bird. What are the odds !

https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/

That must have been quite an adventure, flying a milk run route from Africa on a nearly 40 year old 737-200.

Djeffery Mar 22, 2020 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8870041)
Apparently Nolinor was chartered by the Canadian government to repatriate Canadians from Morocco, on board a B732, a day prior to the AC flight.

It flew YMX-YYR-KEF-SNN-CMN-SNN-KEF-YYR-YUL, 2 days ago.

Frame used was C-GNLN, an ex. Royal Air Maroc bird. What are the odds !

https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/

Is there a shortage of widebodies at AC or WS right now? Seems strange to charter a 732 for that.

whatnext Mar 22, 2020 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8868968)
AC repatriation flight tomorrow. First of many, no doubt. CMN-YUL with a 450 seater B77W. Passengers will need to pay 1272$ +tax per person to be on the flight.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6710168/c...orocco-flight/

And no doubt we will hear sob stories in the media about how they were "gouged".

Leisure Travel isn't a right.

kwoldtimer Mar 22, 2020 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8870092)
And no doubt we will hear sob stories in the media about how they were "gouged".

Leisure Travel isn't a right.

Despite the complaints, I've not seen anything to indicate that airlines raised the prices of their flights. I suspect that many people who got advanced booking fares are now upset at the high cost of last-minute tickets.

Djeffery Mar 22, 2020 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8870092)
And no doubt we will hear sob stories in the media about how they were "gouged".

Leisure Travel isn't a right.

My daughter was looking at a trip to Morocco last summer, and that price AC is quoting for the relief flight isn't too far off what the direct AC flight to Montreal was. Much cheaper options if you wanted to tour various European airports along the way.

casper Mar 22, 2020 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8870073)
Is there a shortage of widebodies at AC or WS right now? Seems strange to charter a 732 for that.

It sounds like this was a private corporate charter. Not a government sponsored/run flight. At that point it may come down to the number of people involved and relationship between the airline and the company that needed the flight.

Djeffery Mar 23, 2020 1:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8870518)
It sounds like this was a private corporate charter. Not a government sponsored/run flight. At that point it may come down to the number of people involved and relationship between the airline and the company that needed the flight.

That would make sense. If it wasn't full, say 2 people max per bank of 3 seats, it wouldn't be terrible I guess. Wonder how long it took with all those stops.

whatnext Mar 23, 2020 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8870645)
That would make sense. If it wasn't full, say 2 people max per bank of 3 seats, it wouldn't be terrible I guess. Wonder how long it took with all those stops.

The news said 440 people on the Morocco flight, so not much distancing going on there!

casper Mar 23, 2020 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8870686)
The news said 440 people on the Morocco flight, so not much distancing going on there!

Two different flights.

Air Canada run a Boeing 777-300 as part of a government charter. Air Canada operates the aircraft in two configurations with either 400 and 450. Only difference is the ratio of business to economy seats. Sounds like they needed the high density version. That is a lot of people in a very cramp economy section. The premium economy and business section are quite nice.

The second flight was operated by Nolinor on an aircraft with 110 seats. That was a private charter.

thenoflyzone Mar 23, 2020 10:55 AM

There is going to be more flights to Morocco, and also flights to Peru, Ecuador and Spain, apparently.

Acajack Mar 23, 2020 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 8870092)
And no doubt we will hear sob stories in the media about how they were "gouged".

Leisure Travel isn't a right.

I, at least, don't have enough information to judge if these Canadians in Morocco (and elsewhere) were unlucky victims trapped by circumstance (and have been trying unsuccessfully to get out via their own means since the crisis became extreme a week or two ago) or if they simply didn't want to cut their trip short, waited too long and now want the government to bail them out.

Any idea, anyone?

Acajack Mar 23, 2020 11:25 AM

Air Transat is laying off two thirds to three quarters of its staff.

casper Mar 23, 2020 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8870907)
I, at least, don't have enough information to judge if these Canadians in Morocco (and elsewhere) were unlucky victims trapped by circumstance (and have been trying unsuccessfully to get out via their own means since the crisis became extreme a week or two ago) or if they simply didn't want to cut their trip short, waited too long and now want the government to bail them out.

Any idea, anyone?

Given there is 400 of them on one flight and likely more flights I think it is hard to lump them all into a one category. Likely a mix.

This event moved very quickly and may just have gotten ahead of them. On Sept 11, I was on a business trip to Copenhagen. Finished up my meeting a bit earlier walking back to the hotel found it odd there were people in from of a store standing there watching these aircraft hitting a building and figured it was a new movie or something hitting a building. Was not until the next day did I realize what had just happened. When in a foreign country, with a foreign language it is easy to be a few days behind major events.

casper Mar 23, 2020 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8870910)
Air Transat is laying off two thirds to three quarters of its staff.

Wonder if this will impact the plan Air Canada has to buy Air Transat.

kwoldtimer Mar 23, 2020 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8870904)
There is going to be more flights to Morocco, and also flights to Peru, Ecuador and Spain, apparently.

Also to Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras. Who knew that El Salvador was a winter holiday hot-spot for Canadians? ;)

kwoldtimer Mar 23, 2020 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8871062)
Wonder if this will impact the plan Air Canada has to buy Air Transat.

They may have paid too much .....

Acajack Mar 23, 2020 4:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8871058)
Given there is 400 of them on one flight and likely more flights I think it is hard to lump them all into a one category. Likely a mix.

This event moved very quickly and may just have gotten ahead of them. On Sept 11, I was on a business trip to Copenhagen. Finished up my meeting a bit earlier walking back to the hotel found it odd there were people in from of a store standing there watching these aircraft hitting a building and figured it was a new movie or something hitting a building. Was not until the next day did I realize what had just happened. When in a foreign country, with a foreign language it is easy to be a few days behind major events.

