So you want to see it dead right? Just so we know where you stand.

Once the Argos die then the New England Patriots and Philadelphia Eagles will both move to Toronto and there will be a Super Bowl parade every year! :upload_71700:

Just a bit of trivia, one of my cousins was the GM for the Philadelphia Eagles (he started Ronald MacDonald House) and his brother was an owner of the Pats.

It was used when they signed Jermaine Defoe a few years ago from the English Premier League and Michael Bradley (US Player from Roma), which fizzled when Defoe went back after 1 season

He was for the first few games

For which they can thank Montreal ad agency Sid Lee

• Video Link

Shit de marde.

Yes they did, Jermain Defoe, an accomplished British player whose still playing in the English Premier League.

I thought there was a fourth guy and I was pretty sure it wasn't Dunfield. Anyway, point being, big turnoff for me, when trying to grow the game to Joe Sixpack Canadian outside the GTA.

The commentators are mostly former players on Canadian teams. In the early days of MLS in Canada, TFC hired many marquee British players. Nowadays it's more diverse.

Carl Robinson is a former TFC player and current Whitecaps coach, Stephen Caldwell is a former TFC player as well. When players retire, they either become coaches or commentators, there are career opportunities beyond playing. We'll likely see Bradley and Giovinco become commentators in the future.

Yes. Jack, Wileman, and Caldwell have all spent significant time in Canada. Jack and James Sharman go back to the old The Score days for what seems a decade ago.

The feed for the World Cup game itself is the international English feed which by default is British announcers. It is not BBC/ITV coverage. TSN usually does this for World Cup and currently does it for things like F1 and tennis.

RDS has their own studio crew but also provide RDS commentary for World Cup, as they also do for tennis and F1.

Vast majority of people I've watched World Cup games this year with don't care about the studio crew. They're just talking heads regardless of what accent they have. Majority of the time people are talking or getting food/beers during halftime.

This is all beside the fact that Jack and Caldwell do provide phenomenal breakdowns and analysis of matches and goals. Jack is arguably one of the best in the business at it. I'd rather viewers potentially learn the sport from them than potentially feeling more spoken to by them based on them being Canadian or not.

We don't care about the studio crew here. We do talk about the Cokes on the desk and if they are ever going to take a sip. :haha:

^ As someone who is not knowledgeable when it comes to soccer, to my ears a soccer panel automatically sounds more knowledgeable and authoritative when it's stocked with people who have various accents from around the UK. :)

LOL i've been waiting for one of them to have a sip from those Coke bottles.

I like their transition from Orange Juice in the morning to Coke bottles in the afternoon.

The TSN crew is ok. Actually, much prefer the Sportsnet Soccer crew of Sharman, Dichio and Forest.

I really enjoy the British commentators. They make everything so dramatic and over the top. Really adds to the spectacle. Its fun.

I got my son to laugh suggesting that one of them should just chug the bottle and do an Elf burp.

I must have missed it. Is he any good?

Now that Canada will have a team at the 2026 World Cup it would be nice if we actually got a Canadian broadcast with a Canadian panel. They could start with 2022 as a test run. I suppose that's too much to ask and we'll end up with a British and/or US feed.

Sportsnet had a Canadian panel for this World Cup. They're not broadcasting games but their panel was Canadian (aside from Sharman IIRC, who's been in the country for over a decade anyway).

Yes he's Good, was good in Toronto too but our team really sucked back then and management was quite dysfunctional.

I like Wileman, the rest I could care less about. I think if you want to sell the game to the non immigrant you need a guy like Forrest who has been there and done that.

The non-immigrant probably isn't the target audience, though.

A lot of people already watch soccer in Canada. I think it's less of an issue of turning them onto it and more creating a better environment to develop the sport as a whole. A decent number of people watch EPL & MLS and a good number are watching the World Cup.

Anecdotally, to add to this, the bar I was watching England/Croatia at in Halifax was absolutely packed and the crowd was mostly under 35. England playing helped a lot, but most bars I saw were busy and rowdy. Place was electric.

fyp

https://www.bellmedia.ca/pr/press/25...nding-success/

3.9M average for World Cup Final.
2.5M average for ENG/CRO semifinal.

ENG/CRO was most streamed match with 155K.

Stampede gallops to second-highest attendance of all time

CBC News · Posted: Jul 16, 2018 1:08 PM MT | Last Updated: July 16

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...pede-1.4748765

"The Stampede said 1,271,241 passed through its gates this year, up more than 56,000 from last year. The number was 150,000 short of the event's all-time record, when 1,409,371 people attended the Stampede's centennial in 2012."

