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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

MonctonRad Oct 3, 2020 3:20 AM

A socially distanced "sellout crowd" for the Wildcats at the Avenir Centre for the QMJHL home opener. The Cats unfortunately lost to the Charlottetown Islanders 4-2.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...03e6cba5_b.jpg

Yes, I went to an honest to God hockey game at the Avenir Centre this evening, in the middle of a pandemic!!! :eek:

The Atlantic "bubble" allowed this to happen. Of the three CHL leagues, only the QMJHL has started. The OHL and WHL are apparently starting in the new year. The Quebec based teams are playing in empty arenas. The Maritime teams however have been allowed to have restricted seating because of our success in quelling the pandemic. The six Maritime teams will only play amongst themselves this season to maintain the integrity of the bubble. I don't know what will happen come playoff time, but this gives them about six months to figure it out.

The Avenir Centre will have the largest allowed seating capacity in the Maritime Division this season at 2,200 (N = 8,800). Scotiabank Centre in Halifax will be next with an allowed capacity of 2,000 seats.

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net...06&oe=5F9EF37C
Full moon over the Avenir Centre, and the adjacent Hyatt Place Hotel in downtown Moncton.

esquire Oct 3, 2020 6:04 PM

^ Nice. The WHL says it plans to start playing in December, but that seems very iffy at this point given the high-ish numbers throughout the region and the issue that the American teams present. I'm starting to think a more realistic scenario could be intra-divisional play only.

The Manitoba Junior Hockey League, a junior A league, will be playing in front of fans starting next weekend. I'm planning to take in a game as it might be the only live hockey I see in person this season, other than my son's games.

JHikka Oct 4, 2020 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9062187)
I don't even think many die-hard football fans in Manchester really care to tune into a random Chelsea or Arsenal games as a comparison.

I'd argue this point I think. I know plenty of fans of specific teams that will tune in to other big matches involving rivals. United fans probably aren't tuning in to Fulham & Sheffield United but they'll be watching Chelsea & Tottenham. IMO, anyway.

Coverage of footy in England on your typical Saturday can be equally as chaotic as NFL Redzone, if not more so given the sheer number of teams on offer (they'll cover league games, so four leagues covering 80+ teams, most of whom play at the same time on the same day). You're correct, though, in the way that the NFL is set up to maximize the importance of games.

Regardless, what we're seeing right now is sports moved from Spring -> Fall losing audience base and the NFL continuing to chug along. More evidence of why the NHL & NBA shy away from September starts.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 3:01 PM

NBA finals ratings down 50% with Lakers and Lebron in them, Stanley Cup ratings lowest since 2007, NFL ratings down between 11% to 38% a game depending on matchup this year. The combination of no fans in stands giving games far less energy on tv,tv market flooded with all sports playing the same time and a presidential election and massive amounts of social justice/woke messaging turning off many conservative fans has made the sports market very different than what it once was.

esquire Oct 4, 2020 3:19 PM

^ It's funny that people are less interested in TV sports given that there are generally fewer entertainment options now than usual.

I probably watched more of the Stanley Cup playoffs than I have since the early 1990s (excluding the year the Jets went to the WCF)... it didn't feel like the absence of fans really made any difference to me. I thought the NHL did a bang-up job with everything.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 3:28 PM

will be interesting if the ratings slide continues or even if the market share lost is permanent what sort of tv deals (NHL in canada), NBA, NFL and MLB get next time around if they are no longer the ratings monsters they once were where networks would just throw money no matter the cost at the leagues.

JHikka Oct 4, 2020 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9063330)
NBA finals ratings down 50% with Lakers and Lebron in them, Stanley Cup ratings lowest since 2007, NFL ratings down between 11% to 38% a game depending on matchup this year. The combination of no fans in stands giving games far less energy on tv,tv market flooded with all sports playing the same time and a presidential election and massive amounts of social justice/woke messaging turning off many conservative fans has made the sports market very different than what it once was.

You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out. NFL Week 3 figures were equal to 2019.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire
It's funny that people are less interested in TV sports given that there are generally fewer entertainment options now than usual.

