Simple, Nova Scotia is VERY un-business friendly.

Yes Uranium mining did have negative impacts in the past, but with proper rules it could provide huge returns, yet the province without looking into after many decades decides for us that no we aren't going to allow that.

Why not invest seriously into renewable resources in power (tidal, wind farms in the water where no NIMBY can say squat) and sell it to the US who are looking for greener, cleaner ways. Even get Danny to fork out and send the Churchill falls lines through NS.

Its endless, but as usual we elect (not that there is overwhelming choices) people who have no vision for us.

Look at HRM by Design that cap'd height to keep everyone happy. Think of all the tax revenue that would be created if density was allowed in the core, with all the associated costs of benefits of less need for expense related items due to urban sprawl.

-

Not so much. The PCs were in power for almost a decade, and almost half of that was as a majority government. Even after becoming a minority government, they wouldn't fall unless the issue being voted on is a confidence motion... so no, they couldn't be 'voted out at any time'. Budgets are, by default, confidence moments, but this is where compromise comes into play. The budget is still drawn up by the sitting government, not the opposition parties - it is still their responsibility to ensure that the provinces finances are sound. If they have to concede a point for the sake of compromise, then they should understand that they may well have to cut from somewhere else. The last government didn't seem to grasp this and made many poor fiscal decisions.

The PCs were still in the driver's seat, and still have to be accountable for bad decision making.

I'll agree that Dexter is guilty of over-promising, but how many politicians aren't? And even if he hadn't made those promises, he was likely going to get elected. We've had 10 years of Tory governments, and people wanted a change. The Liberals were too weak this time around. And I still can't understand why you think the federal government is justified in 'punishing' the province just because it didn't elect a Conservative government. How in the hell is that justifiable? It sounds like a system more at home in Iran than Canada. The federal government is responsible to all Canadians. You don't win votes or respect by poking people in the eye, but that's exactly what you're saying should happen.

My predication is that in the short term the Nova Scotia financial revenue will improve because of increasing natural gas prices (this has occurred over the past couple of months) and the resulting higher royalties (I am quite sure that NS does receive offshore royalties). The NDP will probably get credit for the improving revenue stream and take credit for balancing the books next year even though they have nothing to do with world natural gas prices.

I thought Rodney MacDonald was doing a good job as Premier and was promoting Halifax as a financial center. The Nova Scotia economy has actually done better than most of the rest of Canada in withstanding the current recession. I think Rodney MacDonald got a raw deal when he lost the election and NS is the one that will lose from it. I don't think Dexter will have the same personal appeal as Rodney MacDonald when it comes to attracting business to the province.

This editorial in today's Herald sums up what happened with the province's finances. This isn't the right forum for it, so I won't post the full content of the piece, but it's worth a read.

I'm gonna quote the most relevant section, though:
In other words, everything looked good, but the provinces financial house was built on sand.

This is an interesting article. However, the Nova Scotia deficit seems tiny (fortunately) compared to the Ontario deficit, Canadian Federal deficit and US deficit ( http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...-than-expected ). It seems like the Ontario financial house was built on quick-sand. Unfortunately, this might be a drag on the Nova Scotia economy through lower transfer payments as Ontario increasingly becomes a have-not province.

Yes, Ontario has been in a bad spot since the early 90s. The economic downturn during the late 80s, mismanagement by the NDP, and then PC governments, the rising dollar and heavy dependence on manufacturing and exports to the US haven't helped.

Nova Scotia's deficit is small in comparison, but so is our population and our economy.

Maybe we should start a topic on provincial finances in the business and politics sub-forum.

Maybe you guys could continue this discussion elsewhere, so we can get back to discussing the possibilities of a future stadium in HRM?

I agree that in the long term Dexter won't have great appeal. I don't disagree with having to decrease spending costs etc (the real debate is how to do it, not whether we have to do it), but where I am pissed at Dexter is that he either lied or was stupid when he promised to be able to balance the budget with no spending cuts or tax increases. That was simply idiotic since even the average joe could see that this was coming. It may have helped them get elected in the 1st place, but in the end they lose all credibility.
[there you go Barrington_South... I told you I would be happy to criticize the NDP when they deserved it! *grin*]

I don't agree though that Rodney got a raw deal. He may have done some things right (e.g. promoted a CBD in Halifax), however the view from the ground was him stumbling from one issue to another, and basically just reacting to crises rather than leading.

