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antinimby Dec 8, 2014 6:46 PM

It's not really a big deal to most New Yorkers that NM and Nordstrom is opening new stores in Manhattan. It just feels that way to us because every article about it is posted here.

And the only reason it gets news article written about it is because they are new to the city. Anything new is news. I remember a number of years ago how the opening of a Whole Foods @ TWC was a news story when they first entered the NY market.

Onn Dec 8, 2014 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835821)
Chicago Spire, Miami's new tallest, Seattle's new tallest, ACC in Philadelphia, Transbay Tower in SF, Wilshire in LA just to name a few.

Because NY is NY maybe it will be different but if the US is all about economics then I find it hard to believe there will really be a 450+ meter tower to the roof. Hopefully I'm wrong.

There is a possibility there could 450+ meter towers in other cities yes. But your talking about a timeline that spans decades, not years. There isn't going to be an explosion of 450+ meters in other cities suddenly. However, on the same token, the rest of the world's development of such tall buildings is also going to slow down. Not the least of which is because of the sharp drop in oil prices in the Middle East but also because China's construction costs are rising rapidly.

Crawford Dec 8, 2014 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835821)
Chicago Spire, Miami's new tallest, Seattle's new tallest, ACC in Philadelphia, Transbay Tower in SF, Wilshire in LA just to name a few.

Well I thought we were talking NYC. None of these are NYC.

And some of these buildings weren't shortened, they were fantasy proposals. If a building wasn't built, then obviously it wasn't shortened.

But no one (outside of skyscraper fan-dom) seriously thought the Chicago Spire or that Philly tower were actually going to be built as described. My brother-in-law is a very prominent commercial real estate broker in Chicago and I remember him making jokes about the Spire back 7 or 8 years ago. It was always nonsense to real estate professionals.

NYguy Dec 8, 2014 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835821)
Chicago Spire, Miami's new tallest, Seattle's new tallest, ACC in Philadelphia, Transbay Tower in SF, Wilshire in LA just to name a few.

Because NY is NY maybe it will be different but if the US is all about economics then I find it hard to believe there will really be a 450+ meter tower to the roof. Hopefully I'm wrong.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6835860)
There is a possibility there could 450+ meter towers in other cities yes. But your talking about a timeline that spans decades, not years. There isn't going to be an explosion of 450+ meters in other cities suddenly. However, on the same token, the rest of the world's development of such tall buildings is also going to slow down. Not the least of which is because of the sharp drop in oil prices in the Middle East but also because China's construction costs are rising rapidly.


For the last time, I'm telling you two (and whoever else) to knock it off. You take every opportunity to throw these discussions into what's being built around the world. Give it a rest or create a thread where you can discuss those issues until you turn purple.




Quote:

Originally Posted by antinimby (Post 6835840)
It's not really a big deal to most New Yorkers that NM and Nordstrom is opening new stores in Manhattan. It just feels that way to us because every article about it is posted here.

It's a very big deal in retail to have these stores opening in Manhattan, and it's a very big deal to residents as well, not the least of which is because even in Manhattan, there are areas underserved, and the west side is among them (it's not known for its shopping). And that's beyond the fact that each new opening brings much needed jobs, whatever you may think about that. Step inside any one of Manhattan's department stores, and tell me you don't think it's a big deal. It's a very big deal, but I don't expect you will get that until these stores open and are full of shoppers and people working.

Perklol Dec 8, 2014 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antinimby (Post 6835840)
It's not really a big deal to most New Yorkers that NM and Nordstrom is opening new stores in Manhattan. It just feels that way to us because every article about it is posted here.

And the only reason it gets news article written about it is because they are new to the city. Anything new is news. I remember a number of years ago how the opening of a Whole Foods @ TWC was a news story when they first entered the NY market.

+1

I think its a slow news day during the holiday months.

tdawg Dec 8, 2014 11:43 PM

So Nordstrom is already shopping for a second downtown location, Saks is opening a second store downtown, Barneys a new Chelsea flagship, and Neiman's is finally entering the market. This signals the greatest era in NYC department stores since the Macy's / Gimbals / B. Altman dominated 30s.

NYguy Dec 9, 2014 5:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdawg (Post 6836256)
So Nordstrom is already shopping for a second downtown location, Saks is opening a second store downtown, Barneys a new Chelsea flagship, and Neiman's is finally entering the market. This signals the greatest era in NYC department stores since the Macy's / Gimbals / B. Altman dominated 30s.