I think what we're seeing is a simple oversaturation of options. We've never seen this many sports on all at once. In a single week i'm watching tennis, F1, NHL, NBA, MLS, NFL, EPL, CPL, IPL...

EpicPonyTime Oct 4, 2020 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9063373)
You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out. NFL Week 3 figures were equal to 2019.

The NHL/NFL perhaps, but the NBA's decline this year is due to the lack of intrigue. Everyone knows who is going to win and I think there's likely a sense of Lebron fatigue amongst viewers given how many times he's been in the championship in the past decade.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 9:44 PM

Wondering if there are any numbers out of NBA finals ratings in Canada this year with the Raptors out? In the U.S numbers just came out for game 2 of the finals and get this ratings are down 68% that is the least watched NBA finals game ratings in NBA history! Those thinking the NBA was on the cusp soon of overtaking the NFL as the most popular sport in North America well yeah that ain't happening when they are going head to head right now and you have Lebron and the Lakers in the final and people just tune out in droves.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wda26jDoKjU

elly63 Oct 4, 2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9063373)
You should note that these are for US figures and thus don't really apply all that much to this thread. As i've pointed out previously these declining figures are more or less due to competing sports and not because of whatever theory you've decided to trot out

You've come up with some whoppers in the past to justify your agenda but this one is venturing into Flat Earth Society and Climate Change Denial territory.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9063674)
You've come up with some whoppers in the past to justify your agenda but this one is venturing into Flat Earth Society and Climate Change Denial territory.

I was going to say so myself too he seems to think Conservative sport fans don't exist or something and that ratings declines are related to any issue under the sun except for the liberal social justice messaging turning off millions of fans oh no that would never happen? He must be too cloistered with his Toronto minions to ever think outside the Toronto bubble when it comes to things as there are people and opinions outside the GTA that he never wants to hear or see and just puts the blinders on.

thurmas Oct 4, 2020 11:52 PM

Apparently Blue Jays playoff fever failed to result in even a small sneeze as Blue Jay playoff ratings did not even register in Canada.

https://torontosportsmedia.com/2020/...ation-pt-deux/

MLB?

“Regional Major League Baseball on FOX (Braves-Mets or White Sox-Reds) averaged a 0.7 rating and 1.28 million viewers last Saturday night, MLB’s smallest primetime audience on broadcast television since 2016 (Rays-Yankees: 1.02M). The game overlapped with a competing Rays-Orioles matchup on FS1, figures for which were unavailable.”

In Canada, the Jays didn’t crack the top 30 rated programs in Canada after September 6th when it was #28.

JHikka Oct 5, 2020 1:29 PM

MLB local numbers are out:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybr...er-4-for-2020/

"The Blue Jays on Sportsnet averaged 500,000 viewers in 2020, up 23% year-over-year, and reached 9.8 million Canadians (27% of the population)."

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9063674)
You've come up with some whoppers in the past to justify your agenda but this one is venturing into Flat Earth Society and Climate Change Denial territory.

A great contribution to the thread.

Surely a compacted and busy sports schedule is a better explanation than blaming SJWs for declining sports viewership in 2020. The Stanley Cup playoffs have never had to go head-to-head against the NFL before. Or simulaneously with the NBA playoffs also happening. Or simultaneously with MLB in a playoff run. Or simultaneously with the EPL. Or simultaneously with tennis majors. And when they do have to go head-to-head against these other sports in a highly competitive market? Canadian viewers are given Dallas and Tampa Bay. No wonder ratings are down. :haha:

But sure, blame the woke millennials. That explains everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9063727)
Apparently Blue Jays playoff fever failed to result in even a small sneeze as Blue Jay playoff ratings did not even register in Canada.

https://torontosportsmedia.com/2020/...ation-pt-deux/

This blog is at best rambling and at worst a collection of tweets from other people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9063686)
I was going to say so myself too he seems to think Conservative sport fans don't exist or something and that ratings declines are related to any issue under the sun except for the liberal social justice messaging turning off millions of fans oh no that would never happen? He must be too cloistered with his Toronto minions to ever think outside the Toronto bubble when it comes to things as there are people and opinions outside the GTA that he never wants to hear or see and just puts the blinders on.

If someone disagrees with your POV just attack their character. Easy and simple.