At the end of the day, I can't stand any of them. Dexter is a liar, Rodney was a buffoon, and it is easy for MacNeil sitting in the cheap seats to say whatever he wants when it is really just that he can criticize based on the fact that the Libs haven't had to make a real policy decision in over a decade.

Back to the topic of a stadium. This quote from Wishblade was in the Central Library section:

However, they are talking about a 12,000 - 15,000 seat facility (this was in the call for proposals). This isn't going to benefit the Mooseheads since their owner Bobby Smith already said that they don't need a larger Metro Centre to play in. So going to a bigger facility might mean a few extra concerts. However, if they are planning to spend $150 million then why not go much bigger and have an enclosed stadium with 30,000 bench style seats that will allow for events that even a new Metro Centre won't be able to host; large concerts for example (maybe get U2 to come to Halifax since they would be able to pack at least 40,000 into such a facility). And why not build it so that it can be a convention hall also (example AlamoDome). Now I have said that I don't really want a dome however, an enclosed stadium with lots of large windows for natural lighting would change my mind. This really would complement the Metro Centre whereas having the Metro Centre and a new Metro Centre will do little for Halifax. The only way this would make sense would be if Halifax was going for an NHL team which it really isn't ready for.

Yeah, I agree that there doesn't seem to be much of a reason behind constructing a new Metro Centre aside from the fact that they want a shiny new building. The library is falling apart and is 60 years old, and there is basically no stadium at all in Halifax.

A new covered stadium could be just as good for events as a new arena and would allow for a new semi-major sports team. A gold-plated Metro Centre for the Mooseheads would be kind of sad.

This weekends Uteck bowl should be an opportunity to bring attention (via the media) to the need for a new stadium.

I really think that Saint Mary's should be included in trying to gain support for this stadium since they could be an immediate beneficiary if one were to be built.

There are many colleges in North America where the football stadium is several blocks away from the actually school itself so I don't see that a problem if the forums land location was chosen.

You could probably put a 20,000 seat stadium at SMU. Rip out the existing grassy knoll and rebuild. Wrap around ends blocking out the low rise and part of the tower. At the Gorsebrook Lounge end build an executive seating area at the top level c/w media facilities. This would be connected to the Gorsebrook lounge with and elevator. Of course there would be a sky Gorsebrook lounge in the executive area. Everybody can take the bus or walk to the stadium.

I always favoured something like this, although I'm not sure how much space there is. If I recall correctly it's pretty tight between the bleacher side of Huskies stadium and the rest of campus. I would think SMU and HRM should be able to work something out to upgrade the existing facilities as an interim solution of sorts.

The other problem with this location, is politically there is no way in hell you would get a twenty thousand seat stadium in this neighbourhood.

You could probably get 10,000 on the side of the broken up bleachers and then another 10,000 around the rest.

People in the neighbourhood would just have to live with it.....a penalty or sorts for helping kill the Commonwealth games.

There may be a worse location for a stadium, but I'm unsure where it would be. East Preston, perhaps. SMU needs all the real estate they can get, and you do not want to plunk a large stadium down in the middle of the prime south end residential area.

The only sensible location is the DND lands near the corner of Windsor and Young.

20,000 isn't that large and the area isn't that prime. University, hospitals, grain elevator, rooming houses, ugly apartment buildings. A university stands a better shot at getting funding.

It seems like SMU doesn't have adequate lands for future expansion. If they support a stadium in another part of Halifax then the current stadium lands could be used for academic buildings. I really don't see a stadium in this part of town. There would an outcry over having large concerts; I can't image the Paul McCartney concert in this part of town. That is my reason for preferring the DND Willow Park area over the South End area. (I actually prefer the skate park area near the Citadel Hill but everyone on this forum seems to think that this is a no-go.)

