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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

wave46 Sep 4, 2019 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8677231)
AC and LH don't really compete though, they are part of the A++ metal neutral JV, so it doesn't particularly matter who serves the route. That's why every time we have seen a LH group carrier move, AC fills their place.

So, other than the variety of tails seen at YYZ, there's effectively no change. Unless you have an antipathy to AC and really liked Swiss/Austrian.

I imagine this is a strategy of LH Group focusing their constituent airlines on what works best for the group overall.

whywhyzee Sep 4, 2019 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8677311)
So, other than the variety of tails seen at YYZ, there's effectively no change. Unless you have an antipathy to AC and really liked Swiss/Austrian.

I imagine this is a strategy of LH Group focusing their constituent airlines on what works best for the group overall.


That, or my feeling that this and Austrian's removal from YYZ were more the work of AC trying to secure more own metal Europe flying. While they make money just the same no matter the equipment, if they want their YYZ transit hub idea to really work, they need own metal coverage of basically everywhere.

It would be tough for EK to be what they are if they yielded say Australia to Qantas with their JV, not much of a transit hub for a company if you rely on the services of others.

Blows for YYZ though, getting really bland over here...

thenoflyzone Sep 4, 2019 9:29 PM

It wasn’t just AC’s work.

AC and LH group planned this together. It's all about maximizing TATL hub-hub flying by sending the right airline/aircraft gauge on the right route.

YUL-VIE was unserved until this summer. An OS B763 is a better fit on the route compared to an AC mainline A333 or B788. Hence the switch up this summer.

YUL-BRU clearly could have used more lift. Hence SN entering the frey next year. AC takes over YYZ-BRU, so no harm, no foul.

It's a win win for the A++ joint venture between AC and LH group.

And YYZ is far from bland....2 less airlines wont change that. You want bland, go to YYC, YOW, YEG, YQB, etc.....

Cage Sep 4, 2019 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8677420)
if they want their YYZ transit hub idea to really work, they need own metal coverage of basically everywhere.

THIS.

The YYZ Global Hub works best if the hub airline takes care of the pax throughout their journey from USA to YYZ to Europe. YUL has much more O&D YUL traffic.

Case in point, last month I did a 16 minute International to Domestic (ITD OSS) connection BWI-YYZ-YYC with wife and kid in tow. No way that would have happened if it was split PNR.

thenoflyzone Sep 5, 2019 1:33 AM

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but if you book VIE-YUL-YYC through AC or OS, you should get a single PNR, even though it’s 2 different airlines operating each flight, and you should still have access to OSS at YUL to make the connection as hassle free as possible.

One of the benefits of codeshare flights is a single PNR being issued, or at least that’s what I think. It’s been a while since my last ITD flight, so can’t remember. As you said, YUL is mostly O&D and with all the airlines/destinations we have here, I rarely have the need to connect anywhere to get to my destination.

hollywoodcory Sep 5, 2019 1:25 PM

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2019-164

Pacific Coastal has received approval to fly to the US for WS Link.

thenoflyzone Sep 5, 2019 2:41 PM

I just remembered.

I had posted last year, on Aug 2, 2018, to be precise, about rumors that Brussels airlines was going to cancel YYZ and BOM.

Seems like both rumors came true.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6511

This further solidifies my point that this shake up wasn’t just AC’s doing.

p_xavier Sep 5, 2019 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8678482)
I just remembered.

I had posted last year, on Aug 2, 2018, to be precise, about rumors that Brussels airlines was going to cancel YYZ and BOM.

Seems like both rumors came true.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...postcount=6511

This further solidifies my point that this shake up wasn’t just AC’s doing.

Good call. As long as Star Alliance carriers are solidifying their hubs, it's all good for AC.

thenoflyzone Sep 6, 2019 2:51 PM

YUL July numbers are out.

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2019_EN.pdf

Total: 2,094,675 +2.7%

Domestic 727,990 (-1.2%)
Transborder 423,622 (+1.9%)
International 943,063 (+6.5%)

YTD total: 11,779,807 +5.2%

Clear slowdown, but international still going strong. Considering YYZ was only +0.2% and YVR was -0.4% in July, I’d say YUL is doing pretty good, all things considered.