Acajack Oct 5, 2020 1:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9063686)
I was going to say so myself too he seems to think Conservative sport fans don't exist or something and that ratings declines are related to any issue under the sun except for the liberal social justice messaging turning off millions of fans oh no that would never happen? He must be too cloistered with his Toronto minions to ever think outside the Toronto bubble when it comes to things as there are people and opinions outside the GTA that he never wants to hear or see and just puts the blinders on.

I really, really doubt that politics are having any significant impact on sports viewership in Canada this year, but I most definitely believe that is likely to be part of the equation in the U.S.

esquire Oct 5, 2020 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9063998)
And when they do have to go head-to-head against these other sports in a highly competitive market? Canadian viewers are given Dallas and Tampa Bay. No wonder ratings are down. :haha:

I take your point re: the crowded TV sports marketplace this past summer and into the fall, but on that note above, you would think that by now Canadian hockey fans would have come to terms with SCFs involving two American teams as this has been the case in 21 of the last 25 years. I mean, there is a generation on the cusp of maturing without any recollection of seeing a Canadian team in the finals, let alone winning the cup.

JHikka Oct 5, 2020 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9064018)
I take your point re: the crowded TV sports marketplace this past summer and into the fall, but on that note above, you would think that by now Canadian hockey fans would have come to terms with SCFs involving two American teams as this has been the case in 21 of the last 25 years. I mean, there is a generation on the cusp of maturing without any recollection of seeing a Canadian team in the finals, let alone winning the cup.

I'd agree with this point, but I think there are some American teams that are more interesting for Canadians to watch and follow than others. Boston and Chicago making Cup runs were far better for Canadian viewers, IMO, than a Dallas or Tampa going deep. Likewise, Pittsburgh gets a lot of viewers in Canada compared to a San Jose or Nashville. Detroit and Buffalo have a decent amount of Canadian fans if they ever make runs, as well, but in the case of the latter it's been a while since that's happened.

This year's finals for Rogers was probably a worst case scenario (except for, say, the Isles instead of Tampa) but they still managed decent SCF figures despite the matchup and crowded sports market at the moment. Rogers only needs one or two deep Toronto or Montreal runs to make value on their current TV deal but we're halfway through it and they've come up pretty much empty so far.

esquire Oct 5, 2020 2:26 PM

^ I would have expected the Lightning to be of interest given the exciting style they play and the fact that they have a lot of big names that are familiar to fans. But I guess a matchup of non-traditional hockey markets can be a tough sell ;)

suburbanite Oct 5, 2020 2:29 PM

What are we even talking about here? The NFL just posted its best week 3 ratings in 6 years. What a surprise it's coming at the end of summer as people are winding down their extended quarantine getaways and new restrictions appear to be on the horizon. Anti social justice warriors must have just put away their outrage for the fall.

On one hand we have the biggest league in the world playing at its usual uninterrupted time, and on the other we have 3 leagues massively disrupted and now competing for the first time simultaneously with each other and the NFL juggernaut. What does Occam's razor tell us about the likely cause here?

JHikka Oct 5, 2020 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9064065)
What are we even talking about here? The NFL just posted its best week 3 ratings in 6 years.

Didn't you hear? People are tuning out of sports because black people are asking for rights it's crazy stuff to watch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9064065)
What a surprise it's coming at the end of summer as people are winding down their extended quarantine getaways and new restrictions appear to be on the horizon. Anti-social justice warriors must have just put away their outrage for the fall.

It's crazy how those protests really drove away all white people from watching sports this year. Truly crazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9064065)
On one hand we have the biggest league in the world playing at its usual uninterrupted time, and on the other we have 3 leagues massively disrupted and now competing for the first time simultaneously with each other and the NFL juggernaut. What does Occam's razor tell us about the likely cause here?

Black Lives Matter is why fewer people are watching sports dude I don't know what else to tell you. Politics in sports is bad but only politics I don't agree with!

:P

elly63 Oct 5, 2020 10:13 PM

The above post is the biggest joke of all considering how you have a history of cancelling other people's opinions by your deletions of posts you don't agree with. But don't let that get in the way of the agenda. It's very easy to hide in your own bubble and only allow what you want to hear when you have your finger on the delete (cancel) button.

