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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Sep 4, 2018 8:58 PM

Angus Reid conducted a survey of the CFL & NFL in Canada recently. The article can be found here.

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...ize=895%2C1024

https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL8.jpg?w=600

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL3.jpg?w=644

https://i0.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...CFL5.jpg?w=731

https://i1.wp.com/angusreid.org/wp-c...etho.jpg?w=454

All graphs courtesy of Angus Reid.

JHikka Sep 4, 2018 9:26 PM

Angus Reid also polled Canadians on their general views of sports leagues in Canada, which can be viewed here.

Here's the main table:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1846/2...d95556fa_o.png

Acajack Sep 5, 2018 6:49 PM

The most interesting info for me is the interest in football leagues according to political allegiance.

isaidso Sep 6, 2018 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8304443)
The most interesting info for me is the interest in football leagues according to political allegiance.

Same. I didn't foresee NDP being the most heavily NFL.

Acajack Sep 6, 2018 2:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8304852)
Same. I didn't foresee NDP being the most heavily NFL.

As much as I hate to admit it, it does point to the Liberals and NDP having large concentrations of apatrid globalist hipsters with an attitude of "ewww... something uniquely Canadian - don't let it touch me!"

TimB09 Sep 6, 2018 1:27 PM

Based on those results, the CFL better start figuring out how to attract the 18-34 crowd, OR start pulling fans in from the 18 and under category. That's how you build a future fan base.

It's also interesting to see that Quebec has more preference to the NFL over the CFL. 10 years ago, with Calvillo and Trestman at the helm in Montreal, I don't think those numbers are that way. Winning does wonders in Montreal I guess.

No surprise in Ontario as well.

Count me as part of that 21% who watch and enjoy both leagues.

TorontoDrew Sep 6, 2018 2:38 PM

Those stats pretty much prove all of my thoughts about the CFL and it's future as a league in it's current Mickey Mouse state. The fact that they are losing the market to the NFL with younger Canadians is not a shock to me. I've said it before, a league needs more then just 9 teams to make it interesting. Give Halifax a team, Victoria, Quebec City, London. if the numbers are bad and they are losing the younger market to the NFL the future of the league doesn't appear so great.

Hackslack Sep 6, 2018 2:49 PM

Relative to NFL, CFL has work to do. Relative to other major sports, CFL is 2nd in overall popularity, and is far and away more popular overall than MLS and NBA.

The difference between NFL and CFL is the fact that fantasy football exists in NFL. That is probably the greatest reason why you see those increased stats, especially the 18 - 35 age. I’ve always said, there are football fans, then there are the fantasy football fans...

People say that if Toronto didn’t have a CFL team the league would die off and become irrelevant... argument is even more true with respect to NBA and MLB. If Toronto lost their team those two leagues would become completely irrelevant l.

Berklon Sep 6, 2018 4:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09 (Post 8305255)
Based on those results, the CFL better start figuring out how to attract the 18-34 crowd, OR start pulling fans in from the 18 and under category. That's how you build a future fan base.

Which highlights how short-sighted Bob Young was in allowing THF to be built on the same site as Ivor Wynne instead of closer to downtown. There's a large influx of students and young professionals moving downtown as there's a resurgence going on with many condos being built. If you want their support - you bring the game to them. Instead, the game is still situated in an area with an older and lower income demographic. This will bite him in the ass down the road.

TimB09 Sep 6, 2018 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackslack (Post 8305332)
Relative to NFL, CFL has work to do. Relative to other major sports, CFL is 2nd in overall popularity, and is far and away more popular overall than MLS and NBA.

The difference between NFL and CFL is the fact that fantasy football exists in NFL. That is probably the greatest reason why you see those increased stats, especially the 18 - 35 age. I’ve always said, there are football fans, then there are the fantasy football fans...

People say that if Toronto didn’t have a CFL team the league would die off and become irrelevant... argument is even more true with respect to NBA and MLB. If Toronto lost their team those two leagues would become completely irrelevant l.

Well said.

NFL fantasy leagues are a billion dollar market. That's one reason why the NFL has the appeal that it does.

TSN is trying to get CFL fantasy going but offering a $5,000 reward for winning isn't going to attract a big base of people, especially in the 18-35 category, signing up.

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 5:58 PM

People act as if the so called "Mickey Mouse league" is blissfully unaware of its present older demo. They are very aware under Commish Ambrosie and have been working to fix the problem (and having some early success).

That's why you see party zones being erected and or put into new stadium design, think Rum Hut, Pil Country, Subaru Log Cabin. That why the CFL came up with a video game especially geared to younger kids, that's why you're seeing initiatives towards flag football and programs (Nissan) to help get football back into schools. They are thinking well beyond attracting millennials.

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8305535)
Instead, the game is still situated in an area with an older and lower income demographic.

Neighbourhoods seldom remain the same. They are dynamic and cyclical. The neighborhood I grew up in was young, grew old and is now young again within 30 years.