Interesting tidbit:

YVR and YUL are neck and neck in July for overall international traffic (including US): 1,374,184 vs 1,366,685

If YUL keeps this up (and with the new intl and US route announcements in Q4/2019 and 2020, they surely will), they can overtake YVR in that regard in not too long.

thenoflyzone Sep 7, 2019 1:28 AM

July stats - Canada's busiest airports

YYZ 4,904,294 +0.2%
YVR 2,609,511 -0.4%
YUL 2,094,675 +2.7%
YYC 1,756,376 +2.2%
YEG 753,764 -1.8%
YOW 442,893 -3.2%

YTD stats - Canada's busiest airports (until July)

YYZ 29,367,106 +2.6%
YVR 15,309,805 +2.0%
YUL 11,779,807 +5.2%
YYC 10,346,325 +4.1%
YEG 4,773,139 +0.9%
YOW 3,011,094 +1.8%

Zmonkey Sep 7, 2019 2:17 AM

I am surprised in the slow down in YEG. They have tons of cheap fares with Swoop, guess that didn't spur demand and compensate for some of the other loses.

On a macro level all these airports flat lining growth - product of weak economy? Fares? No 737?

wave46 Sep 7, 2019 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zmonkey (Post 8680195)
I am surprised in the slow down in YEG. They have tons of cheap fares with Swoop, guess that didn't spur demand and compensate for some of the other loses.

On a macro level all these airports flat lining growth - product of weak economy? Fares? No 737?

I think the 737MAX grounding has limited the capacity of both Air Canada and Westjet to expand summer North America flying.

The lack of expansion has probably pushed fares up somewhat, especially during the busy summer flying season.

Nicko999 Sep 7, 2019 4:50 AM

Solid growth at YUL. 2.7% in July is not too bad considering other big Canadian airports.

Also still above 5% on the year so this is good.

rbt Sep 7, 2019 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46 (Post 8680246)
I think the 737MAX grounding has limited the capacity of both Air Canada and Westjet to expand summer North America flying.


Definitely. AC has 24 and WestJet has 12, both would have received a few more since Spring. That's a lot of unusable capacity.

jmt18325 Sep 8, 2019 9:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbt (Post 8680361)
Definitely. AC has 24 and WestJet has 12, both would have received a few more since Spring. That's a lot of unusable capacity.

Air Canada would have been at 36 by now so that’s pretty significant.

jmt18325 Sep 8, 2019 9:13 AM

I’m just landing in London out of Calgary on the WestJet 787...the hard product is good but the delivery is so amateur and clunky. They made people line up in their zones for 15 minutes at the airport. The service in economy took almost 2 hours start to finish. They made us all put our seat backs up almost an hour before landing. I’m not impressed with a lot of it.

hollywoodcory Sep 8, 2019 1:37 PM

WS latest schedule update has removed the MAX until end of December.

YYZ-BOS - Reduced from 3 to 2x daily
YYC-HNL - Delayed until Dec. 29
YEG-HNL - Delayed until Dec. 28
YYC-OGG - 789 replaces some 7M8 flying in Dec. (from 3 to 5x weekly)
YEG-OGG - Delayed until Jan. 3
YYZ-PHX - Delayed until Jan.

Edit: Full details here:
https://blog.westjet.com/westjet-upd...-max-schedule/

YYCguys Sep 8, 2019 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8680963)
They made us all put our seat backs up almost an hour before landing. I’m not impressed with a lot of it.

I’m a flight attendant on the Dreamliner. Normal operational procedures call for the Captain’s announcement at top of descent (30 minutes prior to scheduled landing), followed by the seatbelt sign being turned on, and then the cabin is secured for landing at 20 minutes prior to landing (unless turbulence is expected and it might be done earlier in that case). At 10 minutes before landing, cabin crew do a final walk through before taking their jumpseats. If the pilots receive word that there’s a hold on landing due to air traffic, you might circle a bit before receiving clearance to land. That’s not Westjet’s call, so if it turned out to be an hour between the seatbelt sign and landing, about half of that is out of westjet’s Control, but procedures still need to be consistent and followed.

The Chemist Sep 9, 2019 8:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8681203)
I’m a flight attendant on the Dreamliner. Normal operational procedures call for the Captain’s announcement at top of descent (30 minutes prior to scheduled landing), followed by the seatbelt sign being turned on, and then the cabin is secured for landing at 20 minutes prior to landing (unless turbulence is expected and it might be done earlier in that case). At 10 minutes before landing, cabin crew do a final walk through before taking their jumpseats. If the pilots receive word that there’s a hold on landing due to air traffic, you might circle a bit before receiving clearance to land. That’s not Westjet’s call, so if it turned out to be an hour between the seatbelt sign and landing, about half of that is out of westjet’s Control, but procedures still need to be consistent and followed.

London is notorious for holds due to air traffic, so that wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

thenoflyzone Sep 9, 2019 5:37 PM

The US DoT has granted Vietnam Airlines a foreign air carrier permit, with stopover rights in TPE, NGO and KIX, and beyond rights to YVR, YYZ and YUL.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...permit-460639/

Quote:

The airline will be permitted to fly to Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Seattle and Dallas-Fort Worth. It can also continue flights to Canadian cities Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.


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