NBA Playoff Ratings Slip As Fans Grumble That League Has Become ‘Too Political’
Kurt Badenhausen Forbes Staff SportsMoney Sep 2, 2020

...

A new Harris Poll backs Trump’s critique of the NBA, with 39% of sports fans saying they are watching fewer games. And the chief reason why? Politics. The longtime polling agency surveyed nearly 2,000 people over the weekend and gave those who identified as sports fans—two-thirds of the total—ten options to choose from on why they are watching less basketball.

“The league has become too political” was the clear choice, with 38% of respondents who identified themselves as sports fans. “Boring without fans” captured 28% of the vote while the NBA’s association with China caused 19% of sports fans to turn the dial,

JHikka Oct 5, 2020 10:36 PM

Here, i'll reply with some Canadian ratings for NBA, since this thread is about..*checks thread title* Canadian ratings, and not American:

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/...celtics-game-7

"An average of 2.65 million Canadians tuned in to the Toronto Raptors' Game 7 against Boston Celtics on Friday night, setting a new second round viewership record, according to the NBA.

Toronto's first round playoff viewership against the Brooklyn Nets saw its average audience increase by 24% compared to last year. Game 1 of the series had an average audience of 1.05 million viewers, making it the most-watched first round playoff game in Sportsnet history."

Emphasis added mine.

Whatever is happening south of the border isn't happening in Canada re: NBA ratings.

This thread isn't about US numbers. Period. :haha:

elly63 Oct 5, 2020 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9064527)
This thread isn't about US numbers. Period.

It is when YOU want it to be. Just sayin :haha:

This thread isn't about American ratings so i'll keep it short:

Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps NBA and NFL ratings are both down because they're going head-to-head not only between each other but also with other sports during critical periods in their seasons?

"Thursday’s Texans-Chiefs NFL Kickoff Game averaged an 11.2 rating and 20.54 million viewers on NBC, down 13% in ratings and 7% in viewership from Packers-Bears last year (12.8, 22.03M) but flat and up 8% respectively from Falcons-Eagles in 2018 (11.2, 18.98M).

Berklon Oct 5, 2020 11:07 PM

I dunno... are we supposed to be happy that people are turning off sports because they don't want to hear and/or don't agree that black people protesting to be treated equally - which really isn't a political issue... it's an issue of humanity.

elly63 Oct 5, 2020 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 9064552)
it's an issue of humanity.

I wish it was but I don't think it is.

JHikka Oct 5, 2020 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9064547)

Will I ever recover from this? Stay tuned next week.

---

Anyway, since people seem to be getting confused, the Raptors playoffs were up 10% this year compared to last and the Jays in total were up 23% this year. NHL couldn't compete this year for eyeballs. The NFL so far is down slightly but mostly due to competition from the NHL, which also declined due to competition from the NFL and no general Canadian performance.

NFL's first MNF was down because SCF Game 2 was also on.
SCF Game 2 was down because MNF was also on.
Raps are up because they're hot right now.
Jays are up because they're more competitive.
Make sense? :hmmm:

thurmas Oct 5, 2020 11:38 PM

Jays ratings could also be up because of no CFL this season and their fan bases are similar. Same goes for strong NFL ratings in Canada with no CFL football fans still need their fix.

As to the social justice issue melding into sports I think it turns off many fans because it is young millionaire athletes in their 20's with very little education and life experience lecturing others on very important issues that have many layers of complexity to them. I think people especially in 2020 were looking to sports as an escape from the news not more of it and last I checked these athletes were paid millions of dollars to entertain fans with their athletic ability not lecture them on politics. I much rather hear and take much more seriously the point of view of black pastors, police officers and black business owners than that of millionaire athletes who just randomly walked off the job protesting and what did that accomplish? Black doctors, police officers, business people, trades people walking off the job protesting now that is something worth listening to but oh wait they still went to work and did their job.

elly63 Oct 5, 2020 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064592)
As to the social justice issue melding into sports I think it turns off many fans because it is young millionaire athletes in their 20's with very little education and life experience lecturing others on very important issues that have many layers of complexity to them. I think people especially in 2020 were looking to sports as an escape from the news not more of it and last I checked these athletes were paid millions of dollars to entertain fans with their athletic ability not lecture them on politics. I much rather hear and take much more seriously the point of view of black pastors, police officers and black business owners than that of millionaire athletes who just randomly walked off the job protesting and what did that accomplish? Black doctors, police officers, business people, trades people walking off the job protesting now that is something worth listening to but oh wait they still went to work and did their job.