Foreign Minister François-Philippe Champagne was on TVA this morning and was generally giving the benefit of the doubt to most stranded Canadians.

He said that many of them tried to get back home as soon as they were told to do so but that it's been tough to get flights back. He said many have been trying non-stop for a week to get flights back home but haven't had any luck.

thenoflyzone Mar 23, 2020 4:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8871062)
Wonder if this will impact the plan Air Canada has to buy Air Transat.

The Competition Bureau should be out with its recommendations this week i heard.

As both companies have approved the deal, if AC wants out, they will need to pay the penalties involved in order to cancel the deal. They will probably try to argue a "Material adverse effect" to wiggle themselves out of the deal, but I don't think it will work, as this thing impacted everyone, not just TS.

That being said, AC wont be in a hurry to make a decision. It depends how long this pandemic lasts. If by this time next year, business is back to normal, and TS is still alive, it would have been a wasted opportunity by canceling the deal. Plus it opens the door for another company to grab TS.

We'll see what happens. One thing to remember. The big airlines are parking planes and laying off staff. They're not going bankrupt. Plus, governments will step in and bail them out if need be. It would be a gamble for AC to wiggle out of the deal and hope TS goes bankrupt, as that might not happen anytime soon.

Dominion301 Mar 24, 2020 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8871123)
The Competition Bureau should be out with its recommendations this week i heard.

As both companies have approved the deal, if AC wants out, they will need to pay the penalties involved in order to cancel the deal. They will probably try to argue a "Material adverse effect" to wiggle themselves out of the deal, but I don't think it will work, as this thing impacted everyone, not just TS.

That being said, AC wont be in a hurry to make a decision. It depends how long this pandemic lasts. If by this time next year, business is back to normal, and TS is still alive, it would have been a wasted opportunity by canceling the deal. Plus it opens the door for another company to grab TS.

We'll see what happens. One thing to remember. The big airlines are parking planes and laying off staff. They're not going bankrupt. Plus, governments will step in and bail them out if need be. It would be a gamble for AC to wiggle out of the deal and hope TS goes bankrupt, as that might not happen anytime soon.

Even with the TS purchase, AC still have about 7 billion in liquidity..and that's before any new borrowing. Until a month ago, AC was in its best shape in its entire history.

thenoflyzone Mar 24, 2020 3:18 AM

Some interesting updates on airlineroute. Starting with AC.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...as-of-22mar20/

Quote:

Latest adjustment as of 0655GMT 23MAR20 as follows.

For the week of 05APR20, Air Canada operates 62 weekly International flights departing from Canada, compared to 555 weekly (based on 15MAR20 OAG), while US service sees 371 weekly flights departing from Canada, compared to 1549.

International service
Montreal – Frankfurt 7 weekly 787-8
Montreal – London Heathrow 3 weekly 787-8
Montreal – Paris CDG 7 weekly A330-300
Toronto – Bridgetown 2 weekly A319
Toronto – Cancun 2 weekly 767-300ER (Air Canada rouge)
Toronto – Delhi 7 weekly 787-9 (5 weekly 20APR20 – 29APR20)
Toronto – Frankfurt 7 weekly 787-9
Toronto – London Heathrow 7 weekly 787-9
Toronto – Mexico City 4 weekly A319 (Air Canada rouge)
Vancouver – Delhi 6 weekly 787-9 (4 weekly 20APR20 – 29APR20)
Vancouver – Hong Kong 3 weekly 787-8
Vancouver – London Heathrow 4 weekly 787-9
Vancouver – Tokyo Narita 3 weekly 787-9

US service
Montreal – Boston 3 daily CRJ900
Montreal – Chicago O’Hare 3 daily Embraer E175
Montreal – Fort Lauderdale 1 daily 767-300ER (Air Canada rouge)
Montreal – Houston 1 daily Embraer E175
Montreal – Los Angeles 1 daily A319
Montreal – Newark 2 daily Embraer E175
Montreal – New York LaGuardia 3 daily Embraer E175/CRJ900
Montreal – Orlando 1 daily A319 (Air Canada rouge)
Montreal – Washington Dulles 1 daily CRJ200
Montreal – Washington Reagan 2 daily CRJ200
Toronto – Boston 3 daily Embraer E175
Toronto – Chicago O’Hare 3 daily Embraer ERJ175
Toronto – Denver 2 daily Embraer E190
Toronto – Fort Lauderdale 1 daily 767-300ER (Air Canada rouge)
Toronto – Houston 2 daily Embraer E190
Toronto – Los Angeles 2 daily 767-300ER/787-9
Toronto – Newark 3 daily Embraer E175
Toronto – New York LaGuardia 3 daily A320
Toronto – Orlando 1 daily A319 (Air Canada rouge)
Toronto – San Francisco 2 daily 767-300ER
Toronto – Washington Dulles 2 daily Embraer E175
Toronto – Washington Reagan 3 daily Embraer E175
Vancouver – Denver 1 daily CRJ900
Vancouver – Los Angeles 2 daily A320
Vancouver – San Francisco 2 daily A319/CRJ900
Vancouver – Seattle 3 daily Dash8-Q400
Air France, from 29 March to 21 April, will cancel all long haul service to Canada except to YUL, with 3x weekly B77W service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...-stop-service/

Lufthansa, from 29 March to 19 April, will cancel all long haul service except to 6 destinations, one of which is FRA-YUL, 3 x weekly A333 service.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...00gmt-23mar20/

Last TS A310 flight now moved up to march 30/31. YYZ-MAN-YYZ.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...te-march-2020/


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