Here I thought acceptance and understanding of accents are one of our defining moments from are continental neighbours where even the slightest accent confuses and the TV gods rectify it with subtitles.

This discussion is better suited for this thread rather than the CFL thread, so my reply will be here.

Firstly, Ottawa won't be getting an MLS team (or an NBA, MLB team...) so the entire end of that discussion is moot. Ottawa will however be getting a CPL team (presumably) next year, so we'll see how their attendances will line up. Currently the Fury garner anywhere between 3K and 7K for matches (and upwards of 9K/10K for playoffs/one-off matches). CPL is aiming for 6K/7K which should be attainable in Ottawa.

Secondly, we do have numbers to compare MLS & CFL attendances in select Canadian cities and they have been trending towards relatively stable MLS attendances and declining CFL attendances. Montreal is a basketcase in best case scenarios:

City:........................(CFL) / (MLS)
Vancouver 2014: (28,011) / (20,408)
Vancouver 2015: (21,290) / (20,507)
Vancouver 2016: (21,056) / (22,330)
Vancouver 2017: (19,858) / (21,416)
Vancouver 2018: (19,862) / (21,493) (to date)

Montreal 2014: (20,679) / (17,421)
Montreal 2015: (21,430) / (17,750)
Montreal 2016: (20,378) / (20,669)
Montreal 2017: (19,522) / (20,046)
Montreal 2018: (18,108) / (18,066) (to date)

Toronto 2014: (17,791) / (22,086)
Toronto 2015: (12,432) / (23,451)
Toronto 2016: (16,380) / (26,541)
Toronto 2017: (13,914) / (27,647)
Toronto 2018: (13,163) / (26,302) (to date)

And, finally:
City:...............(CFL) / (NASL/USL)
Ottawa 2014: (24,295) / (4,488)
Ottawa 2015: (23,433) / (5,164)
Ottawa 2016: (24,664) / (5,521)
Ottawa 2017: (24,523) / (5,427)
Ottawa 2018: (22,549) / (4,740) (to date)

Throughout this time the Senators attendance has fluctuated (which I personally blame on the arena location).

It's not unfair to assume that the entrance of the MLS into a market may have some impact on CFL attendances but I personally don't think the markets crossover that much. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that people are taking off football hats and putting on soccer hats in the next motion. There's quite a few soccer fans in Canada, it's mostly just a matter of tapping into that potential.

In saying all that I think it's natural that if a new, shiny objects enters into a market that the currently existing objects may feel some what of an initial shock as consumers are potentially split with options.

The REDBLACKS are seeing some slightly declines in numbers this season, though, if we're nitpicking. That 22K used to be a very reliable 24K since essentially their inception into the league. There are a few empty corners at REDBLACKS games, i'm being offered free REDBLACKS tickets this season...

The Fury team, for the sake of prosterity, have a number of Canadians on their roster (in the rumoured buildup to their switch to CPL next season). It would help if they were playing against Calgary or Winnipeg instead of North Carolina or Cincinnati.

Agree, it should also be said there are many football fans that are not CFL fans, this is where MLS soccer and CFL are very similar. If a tenth team comes to the Maritimes I can guarantee a large number of that crowd will be converted, unfortunately I can't say the same thing for Toronto.

Overlap.

NHL and CFL are basically two different times of the year. MLS would overlap with CFL. And I think people would want to experience the more "major" league. Even if the calibre of CFL football player is higher than the calibre of MLS soccer player. It's psychological in many cases.

And I'm just saying RedBlacks would lose some fans, not all of them. I've never been to a game there but I'm guessing there are many casual fans who go because it's something to do, not necessarily because they're true fans of the team.

I've sat with the Red Patch Boys at BMO several times. A couple of season ticket holders I've talked to there admitted they weren't real soccer fans. They just loved the atmosphere of the chanting and flag waving and throwing streamers when that wasn't prohibited. If somehow the Fury did become an MLS team (never know, could happen in 25 years) and they got some lively supporter groups going, I can see that taking away a portion of the casual sports fan who attends a couple RedBlacks games a year.

Now, if there were several major pro teams to choose from in a market, even if they are not conflicting in the same time of the year, people only have so much money to spend on sports entertainment or any form of entertainment for that matter for any given year.

I personally only attend like two games a year now between Jays, Argos, Raps, Leafs, FC. I've never been to a Wolfpack or Rock game. Those sports don't really tickle my fancy. Plus if you're in to junior hockey you got Oshawa and Sauga. And formerly Brampton and I wanna say St. Mikes was around same time too. And there's the Marlies and Raptors 905 too.