You know I really didn't want to get into this topic because the sides are so polarized and neither will cede any ground or appreciate another's point. I often don't agree with you but your post was truly inspiring and insightful. POY candidate in my opinion. The real victims are the ones not being talked about.

Berklon Oct 6, 2020 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064592)
As to the social justice issue melding into sports I think it turns off many fans because it is young millionaire athletes in their 20's with very little education and life experience lecturing others on very important issues that have many layers of complexity to them. I think people especially in 2020 were looking to sports as an escape from the news not more of it and last I checked these athletes were paid millions of dollars to entertain fans with their athletic ability not lecture them on politics. I much rather hear and take much more seriously the point of view of black pastors, police officers and black business owners than that of millionaire athletes who just randomly walked off the job protesting and what did that accomplish? Black doctors, police officers, business people, trades people walking off the job protesting now that is something worth listening to but oh wait they still went to work and did their job.

Couldn't you say the same thing when athletes lecture about donating to charities, or wanting us to honor veterans, etc? I mean, they're young millionaires athletes with little education and life experience - what do they know about cancer and other diseases or about serving their country in the military?

You don't think these black athletes have first-hand knowledge about racism? You don't think they were ever exposed to it in their lifetime? Getting pulled over by cops for nothing more than being black? Just because they make good money doesn't mean they haven't experienced what others are protesting against.

And athletes and entertainers get the most amount of exposure. That's why they're used to sell products in commercials and get people to donate to charities (which no one seems to have a problem with). Like it or not, a doctor or trades person isn't going to get nearly the same amount of exposure for any cause.

thurmas Oct 6, 2020 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9064610)
You know I really didn't want to get into this topic because the sides are so polarized and neither will cede any ground or appreciate another's point. I often don't agree with you but your post was truly inspiring and insightful. POY candidate in my opinion. The real victims are the ones not being talked about.

thank you I just say it like I see it no point trying to be popular on here I think the evidence bares it out when the NBA finals ratings are the lowest in NBA history down almost 70% this year with fans having limited access to bars and restaurants and virtually no movies or concerts to compete with for getting viewers this year as MLB and NFL still draw decent numbers right now. Go woke and go broke, still have not seen any Canadian NBA playoff ratings since the Raptors lost out to the celtics to see if the NBA is growing in popularity here or if it just a temporary blip like the blue jays surge in popularity from their playoff run 5 years ago that quickly evaporated once the jays were not as good anymore.

thurmas Oct 6, 2020 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 9064626)
Couldn't you say the same thing when athletes lecture about donating to charities, or wanting us to honor veterans, etc? I mean, they're young millionaires athletes with little education and life experience - what do they know about cancer and other diseases or about serving their country in the military?

You don't think these black athletes have first-hand knowledge about racism? You don't think they were ever exposed to it in their lifetime? Getting pulled over by cops for nothing more than being black? Just because they make good money doesn't mean they haven't experienced what others are protesting against.

And athletes and entertainers get the most amount of exposure. That's why they're used to sell products in commercials and get people to donate to charities (which no one seems to have a problem with). Like it or not, a doctor or trades person isn't going to get nearly the same amount of exposure for any cause.

I agree with your first point the other 2 points are valid but I think should be done off the court and similar to how Ali and Jim Brown handled it in the 60's where they did interviews and press conferences but they did not have it meld with their profession while boxing or playing football.

Berklon Oct 6, 2020 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064629)
I agree with your first point the other 2 points are valid but I think should be done off the court and similar to how Ali and Jim Brown handled it in the 60's where they did interviews and press conferences but they did not have it meld with their profession while boxing or playing football.