I think it does also. We get the greatest era in skyscraper construction to go along with it. So many great things are happening in the city, which has been written off multiple times. They'll never learn.


http://nypost.com/2014/12/08/retail-...ted-this-fall/

Retail leasing skyrocketed this fall


https://thenypost.files.wordpress.co...0&h=450&crop=1


By Lois Weiss
December 8, 2014


Quote:

Fall has turned out to be a season full of leasing for retail real estate. Deals with Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus, Lowe’s and Amazon have added to the growing retail excitement that will also include the first Nordstrom, in the base of a 1,775-foot tower at 225 W. 57th St., that will shake up the shopping landscape.

Saks’ parent, Hudson’s Bay Company, signed leases with Brookfield Property Partners to open an 85,000-square-foot Saks Fifth Avenue store in Brookfield Place, at 225 Liberty St., and a 55,000-square-foot Saks OFF 5TH store at One Liberty Plaza.

HBC is also leasing 400,000 square feet for offices at Brookfield Place as its local headquarters.

The city’s first Neiman Marcus will anchor the 1 million-square-foot Hudson Yards shopping podium with a 250,000-square-foot multilevel store that will open in fall 2018.

Amazon recently announced it will have its first ever retail distribution location and 400,000 square feet of offices at 7 W. 34th St., opposite the Empire State Building.

The home improvement store, Lowe’s, has also agreed to lease its first two Manhattan retail locations: at 2008 Broadway at W. 68th St. and 635 Sixth Ave. in Chelsea, in an area with numerous big-box stores.

Both will be 30,000 square feet and follow Home Depot’s earlier push into the city.

“All of the developers are 100 percent focused on what is being utilized on the ground floor,” said Brad Cohen of Eastern Consolidated, who is representing several residential projects.

“It is so important to have the right tenants and to have what their residents and the surrounding area can utilize.”

Fashion firms and national tenants remain on the prowl for locations but as always, building owners worry about what goes in on the ground floor.

Peter Riguardi, tri-state president, JLL, said, “Today, we need to make [the building] attractive to millennials so we need to get a retailer that makes it attractive.”

By 2020, 30 percent of all retail sales will come from the millennials. “The millennials want to live in the city, and from a retail perspective, the millennials are our future,” Joanne Podell, vice chairman of retail services at Cushman & Wakefield, said at a recent Real Estate Board of New York luncheon where Riguardi and residential broker Diane Ramirez, CEO of Halstead, also spoke.

“We have areas where if you don’t have retail, you don’t survive,” said Ramirez, pointing to Queens, where there are many new residential projects but a lack of services and choices. “It’s an incredible community but it needs the retail.”

Brooklyn is also now on the radar of many international tenants. “It is less touristy and more ‘New Yorkery’ than Manhattan, which they feel has too many tourists,” explained David LaPierre, executive vice president, CBRE. “We are working with a half a dozen brands that want to be there.”

.....Tourists and their free spending are also welcomed by retailers.

Thomas Durels, executive vice president and director of leasing for the Empire State Realty Trust says, “We are seeing a steady increase in the number of tourists and international shoppers that walk down Broadway from Times Square and are going to either Macy’s or the Empire State Building or both.” Over 100 million pedestrians a year pass through the W. 34th Street corridor.

Durels has three availabilities across W. 34th Street from the upcoming Amazon store, but is always picky about what is in the base of the world-renowned tower.

And 57th Street is another example of a market going through a major transformation, with several ultra-luxury residential towers entering the market, said Jeff Nero, principal and managing director of retail services at Avison Young.

...“There is a tremendous interest in 57th as the retailers recognize the changes that are coming, and that Nordstrom will be anchoring the corridor,” said Nero. “It will become a major draw.”

Hypothalamus Dec 9, 2014 7:13 AM

Quote:

By 2020, 30 percent of all retail sales will come from the millennials. “The millennials want to live in the city, and from a retail perspective, the millennials are our future,” Joanne Podell, vice chairman of retail services at Cushman & Wakefield, said at a recent Real Estate Board of New York luncheon where Riguardi and residential broker Diane Ramirez, CEO of Halstead, also spoke.


If it's hipster and chic, we'll be the first to buy it.

dropdeaded209 Dec 9, 2014 12:13 PM

i love how millenials are somehow simultaneously broke and crushed with student debt but also the target market for propping up nordstrom and nieman marcus by 2020...

antinimby Dec 9, 2014 1:55 PM

^ they're versatile.

NYguy Dec 9, 2014 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209 (Post 6836689)
i love how millenials are somehow simultaneously broke and crushed with student debt but also the target market for propping up nordstrom and nieman marcus by 2020...