Then there's the one-offs. I bought two tix for Duke vs UofT at the Hershey Centre next month. Just attended Global T20 cricket a few weeks ago at a cost $65 + gas. Also got Pan Am Games, gold cup, WC of Hockey and so on in the past two or three years.

Last year I said I can only go to the first weekend of Rogers Cup tennis because that's free. But still gotta spend on gas and $20 parking. And I was planning on dropping $50 for the Canadian Open but thankfully I got some free corp. tix from my bro in law who happens to bank at RBC.

Then there's Honda Indy. I've only been three times but that's because I love F1 and have done Montreal a good ten times now. Also done various racing categories at Mosport.

Been on many roadies for NFL, MLB and college. Tonnes of Bills fans come from Southern Ontario. I think I heard somewhere 20% of attendance comes from Ontario. Lots of them from the GTA.

Plus, some Oakville people but more so Burlington people will go to TiCats games over Argos. I see the t-shirts. They even sell TiCats shirts in a couple of Burlington stores I used to frequent when I lived there. So TiCats draw some western GTA people. The markets overlap to an extent.

And then there are the guys in the GTHA who go to one or two NFL/College games each year at Steelers, Lions, Bills, and UM and occasionally ND and MSU because those are manageable drives and have cheap hotels if you're willing to stay by the airport or 25 minutes away. If you have easy access to that, you can become hooked on those leagues and not the CFL. Most CFL markets don't have that problem.

Oh, and a lot of this involves bringing the family! So can triple any prices mentioned.

Anyway, point is, many, many options out there. Not just for sports, but recreation and entertainment in general.

I often see that but don't buy it. Aren't TFC's main rivals the Impact and Caps? Surely not the NY RedBulls.

Went to the REDBLACKS/Riders game in Week 2 and the people I was with kept saying that they were excited to be going down south later this year to watch real football. They were only at the game because the tickets were free. I have friends of mine in the GTA that are Bills STHs who wouldn't touch a CFL game if their lives depended on it. :shrug:

All sports have these casual fans to a degree. It's mostly just a matter of figuring out what % of the crowd are diehards and what % are casuals.

Obviously the sport market is more split up in Toronto than Ottawa...we only really have minor-league options in Ottawa for things like soccer/baseball but they're still enjoyable. It's still crazy to me that a two-year-old rugby team playing out of Lamport can nearly outdraw the Argos at BMO at the same time, but here we are.

Caps aren't rivals. TFCs main rivals are Montreal, NYCFC, Seattle and to a lesser extent Atlanta.

Sorry that just doesn't pass the common sense test, they would go to a game that they hold in contempt? Methinks you're up to some shenanigans. How many EPL fans wouldn't be caught dead at MLS?

Holy cow you guys are stretching it today.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence, but yes....the power of free tickets and an excuse to drink is strong with some. :tup:

See:

What am I stretching? Argos had 11K and Wolfpack had 7K at the same time within blocks of each other.

"can nearly outdraw the Argos at BMO at the same time"

Is that the new math?

I forgot to add one more sport that draws interest. Horse Racing. Albeit that's more for the gambling aspect of entertainment not the actual race itself like for the Kentucky Derby or perhaps Queen's Plate.

There's Woodbine (home to 2/3 of the Canadian Triple Crown), Ajax, Mohawk, Flamboro and Georgian Downs. All within the GTA or the periphery. Some serious sports entertainment dollars go towards those places. Okay that's only a fraction of the people who might have otherwise spent money going to an Argos game but if you say that for all the other options then it starts to add up. Hell I just went to Flamboro Downs yesterday after fishing at Christie Reservoir since it's across the street.

I know the kind of people you're talking about.

I was once at Woodbine betting on some horses but also following the Italy England Euro 2012 game on the TVs there. It went to PKs. So virtually everyone crowded around to watch. But there were two losers behind me that kept talking to each other saying how dumb soccer was and what losers these people are for watching. Yet there they were watching the PKs like everyone else when they could have just gone to the other screens to watch the OTB races from all around the world when there's a break between races at Woodbine.

One thing not touched on is the changing demographics in Canada. Football is bit penetrating into the immigrant communities. "Footie" however has a ready base. As a greater percentage of the population is made of visible minorities, and Football continues to fail to reach them we will continue to see numbers drop vs "Footie" which should show an increase due to this being a game they know.

Father and Son bonding over a sports game for example that the Canadian Born child may go to a soccer game with dad as dad took them vs a football game where dad didn't know or care about the game and therefore never took the son. Over time that son grows up watching and going to soccer games vs football games.