So you have a problem with pre-game/intermission presentations for charities and vets then? Do you want them to handle this stuff on their own time and not when you're trying to watch a game? Do you have an issue when the CFL keeps pushing their "diversity is strength" politics during the game? I want to know where the line is being drawn.

JHikka Oct 6, 2020 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064592)
As to the social justice issue melding into sports I think it turns off many fans because it is young millionaire athletes in their 20's with very little education and life experience lecturing others

I stopped reading here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas
still have not seen any Canadian NBA playoff ratings since the Raptors lost out to the celtics

If you're not going to read other posts in this thread with these figures then i'm not sure how to even proceed with bothering to reply to your posts in the first place. Raptors playoffs were up 10% this year on average versus 2019.

thurmas Oct 6, 2020 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9064653)
I stopped reading here.


If you're not going to read other posts in this thread with these figures then i'm not sure how to even proceed with bothering to reply to your posts in the first place. Raptors playoffs were up 10% this year on average versus 2019.

?huh I did not say Raptors I said what are the NBA playoff ratings in Canada since they got knocked off by the Celtics in round 2. There has to be some numbers measuring the NBA ECF and NBA finals ratings in Canada?

JHikka Oct 6, 2020 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9064659)
?huh I did not say Raptors I said what are the NBA playoff ratings in Canada since they got knocked off by the Celtics in round 2. There has to be some numbers measuring the NBA ECF and NBA finals ratings in Canada?

That makes more sense.

Typically these sorts of broad sports ratings aren't released in Canada because our overlords at Bell & Rogers have no interest in doing so and our public providers aren't that publicly friendly. Because they don't appear in Numeris' weekly top thirty they're under 500K each at least. Without any data to compare to these numbers on their own wouldn't mean much for gauging basketball's relative incline or decline in Canada over the past few years.

If I had to guess i'd say overall NBA playoffs are down in Canada in 2020 simply because the Raptors aren't making a championship run this year. How much they're down is anyone's guess, but it would be the same as saying that NHL playoff ratings in Canada were down in 2012 because a Canadian team wasn't making a run like the Canucks were the year prior. I'd assume NBA playoff ratings in Canada in 2020 would be higher than they were in, say, 2017 or 2018, but without any reliable data it's impossible to say definitely for the realm of TV.

esquire Oct 6, 2020 3:05 AM

Based on purely anecdotal experiences, i.e. what I see and hear around me, I'm inclined to agree with Acajack's take. I don't think any kind of social justice-related backlash is likely affecting the ratings much, if at all, in Canada. But I could definitely see it having an impact in the US where the culture war lines are much more clearly drawn.

Acajack Oct 6, 2020 3:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9064752)
Based on purely anecdotal experiences, i.e. what I see and hear around me, I'm inclined to agree with Acajack's take. I don't think any kind of social justice-related backlash is likely affecting the ratings much, if at all, in Canada. But I could definitely see it having an impact in the US where the culture war lines are much more clearly drawn.

Plus, the vast majority of Canadians also agree with the stand taken by American pro athletes.

(Though one could argue it's relatively easy to do so when you live in Canada. It's a bit different if you're living in Minneapolis, Portland or Seattle and mobs have been tearing apart sections of your city while your elected officials have flirted with the idea of reducing the police budget or even abolishing the force.)

elly63 Oct 6, 2020 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9064759)
Plus, the vast majority of Canadians also agree with the stand taken by American pro athletes.

Really?

Rico Rommheim Oct 6, 2020 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9065797)
Really?

Actually no. the VAST majority of Canadians agree with Trump. The saviour of American western imperialism.

Acajack Oct 7, 2020 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9065797)
Really?

Yes, really.

There is a bit of the luxury of detachment of a Nepalese person thinking about sea-level rise, but yes - I think most Canadians by a wide margin side with the athletes.

Siding with U.S. athletes (mostly from minorities) also conveniently scores points for Canadians who want to feel morally superior to Americans.

JHikka Oct 7, 2020 1:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rico Rommheim (Post 9065808)
Actually no. the VAST majority of Canadians agree with Trump. The saviour of American western imperialism.

Can't tell if trolling or not.