If a new stadium was built off-campus, and the Huskies played their games out of there, SMU would be wise to still keep Huskies Stadium as is, maybe with slightly better seating, as a practice field. Don't forget there's also a running track around that field which is an asset.

Anyway, the Uteck Bowl is this weekend. Should be interesting to see how well that is attended. If I was going to be around Saturday, I probably would be there myself.

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25 and you've got a deal.

Seriously, this is sort of how Toronto got the Skydome. People started chanted that they wanted a dome and the politicians obliged:

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Centre

If you are serious about getting a stadium, this is the sort of thing that you will have to do. However, just don't go as far as wanting an extravagant facility like the Skydome (Rogers Centre).

From the Herald:

Uteck Bowl not tied to SMU

CHRIS COCHRANE
Sat. Nov 21 - 4:46 AM




PHIL CURRIE SURPRISED many this week when he mused publicly about the possibility of the CIS national football semifinal, now known as the Uteck Bowl and staged at Huskies Stadium every two years, moving around the AUS conference in the near future.

The Atlantic University Sport executive director tossed out that suggestion during a pre-Uteck Bowl interview, while discussing the condition of Huskies Stadium with CTV Atlantic’s Paul Hollingsworth.

Obviously, Currie was also speaking with conference-building on his mind.

The AUS brain trust is aware that any new interlock deal with the Quebec conference could be the last one. If that happens, the AUS will eventually be back to a four-team conference without interlock, a scenario no one finds attractive.

There’s pressure to entice at least one more school to take on the expense of building a football program and eventually give the AUS a more stable five-team operation.

What better way to attract more interest than to showcase the conference’s biggest game, which has been exclusively a Halifax event for decades, in different markets?

The market that best fits that plan is Moncton, with its spanking new stadium and the growing popularity of football in New Brunswick.

"Moncton is an attractive opportunity," Currie said on Wednesday. "We are also looking for some expansion in New Brunswick. It could be a catalyst."

Currie, who has a habit of successfully tossing new ideas into the public forum to land feedback, said any decisions on Uteck Bowl future sites will be decided by the conference members.

"It (Uteck Bowl) is an (AUS) association event. It’s directed by the members of the association. We do have members interested in hosting it outside of Halifax. We have to take those inquiries seriously."

Currie said changing economics make it possible to present a more sound business case for hosting such events in markets outside Halifax.

He expects a profitable Final 6 in Sydney next spring, the first time that AUS basketball event hasn’t been held in Halifax in over two decades. That could give hope to smaller market schools, such as Acadia or St. F.X., to perhaps someday host a Uteck Bowl.

"A market like Moncton, St. F.X. or Acadia, when you go to those markets the business case changes," Currie said. "It’s not as expensive to run an event in those markets as in Halifax."

Saint Mary’s athletic director Steve Sarty can quickly make a strong case for keeping the game in Halifax.

"It was all a bit of a surprise to me," Sarty said. "And it was a little bit upsetting. We’re not surprised to hear that our stadium needs to be replaced. A new stadium will come to Saint Mary’s; it’s just a matter of time."

But the stadium issue aside, does Sarty expect a fight to keep the Uteck Bowl in its longtime home?

"I don’t think fight is the right word. But we need to probably talk about the bigger picture. Once this (Uteck Bowl) is done and we see where we end up next week, we’ll start talking about, in two years’ time, are we going to have the Uteck Bowl back here and what do we need to do to make sure it happens?"

Is it a good idea to consider a move?

That really depends on the financial figures, the demand for the Uteck Bowl in other markets and whether a change can help lead to expansion. Presently, the AUS has a good thing going at Saint Mary’s. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t also work well in other AUS markets.

The need for a new stadium has got some media attention today. This story is also on News 95.7 this morning (Saturday). They will be broadcasting the game live, along with a tape delay on TSN. Fenwick16 is right, this is the time for citizens of Halifax to demand a new stadium during and after an event that would benefit from a new stadium. They are expecting over 7,000 people, somebody should sit in the derelict roped off section with a sign saying we need a new stadium.