Week 4 CFL:

HMT/SSK: 741,400
EDM/TOR: 477,900
BC/WPG: 466,800
OTT/MTL: 393,900

http://3downnation.com/2018/07/12/cf...assive-number/

Week 6 CFL:

SSK/HMT: 689,300
BC/OTT: 500,200
MTL/CGY: 452,900
WPG/TOR: 421,200

http://3downnation.com/2018/07/25/cf...-provide-bump/

Was anyone following the Canadian Open? I think anyone who had even the most casual interest just knew DJ was going to win before it even started. Twice runner up. Married to Paulina Gretzky. Rocking the 99 Oilers jersey on the Wednesday. Talking about all the support he gets up here. Playing about 45 minutes from his father in law's hometown. #1 player in the world. Potentially the last ever Open at Glen Abbey.

Everything just seemed like it was lining up for him to win. I've never had that feeling before for a golf tournament and have never read so many of the same comments online.

Will the Canadian Open ever leave Toronto?

Damn. Just realized I posted my last comment in wrong thread. Meant to put in Sports in Canadian Culture, which I have now done.

It was played in Montreal in 2014, Ancaster in 2012, and Vancouver in 2011.

So yes.

The better question is: Will a Canadian ever win the Canadian Open? Last to do so was Pat Fletcher in 1954.

Hamilton(Ancaster) next year.

Now that the Open is being moved to an earlier date and not right after the British Open, it'll attract a better field. So it will in theory be harder for a Canadian to win it since so many of the top golfers in the world will be in attendance.

DJ only plays every year because of who his father in law is. And Bubba plays because his wife is from Pickering.

Mike Weir came damn close. Losing in a playoff. When we produce another player of that calibre, I like our chances.

Golf Canada CEO pleased with Canadian Open ahead of location and date change
July 29, 2018
4:53 PM EDT

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/sports-...nd-date-change

Applebaum thinks this year’s Canadian Open — which saw a four-way tie atop the leaderboard between world No. 1 Dustin Johnson, Whee Kim, Byeong Hun An and Kevin Tway heading into the fourth round — is the perfect sendoff for the storied course.

“Beer sales are up, food sales are up, merchandise sales are up and attendance will be up,” said Applebaum, who predicted that total attendance for the week would be over 80,000. “For me, it’s a win across the board. Spectacular.”

Hamilton will host the 2019 and 2023 events, with Applebaum believing the host for 2020 will be announced within the next two or three months. His intention is to keep the men’s national championship in the Greater Toronto Area, while the CP Women’s Open will continue to move back and forth across the country.

Well there's the answer to my question "will the Open ever leave The Toronto area" and the answer is confirmed to be NO. Why not call it the Greater Toronto Open then?
Somehow the US Open moves all over the country.

I've read a lot of articles about the non-rotation of it over the past couple of years but have yet to ascertain a definitive reason for why it loses money when it's elsewhere. Then again, I'm not a big golf fan so I have no idea if organizers pay a hosting fee or what.

Golf Canada I'm guessing has to pay for all the temporary infrastructure at the course and the security and split much of the revenue with the host club. Other than that I'm not sure what other costs there are. There is of course the prize money, in this case $6m USD, but I'm not sure if that comes from the PGA via TV money or from the organizers.

I previously read that the Australian Open is rotated. I just looked it up, it's actually worse than Cdn Open. The last 12 have been in Sydney area, rotated among 5 clubs. 3 of 4 prior to that were in Melbourne. Have to go back to 2001 to Gold Coast to find another region.

It's practically all Syndey and Melbourne in the decades prior to that. Perth or Adelaide, etc. are almost no existent based on my rudimentary search (I wasn't about to click on every club on the wikipedia page).

So Canada's and Australia's Opens are very similar, which shouldn't be all that surprising given the similarities of our geographies and populations.

US has way more people and more of a golfing culture. Britain has the tradition, while also having more people in a far smaller land mass.

Come to think of it, it must be Golf Canada that puts up the prize money of $6M. RBC as title sponsor I'm sure contributes a big chunk of that.

As RBC is HQ in Toronto, their execs probably told Golf Canada to keep it nearby so they can schmooze with other execs without having to travel. It's already inconvenient enough that they have to do it in July for a few days instead of spending that time in their Muskoka cottage. And that is another reason the tournament is being moved to June. Their kids are still in school anyway so they can't take off to Muskoka for several days at a time. Note: I read something to this effect somewhere.

Air Travel, population density, and sponsorship reasons are why they keep the Canadian Open in the GTA.