JHikka Nov 5, 2020 4:42 PM

From the Ottawa subforum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13 (Post 9096777)
OSEG could bail on Lansdowne Park partnership without city help

Give Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group access to reserve funds and renegotiate partnership, say city staff

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Nov 04, 2020 10:28 PM ET

The business group that runs Lansdowne Park's commercial sector and owns the sports teams that play there may not survive without some immediate help from the city, according to a report released late Wednesday.

The COVID-19 pandemic has wreaked havoc on the various revenue streams of the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG). Restaurants struggle to host diners, and "for lease" signs hang at stores in the commercial area it runs. Gathering limits mean the teams it owns — the Redblacks, Ottawa 67's, Ottawa BlackJacks and the Ottawa Aces — can't sell tickets to fans. No concerts or other events can be held at TD Stadium until next year.

"OSEG is not in a position to weather the impact of the pandemic under the current conditions" of its public-private partnership with the city, according to a report submitted to council by city manager Steve Kanellakos.

According to the report, OSEG expects to collect 75 per cent of its rental income in fiscal 2021 and that "rents will take five years to get back to pre-COVID-19 levels." And with no ticketed events allowed in the foreseeable future, OSEG is forecasting a 60 per cent plunge in revenues for next year.

OSEG's cash flow is low, and it needs to renegotiate a $104-million loan in the next two years.

"The worsened financial projections due to the pandemic will make that difficult, putting them at a very real risk of having default be their best business decision," according to the report.

To help OSEG survive, city staff recommend the following:
Give OSEG access to $4.7 million of reserve funds to help it operate in 2021 and refinance its loan, to be paid back over life of its partnership with the city.
Extend the life of the city and OSEG's partnership by 10 years to 2054, presumably to give OSEG more time to recoup some costs.
Forgo the city's half of the cash flow from retail operations it would have collected at the end of the partnership period.

"Urgent action is needed to provide OSEG with more flexibility immediately," states the report.

Opening door to public money

In addition to approving the recommendations, staff want to work with OSEG on options to bring more people to Lansdowne in a post-pandemic era.

Taxpayers have already spent $210 million on Lansdowne, including $135 million to renovate the stadium and another $75 million for the city-run urban park, which includes the Horticulture Building and the Aberdeen Pavilion.

It's unclear if these new negotiations would open the door to more public money being spent at Lansdowne.

The report suggests that OSEG and the city should assess aging infrastructure at Lansdowne, such as the stadium's north stands, and wants to look at increasing the density of the site, "including affordable housing."

A working group would be comprised of OSEG members, the city's senior managers and a number of councillors including Capital ward Coun. Shawn Menard, who represents the area where Lansdowne is located.

The group would report back on the options for Lansdowne by the spring of 2021, and would include public engagement.

City has no expertise running retail, sports teams

It's not a surprise that the city is recommending the bail out.

If OSEG defaults, the city would be left holding the bag for all of Lansdowne's commercial, sports and entertainment business — for which it has no expertise. The city would also be responsible for outstanding loans.

Over the long term, an OSEG default would result in losses of as much as $407 million to the city, according to the report.

However, according to the city's chief financial officer, extending the partnership by 10 years could help the municipality avoid costs between $4 million to $21 million because OSEG would continue to be responsible for operating and maintaining the commercial and entertainment sections of Lansdowne, instead of the city.

City to get no return from 'waterfall'

The city entered into a complex 30-year financial partnership deal with OSEG in 2014, known as the "waterfall." The partnership calls for the city to retain ownership of the property, while the business group operates the retail and entertainment district until 2044, at which time the entire site would revert back to the city.

Meantime, OSEG would be responsible for all extra costs of operating the site, including the stadium and arena.

Under the plan, OSEG was supposed to inject $55 million into Lansdowne over the life of the partnership, but it would also get a return on that investment. And in the latter years of the partnership, the city was also supposed to make money from the deal.

It hasn't worked out that way.

Even before COVID-19, OSEG was having money problems. Over the last several years, it has had to shell out for additional unforeseen costs, and hasn't attracted as many visitors to the site as it had hoped. OSEG had never broken even.

In April 2019, residents heard that the "waterfall" would generate $60 million less than expected over its 30-year life, and the city would never receive its expected $62 million of accrued interest. OSEG would also likely not recoup its $102 million of capital investments.