They're the target for much more than that, everything from new office space to new residential space. It all ties in together. And, as we're talking about the future, it all makes sense.

Having these stores in Manhattan is also about marketing, as the city is tourist heavy year 'round. It's about name and presence, similar in a way to those stores that like to have a presence on Madison Ave, even if they're losing money there. Nordstrom, meanwhile, bought this site, and this store alone will have a huge impact, simply by being in Manhattan. The smart people in the business know this, and that's why you are seeing these moves take place.

Onn Dec 9, 2014 4:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209 (Post 6836689)
i love how millenials are somehow simultaneously broke and crushed with student debt but also the target market for propping up nordstrom and nieman marcus by 2020...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy
They're the target for much more than that, everything from new office space to new residential space. It all ties in together. And, as we're talking about the future, it all makes sense.

Millennials are indeed behind in money making, which makes it a difficult target market right now. Student loan debt, house buying, you name it. Eventually that will change, but its more like 2020+. The jobs market is still not very good outside big cities unfortunately.

The good thing about departments stores though is that many times a lot of people just go in to buy one or two things even if they don't have a lot of money at the moment, which can still be a worthwhile sale.

NYguy Dec 9, 2014 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6836863)
Millennials are indeed behind in money making, which makes it a difficult target market right now. Student loan debt, house buying, you name it. Eventually that will change, but its more like 2020+. The jobs market is still not very good outside big cities unfortunately.


This is the quote we're talking about...


Quote:

By 2020, 30 percent of all retail sales will come from the millennials.

“The millennials want to live in the city, and from a retail perspective, the millennials are our future,” Joanne Podell, vice chairman of retail services at Cushman & Wakefield, said at a recent Real Estate Board of New York luncheon


It doesn't take much to go out and say "millennials" are the future, because that's obviously the case. But what it speaks to is that no longer are people opting for the "suburban dream" as the ultimate goal. People want to live and shop in the city, and that's a good thing. The more money spent in the city, the more jobs available in the city, the more economic development the city has, the more options available, it's all in the plus column. Some people may complain about the changes these luxury towers are making along West 57th, or "billionaier's row", but a greater impact to the man on the street will be the retail. It's a very tall tower, but to the average person, all of the buildings in that area are tall.

Onn Dec 9, 2014 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6836933)
It doesn't take much to go out and say "millennials" are the future, because that's obviously the case. But what it speaks to is that no longer are people opting for the "suburban dream" as the ultimate goal. People want to live and shop in the city, and that's a good thing. The more money spent in the city, the more jobs available in the city, the more economic development the city has, the more options available, it's all in the plus column.

Your making a very board general overstatement about the population though. Here in the Midwest moving to the city is not the goal for most people my age. Some are, ones who are getting through or find a job there. But there are so many who are like stuck. Many Blue collar jobs that the young generation used to get here are gone, leaving the service sector and minimum wage jobs. You really got to get out of the city because its not like everyone is highly educated or a skilled laborer in many parts of the country.

TonyNYC Dec 9, 2014 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6836953)
Your making a very board general overstatement about the population though. Here in the Midwest moving to the city is not the goal for most people my age. Some are, ones who are getting through or find a job there. But there are so many who are like stuck. Many Blue collar jobs that the young generation used to get here are gone, leaving the service sector and minimum wage jobs. You really got to get out of the city because its not like everyone is highly educated or a skilled laborer in many parts of the country.


Obviously, not everyone wants to move to the city, but there has been a large amount of Millenials/hipsters/twenty somethings, whatever you want to call them, coming to NYC over the last 10+ years from all over the country.

They've played a large part in all the change over the last decade in neighborhoods like Astoria, LIC, Greenpoint & Williamsburg and especially in areas like Flatbush & Bedford Stuyvesant, etc...

they've transformed these areas..still happening today...


Crazy...to a lifetime NY'er some of these areas...you were putting your life on the line to walk around years back.. now try to buy a brownstone in Bed Stuy.


Amazing that all this change has been in the works all over, but what makes the most headlines for obvious reasons are the Supertalls going up all over Midtown, Hudson yards and Downtown. What a great time for NYC!!

NYguy Dec 9, 2014 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6836953)
Your making a very board general overstatement about the population though. Here in the Midwest moving to the city is not the goal for most people my age. Some are, ones who are getting through or find a job there. But there are so many who are like stuck. Many Blue collar jobs that the young generation used to get here are gone, leaving the service sector and minimum wage jobs. You really got to get out of the city because its not like everyone is highly educated or a skilled laborer in many parts of the country.

