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Johnny Aussie Jan 28, 2016 3:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7315431)
Sure, until you try to fly south. YVRs Central/South America and Caribbean roster is abysmal.

Yes, but what other city in Canada has excellent South American connections other than YYZ of course? YYZ and YUL have PLENTY of flights to Central America to sun destination resorts. And the Caribbean is well covered from the Eastern Cities. But for Western Canada in general.... not as many. Geography plays a big role.

In fact, how many US cities have many connections to South America other than the big hubs? SFO, BOS, PHL are examples of very large US cities with no direct links to South America. Sure there are flights to Panama and San Salvador from SFO but that's it for Latin America. If SFO doesn't have one link to South America, being that much larger, that much closer and a huge hub for UA, why do we think YVR should have direct flights to South America? Even PHX being a large hub for AA has no direct links to South America and only seasonal flights to San Jose, CR. Since we are just that much further away makes it that much harder to make those flights work.

I know I have said this so many times, South American connections to a small number of cities is plausible like LIM or SCL for example but honestly guys don't expect much.

YVR is all about Asia first. I'm still impressed how much European service YVR has despite being the farthest away major city in Canada and compared to similar cities in the Pacific Northwest its still ahead of SEA and light years ahead of PDX.

Klazu Jan 28, 2016 6:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7315455)
It helps when you have 4 airlines (AF, SS, TS and AC) that operate aircraft with high density configurations on the city pair. SS a few years ago was flying 580 seat B744s on the route. They now send the A330 to YUL and the seat config on their B744s has since been scaled back to a comfortable 533 seats...:)

That's interesting. I didn't know that a 747 can be configured to take almost 600 passengers!

GreaterMontréal Jan 28, 2016 6:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu (Post 7315971)
That's interesting. I didn't know that a 747 can be configured to take almost 600 passengers!

660 passengers with the 747-400D variant.

Coldrsx Jan 28, 2016 3:12 PM

Edmonton International Airport celebrates environmental certification

EDMONTON JOURNAL

Edmonton International Airport has achieved environmental LEED Gold certifications for its South Terminal expansion — a first for an airport terminal in Canada — and for its new Central Tower.

LEED — Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design — is a certification achieved through independent review of design, construction, operation and maintenance practices. It’s used by 150 countries.

Airport officials marked the achievements with a ceremony Wednesday.

“EIA has committed to being environmentally and socially responsible while meeting the Edmonton region’s growing need for air service,” Steve Rumley, EIA vice-president, infrastructure, said in a news release.

http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...-certification

Riise Jan 28, 2016 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7314977)
Go one step further ! YUL in 2014 had more international non U.S passengers than YVR.

5.5 million vs 4.5 million.

Including US numbers, the difference is about 100,000 in favor of YVR. Point is, YYC is light years behind YYZ, YVR and YUL in terms of international passenger count.

The original post was about how YUL and YYC have similar overall numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen (Post 7314886)
*Even YUL, with its exotic destinations, has only about as many pax as YYC, and is a city of 4 million metro.

With one passenger being counted as one passenger regardless of their destination, what does being International, Transborder or Domestic have to do with overall passenger numbers? Pointing out that YYC is lightyears behind YUL in terms of international passenger count does nothing to refute the fact that both airports have similar overall passenger counts.

While a BMW is better than a Volkswagen, a person that owns only an M3 owns as many cars as a person who only owns a Jetta.

craneSpotter Jan 28, 2016 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal (Post 7315983)
660 passengers with the 747-400D variant.

660 wow! What kind of seat width and pitch I wonder? What airline flies a 400D ... I wanna check seat guru...


Edit: Ok looks like the 400D was a variant made for the Japanese market ..

SkahHigh Jan 28, 2016 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7316338)
The original post was about how YUL and YYC have similar overall numbers.



With one passenger being counted as one passenger regardless of their destination, what does being International, Transborder or Domestic have to do with overall passenger numbers? Pointing out that YYC is lightyears behind YUL in terms of international passenger count does nothing to refute the fact that both airports have similar overall passenger counts.

While a BMW is better than a Volkswagen, a person that owns only an M3 owns as many cars as a person who only owns a Jetta.

trofirhen said that airport passengers numbers were relative of a city's economy, which they often are. So I believe it's important to mention when more than half of an airport's PAX numbers come from international passengers (much more economic importance than domestic passengers).

G.S MTL Jan 28, 2016 8:22 PM

Just checked schedules for Corsair to Paris (orly) from YUL it's not 6 weekly it's actually 7 ! I'll make changes to the list.