Addressing the immediate effects of COVID-19 restrictions, as well as the expected prolonged recovery phase, OSEG will end up injecting $192 million into Lansdowne — almost four times as much as it had planned under the original deal.

The OSEG partners include Minto chairman Roger Greenberg, Trinity Development founder John Ruddy, developer William Shenkman, and John Pugh who — among other things — founded e-commerce firm The Object People.

The city's finance and economic development committee will discuss the recommendations at its meeting on Nov. 12.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ium%3Dsharebar


esquire Nov 5, 2020 5:31 PM

Is OSEG the first significant pro sports group to seek public assistance? The teams around here have been pretty well silent since the pandemic began.

Also, what's happening with the north stands at TD Place?

JHikka Nov 6, 2020 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9097027)
Is OSEG the first significant pro sports group to seek public assistance? The teams around here have been pretty well silent since the pandemic began.

I'm fairly certain they are but could be wrong. Lansdowne wasn't profitable before COVID so the pandemic was just the cherry on top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9097027)
Also, what's happening with the north stands at TD Place?

There's no concrete plans at the moment. Both the arena and the North Stand need significant work in the near-term to remain functional.

----

In other news, the Toronto Wolfpack have been denied entry into the Super League for 2021, leaving them without a league.

https://www.torontowolfpack.com/toro...r-2021-season/

Acajack Nov 6, 2020 7:20 PM

Also, Jeff Hunt left OSEG this spring to pursue other projects.

He was the driving force, the public face and some might say the heart and soul of the operation.

Lots of storm clouds on the pro sports horizon right now. Not just in Ottawa and the CFL either.

esquire Nov 6, 2020 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9098493)
There's no concrete plans at the moment. Both the arena and the North Stand need significant work in the near-term to remain functional.

Are there any problems that are obvious, or is it more behind the scenes structural-type stuff? Considering the structure's age, I wonder if it may simply be reaching the end of its lifespan?

JHikka Nov 6, 2020 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9098555)
Are there any problems that are obvious, or is it more behind the scenes structural-type stuff? Considering the structure's age, I wonder if it may simply be reaching the end of its lifespan?

It's mostly structural i'd imagine. The issue was first raised in late 2019 in this article from the Ottawa Citizen:

Quote:

Nor is the issue of compromised infrastructure fully accounted for. Seven years into the Lansdowne partnership, OSEG recognizes the entire north side of the football stadium as well as the arena need replacing, and soon. The original assumption had been OSEG would be able to spend a bit each year to keep the stands and arena in good condition. That much was budgeted for, but a full replacement, which would cost tens of millions of dollars, was not. In coming months OSEG and the city will negotiate over who should bear the extra cost
https://ottawacitizen.com/business/l...ble-teams-here

Acajack Nov 6, 2020 8:05 PM

Yes, it has to be structural. I attended a couple of games in 2019 and sat in the north stands. There is nothing visibly wrong with it from a superficial perspective. It looks no worse or even better than it did in the Rough Riders and Renegades years.

JHikka Jan 7, 2021 5:34 PM

The 2021 #WorldJuniors is the most-watched since 2015, captivating 13.5 million unique Canadian viewers – 36% of Canada’s population – on @TSN_Sports and @RDSca

The fan-favourite tournament smashed records for @TSN_Sports digital platforms, as overall live streaming increased by 121%, more than doubling last year’s record World Juniors live streaming consumption.

An average audience of nearly 3.8 million viewers tuned in to @TSN_Sports and @RDSca for the Gold Medal Game, which also became the most-streamed event ever for TSN digital platforms (up 87% vs 2020).


https://twitter.com/TSN_PR/status/1347217945106280459

Canada's first two group stage games averaged 1.96M on TSN earlier on in the tournament. Canada's games before Tueday's final averaged 2.3M, including 2.8M for the semifinal against Russia.

https://www.tsn.ca/world-junior-men-...cups-1.1573019

elly63 Jan 13, 2021 3:13 AM

Video Link

JHikka Jan 14, 2021 10:50 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EruBYdyX...jpg&name=small

https://twitter.com/SportsnetPR/stat...06330924703746


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