T HIS
S TADIUM
N EEDS
REPLACEMENT

:previous: Maybe this sign could make sportscentre. :haha:

I will be watching on TSN. I hope to see this sign.

I sent an email to Jerry Blumenthal on the HRM council about a week ago to ask if he would interested in setting up a trust fund for a stadium after seeing this article in The Coast
( http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/jerry...ent?oid=995642 ) which states:

"He also expresses frustration at the secrecy of the Commonwealth Games bid, although he would like to see a new stadium built."

This article was printed on September 25 2008 prior to him being re-elected.

I should point out that I do not know him and I am not currently a HRM resident and (not unexpectedly) I haven't received a response. His contact information is on this link: http://www.halifax.ca/districts/dist...1.html#contact

That was a good find Fenwick16. The rest of us should all e-mail Jerry Blumenthal. His district includes DND willow park. A politician could gain some political points by championing a new stadium. What about Sue Uteck? SMU is in her district, so I'm fairly certain that she would be for a new stadium. If a new stadium were to be built it could be named in honour of her late husband. It could be called Larry Uteck Stadium.

I also posted a comment on Chris Cochrane's article in the herald, with a link to the petition. http://thechronicleherald.ca/Sports/1153886.html

That is an excellent sign. It could be hammered in the ground in the grassed over section.

Even this TD Waterhouse Stadium for U of Western Ontario in London, a city the size of Halifax, would be better than the Huskies stadium crap we are stuck with right now. This TD stadium only cost $10 million to build in 2000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Waterhouse_Stadium

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/...a257b85dd4.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/o...l/15657209.jpg

http://leapathletics.com/images/tdstadium.jpg

It holds 8,000, expandable to 16,000 (similar to the stadium Moncton is building for cheap) and looks like it would almost fit where Huskies stadium is. Although I think building a 25,000 seat or larger stadium makes more sense.

This stadium also hosted a CFL game back in 2002.

This forum seems to have all the Canadian university stadiums with pictures:

http://www.cisfootball.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6064


This picture shows what room they have to work with at SMU.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1875/air7sh3.jpg

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf4...72&lvl=2&sty=b

:previous:

That aerial photo cinches it for me.......there just isn't the footprint at SMU to have a decent sized stadium, even if you lose the track. You will just have to look somewhere else.

I still think Gorsebrook would be a good choice for a penninsular location.

I agree it looks way to cramped to try to jam that many seats in that field. Gorsebrook looks good, as long as people won't complain about losing some greenspace.

Well, aside from it being a very disappointing game, Huskies Stadium actually looked good. Nice crowd too.

It certainly was a frustrating game to watch. However based on the fan support, Halifax really deserves a better stadium. The question to me is whether it will simply be a SMU stadium or an HRM stadium meant to be used by the entire community.

Willow park would be an ideal site for a stadium. However, even if the site could be obtained it no doubt would take twenty years of red tape. The most logical site is Mainland North Common. It is already zoned recreational, there are allweather fields etc. and the space is available. It would be seen from the BI-HI and has good highway connections. Shuttle busses could run from downtown - a constant round trip until the event is over. Funding may be easier to get in that setting and there would be less outcry. The HRM councillor for the area , MLA and Sport and Rec dept for both HRM and NS would need to be on board.

Now I still prefer the location on Commodore Drive near Dartmouth Crossing, where the new soccer and football fields are located.

My concern with the Dartmouth Crossings and Halifax Mainland Commons sites is the transit time for someone living in Cole Harbour to get to the Halifax Mainland Commons or vice versa for someone living in Spryfield to get to Dartmouth Crossings by bus. Halifax already has good transit to the downtown area so this is the best location. There appears to be a vacant lot at the northeast corner of Windsor and Young Street. It isn't quite large enough for a stadium though, so they would need to demolish a couple maintenance sheds on the DND Willow Park land. Maybe they could do a land swap in another part of the HRM in exchange for this land.

This area has good connections to highways also. There is what appears to be a supermarket next to the vacant lot so it might not even be owned by the DND. Maybe it is already city land since part of Young Street cuts across it(?). All of my observations come from Mapquest which might be out of date. For all I know there might already be construction on this site. Does anyone know?