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8305318)
Those stats pretty much prove all of my thoughts about the CFL and it's future as a league in it's current Mickey Mouse state. The fact that they are losing the market to the NFL with younger Canadians is not a shock to me. I've said it before, a league needs more then just 9 teams to make it interesting. Give Halifax a team, Victoria, Quebec City, London. if the numbers are bad and they are losing the younger market to the NFL the future of the league doesn't appear so great.

Nine teams is a bad argument to make as a reason for losing market share. Think the original six and the CPL (if it makes it off the ground).

You can't just plant a team anywhere just for the sake of adding new teams. I also think the disinformation of the quality of the league relative to the NFL has likely peaked. Sure you'll get lots of people in one particularly highly populated area to buy into the NFL hype but Americans themselves are buying into it less.

You are likely to see all big time sports waning in many levels of popularity, we just don't live our lives like we did in the previous century. I think the CFL is as well positioned as any league to take on the future. Why? Because the CFL has had to scratch and claw for the past 30 years and has actually come out the other side even better than then.

Almost every major sport should be concerned about their future and who their audience will be well after any millennial generation

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8304946)
it does point to the Liberals and NDP having large concentrations of apatrid globalist hipsters with an attitude of "ewww... something uniquely Canadian - don't let it touch me!"

And yet another reason not to like them :)

Berklon Sep 6, 2018 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 8305650)
Neighbourhoods seldom remain the same. They are dynamic and cyclical. The neighborhood I grew up in was young, grew old and is now young again within 30 years.

True, but in this location - while the older people are dying off, there aren't a lot of younger people moving in. It's been a low-income area since I was a kid many moons ago and hasn't changed. It's going to take a long time for the demographics of this area to change, while the downtown has been gentrifying and getting younger very quickly. #missedopportunity

In any case, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Alliance of American Football (what a dumb name) kicks off.
All players will receive a minimum 3-year, $250K USD contracts. That should sway some Americans away from playing in Canada since it's more advantageous to stay to play in the US (ie. higher salary, lower taxes, closer to home for some, warmer weather, more accessible to scouts, etc).

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8305742)
True, but in this location - while the older people are dying off, there aren't a lot of younger people moving in. It's been a low-income area since I was a kid many moons ago and hasn't changed. It's going to take a long time for the demographics of this area to change, while the downtown has been gentrifying and getting younger very quickly. #missedopportunity

What I've been seeing is the old middle class neighborhoods getting a bit run down and younger folk moving in and buying up the places as fixer uppers, thus rejuvenating the areas.

But I've also been seeing lots of stories of young folk not being able to afford anything and the emergence of the whole tiny house et al movements. Problem is, I want to retire early and downsize but some of the prices on these new age units aren't too great either. And that is their whole raison d'etre, affordability.

All I want is my little beach cottage but some of the prices to me are ridiculous, but I suppose it is all relative because someone from the GTA or Vancouver would think they were probably great prices.

elly63 Sep 6, 2018 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8305742)
In any case, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Alliance of American Football (what a dumb name) kicks off.
All players will receive a minimum 3-year, $250K USD contracts. That should sway some Americans away from playing in Canada since it's more advantageous to stay to play in the US (ie. higher salary, lower taxes, closer to home for some, warmer weather, more accessible to scouts, etc).

They come, they go. You should always be concerned but I think tradition and stability are far under rated. Really, only the AFL has made a success of it and that was in football's heyday nearly 50 years ago.

The USFL had the best chance, but some "small potatoes" big shot blew it for them.

Hackslack Sep 6, 2018 8:58 PM

I don’t mind these new football leagues pop up. It makes the CFL be more competitive to recruit players, increase salaries, etc... not to mention these leagues don’t overlap with CFL, so theoretically players that play in the other leagues can still play for the CFL season. Make $80k in the US league through the winter, the make another $80k trough the summer/fall... not sure it could work that way but hopefully they could find a way

TimB09 Sep 6, 2018 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 8305742)
True, but in this location - while the older people are dying off, there aren't a lot of younger people moving in. It's been a low-income area since I was a kid many moons ago and hasn't changed. It's going to take a long time for the demographics of this area to change, while the downtown has been gentrifying and getting younger very quickly. #missedopportunity

In any case, it's going to be interesting to see what happens when the Alliance of American Football (what a dumb name) kicks off.
All players will receive a minimum 3-year, $250K USD contracts. That should sway some Americans away from playing in Canada since it's more advantageous to stay to play in the US (ie. higher salary, lower taxes, closer to home for some, warmer weather, more accessible to scouts, etc).

That's not 250k/year, that's $83,000/year. So the CFL needs to up their minimum/rookie salary game if they hope to sway some players to come to Canada.

This next CBA negotiation, which will be after this season, will be very interesting.

Berklon Sep 6, 2018 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09 (Post 8305916)
That's not 250k/year, that's $83,000/year.

Yes, I'm aware. I never stated that it was per year.
250k/year minimum contract would be ludicrous for a new league - especially one with only 8 teams to draw revenue from.

Another draw to potential players I forgot is that the season is only 12 weeks long and each team only plays 10 games. Enticing to earn more money playing almost half as many games - especially for a sport as physically damaging as football.


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