We are specifically talking about New York here, and it's been known for a while that people prefer to live in the city. Obviously that may not always be possible for everyone, but is a driving factor in almost all decisions you see about company moves or relocation. (People sometimes talk about Downtown being a more attractive place to work these days because of its proximity to places like Brooklyn and Jersey City). A lot of people who have moved to the suburbs are now at a stage in life where city living is just more preferable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyNYC (Post 6837087)
Obviously, not everyone wants to move to the city, but there has been a large amount of Millenials/hipsters/twenty somethings, whatever you want to call them, coming to NYC over the last 10+ years from all over the country.

They've played a large part in all the change over the last decade in neighborhoods like Astoria, LIC, Greenpoint & Williamsburg and especially in areas like Flatbush & Bedford Stuyvesant, etc...

Amazing that all this change has been in the works all over, but what makes the most headlines for obvious reasons are the Supertalls going up all over Midtown, Hudson yards and Downtown. What a great time for NYC!!


One thing about New York that has helped it survive the changing world is the ability to adapt. Is it the New York that it was even 20 years ago? It isn't. It's a city that's growing and changing, but some of the things that made it attractive a hundred years ago are the same things that make it attractive now. You don't have to jump in a car and drive out to a mall (and search for a parking space) to shop. The streets were lively then, and they still are.

Nordstrom is betting on it, so much that they're already looking for a second Manhattan location (we've discussed it before)...



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...tan-store.html

Nordstrom Seeking Space for Second Manhattan Store

By David M. Levitt
Oct 14, 2014


Quote:

Nordstrom Inc., the retailer planning to open its first New York City store on Midtown’s West 57th Street, is seeking space in lower Manhattan for a second location, brokers from CBRE Group Inc. said.

Executives of the Seattle-based department store chain have approached landlords of South Street Seaport and 1 Wall St. “and maybe one or two others,” Richard Hodos, an executive vice president at CBRE, said today at a briefing for reporters on New York’s commercial real estate market.

“They’re looking,” Hodos said. “They’re negotiating economics with a couple of different developers at different sites. Contemporaneous to that, they are doing their area research.”

Nordstrom, the operator of more than 100 namesake department stores across the U.S., said in June that it would open its first full-line Manhattan location at 225 W. 57th St., at the base of a residential skyscraper to be built by Gary Barnett’s Extell Development Co.

Dan Evans, a Nordstrom spokesman in Seattle, said he had no immediate comment on plans for a lower Manhattan location. Women’s Wear Daily reported on Oct. 2 that the retailer is looking for a 250,000-square-foot space in the area.

If they can find a space - not an easy task - it would be about the same size as the 57th Street store.

Crawford Dec 9, 2014 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6837382)
If they can find a space - not an easy task - it would be about the same size as the 57th Street store.

The rumor is that Nordstrom is close to signing a lease for One Wall Street, the BNY Mellon HQ tower.

Harry Macklowe bought it recently and is converting the tower to condos and the lower levels to a 300,000 square foot department store space.

I'm not sure whether the 60's era addition is being converted too, or being torn down and replaced by a second residential tower. In any case, the property will be retail-residential, not office, in the near future.

Perklol Dec 9, 2014 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropdeaded209 (Post 6836689)
i love how millenials are somehow simultaneously broke and crushed with student debt but also the target market for propping up nordstrom and nieman marcus by 2020...

That's what generation greed has been doing lately. Getting the most $$ out of younger generations before heading down to Florida

gttx Dec 10, 2014 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6837433)
The rumor is that Nordstrom is close to signing a lease for One Wall Street, the BNY Mellon HQ tower.

Harry Macklowe bought it recently and is converting the tower to condos and the lower levels to a 300,000 square foot department store space.

I'm not sure whether the 60's era addition is being converted too, or being torn down and replaced by a second residential tower. In any case, the property will be retail-residential, not office, in the near future.

Wow - should be a really interesting project. I work across the street (14 Wall), so will have a front-row seat to this transformation.

Can't wait to have more tourists in the area! :rolleyes:

NYguy Dec 10, 2014 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6837433)
The rumor is that Nordstrom is close to signing a lease for One Wall Street, the BNY Mellon HQ tower.

Harry Macklowe bought it recently and is converting the tower to condos and the lower levels to a 300,000 square foot department store space.

I'm not sure whether the 60's era addition is being converted too, or being torn down and replaced by a second residential tower. In any case, the property will be retail-residential, not office, in the near future.


Yeah, we'll see how that works. Nordstrom has been known to flirt with different spaces, only to have it not work out. Now that there is the new store opening on 57th, I wonder if they will be more flexible with space needs.


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