That lot is owned by the DND. Right now its still vacant and there a tiny little 'No Trespassing' sign on the corner of it.

Thanks for the information. This seems like an ideal site if the HRM could get this plus some additional land.

Is this the corner your talking about?

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1224/willowparkcf.jpg

:previous:
Yes this is the one. I envision a stadium with the length running parallel to Windsor Street. So a couple of maintenance sheds would have to be demolished on the adjacent land north of this. I don't think that a stadium would fit in the other direction.

What are your thoughts on this location?

I would hardly call Windsor and Young "downtown" - travelling to this area from Cole Harbour or Spryfield (your examples) would require at least one transfer, just as travelling to Dartmouth Crossing or the Mainland Common would. There's no one place, aside from the downtown core (Citadel anyone?), where it's going to be totally convenient for everybody coming from every location by transit.
As far as highway access, all three sites are in good locations.

However I think you guys are honestly dreaming if you ever thing there's a chance of a stadium going into the Young/Windsor area - unless of course if you wanted the Forum demolished.

I think this would work, I wonder how much of DND's land it would need? Would the superstore be in the way? I know that on either side of windsor street there is a lot of empty underutilized space (i.e. parking lots). I think if it fits there the central access is definitely a plus.

At one time there was talk of filling in the harbour downtown to build a stadium on the waterfront. There is also the cogswell interchange but I think all of us would like to see that turned into skyscrapers at some point for more density in the downtown.

I think the fact that organizers of the 2014 commonwealth games bid chose Shannon park probably says something about the costs and time associated with finding land on the pennisula. What we need really is some event to host that would bring federal and provincial funding for a stadium. I know they already screwed up the commonwealth games, but look at the 2011 Canada games, and the infrastructure that it is bringing (aquatic centre). We could build a stadium to host the Vanier Cup or something like that. Ideas? :shrug:

Here was our site and stadium that never happened.

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/7273/shannonpark.jpg

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/193...lthstadium.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9624/stadiumcount.jpg

Note if you remove the north and south end zone seating you have about a 35,000 seat stadium.

I agree completely that Dartmouth Crossings or Mainland Commons would likely be easier to obtain land in. However, in the long run a more central location would be better. Looking at the map, that site is only about 1.5 km from the Halifax Commons where the concerts were held. So this is within walking distance of the Halifax Commons. It fact this site is only about 1.5 km from buses crossing the MacDonald Bridge and there are several bus routes in the area.

I doubt that the city would want to demolish the Halifax Forum since it would eliminate a couple of ice pads which the city needs. However, if they could obtain the site north of Young and Windsor street then people going to concerts and football games could use the parking lot at the Forum.

One reason for selecting this location would have been to allow room for all the other facilities. And since a track is included, the stadium takes up even more room and has poorer site lines for football and other events. Another thing that I would worry about is that there might be cool winds coming off the harbour. However, you have a good point about the selection committee selecting this site. They would have an idea about the cost involved. It would be closer to the main transit lines than Dartmouth Crossings or Mainland Commons locations.

I envision SMU using the stadium so the Forum area would be closer to the SMU campus.

I think evidence post- bid withdrawal would indicate that nobody involved had any clue what anything would cost. You are quite correct about the cold, damp location -- it is a very poor site because of that.

It doesn't matter how ideal it is, my point is that the land you're talking about is owned by National Defence, and is actively used by the military. This isn't a situation like the old runway 16/34 at Shearwater which was no longer used and could be sold to Canada Lands, this is actually in use.
The idea that DND is just going to part with the land and move all of their existing transport, maintenance and supply buildings to some other location is silly.

Just out of interest I overlaid the McMahon Stadium in Calgary on the DND lands north of the Halifax Forum (based on Google Earth images at the same resolution). It appears as though the only way to fit a stadium on these lands would be to go with a significantly smaller stadium than McMahon Stadium. If the second tier of seats were removed then it might just barely squeeze onto this area without going past the supermarket. I will try it on a few other areas (Dartmouth Crossings, Mainland Commons and Shannon Park) some other time.

Here it is:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3...faxforumar.jpg