GreaterMontréal Jan 28, 2016 8:58 PM

they're called ''international airports'', for a reason.

LeftCoaster Jan 28, 2016 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7315837)
Yes, but what other city in Canada has excellent South American connections other than YYZ of course? YYZ and YUL have PLENTY of flights to Central America to sun destination resorts. And the Caribbean is well covered from the Eastern Cities. But for Western Canada in general.... not as many. Geography plays a big role.

In fact, how many US cities have many connections to South America other than the big hubs? SFO, BOS, PHL are examples of very large US cities with no direct links to South America. Sure there are flights to Panama and San Salvador from SFO but that's it for Latin America. If SFO doesn't have one link to South America, being that much larger, that much closer and a huge hub for UA, why do we think YVR should have direct flights to South America? Even PHX being a large hub for AA has no direct links to South America and only seasonal flights to San Jose, CR. Since we are just that much further away makes it that much harder to make those flights work.

I know I have said this so many times, South American connections to a small number of cities is plausible like LIM or SCL for example but honestly guys don't expect much.

YVR is all about Asia first. I'm still impressed how much European service YVR has despite being the farthest away major city in Canada and compared to similar cities in the Pacific Northwest its still ahead of SEA and light years ahead of PDX.

It's not just South America, Central America and the Caribbean are a joke.

-YVR has 3 flights per week to Cuba. Per WEEK!
-YVR doesn't fly anywhere in central america outside of Mexico... even YYC flies to Costa Rica.
-Pindling Intl in the Bahamas is managed by YVR but there isn't even a flight there.

And it's not just the lack of directs, one of the biggest problems is the connections. YYC has 6 flights per day to IAH, there are 2 from YVR. 0 Flights to Miami and only just this year started a 2 per week to Orlando. Sure there are a ton to LAX and SFO, but they are constantly full with business travel, leaving leisure little option.

I was in Van for work right before the break and wanted to fly to Panama City, the connections were all so bad I ended up flying back to Toronto and booked my flight out of there. While I was searching I noticed it was cheaper and faster to fly from YVR to Singapore than to panama City.

I'm not saying there is any appetite for these flights or that it is under served, just pointing out that the connectivity is horrible. YVR may be an embarrassment of riches for Asia-Pac or European flying but it's southern connectivity leaves a lot to be desired.

Riise Jan 28, 2016 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7316672)
So I believe it's important to mention when more than half of an airport's PAX numbers come from international passengers (much more economic importance than domestic passengers).

Is that a certainty? Are most of the international passengers leaving to spend their money elsewhere? Are the business executives of domestic companies not of economic importance to their domestic destinations?

Johnny Aussie Jan 28, 2016 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7316962)
It's not just South America, Central America and the Caribbean are a joke.

-YVR has 3 flights per week to Cuba. Per WEEK!
-YVR doesn't fly anywhere in central america outside of Mexico... even YYC flies to Costa Rica.
-Pindling Intl in the Bahamas is managed by YVR but there isn't even a flight there.

I'm not saying there is any appetite for these flights or that it is under served, just pointing out that the connectivity is horrible. YVR may be an embarrassment of riches for Asia-Pac or European flying but it's southern connectivity leaves a lot to be desired.

Maybe there just isn't a big enough market to warrant such flights? :shrug:

Don't forget the rest of Canada is in deep freeze for most of the winter... There is a penchant to escape. I know some of my family flees Alberta for as much of the winter as they can... Probably why there are more sun flights out of there... Not so much my BC family.

nname Jan 28, 2016 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7316962)
While I was searching I noticed it was cheaper and faster to fly from YVR to Singapore than to panama City.

Sometimes its cheaper to fly to Singapore than to Toronto. My friend booked a flight to Singapore for $620rt some years ago. I think there is no way you can get to Toronto with that price :D

Johnny Aussie Jan 28, 2016 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7317025)
Is that a certainty? Are most of the international passengers leaving to spend their money elsewhere? Are the business executives of domestic companies not of economic importance to their domestic destinations?

A significant portion of the international traffic at YUL is YUL originating pax heading to the Caribbean and Central American sun resorts. So probably skewed in the other direction. How many Transborder pax are then connecting on to other International flights? And we all know traffic from all over Canada connects in YYZ for onward international flights. Hard to truly compare one airport to the other international versus domestic globally. Canada is the only country that separates US/other. I'd actually be curious which US airport has the highest % of Canadian traffic as a total International numbers. Sounds like a fun project! Example, in Australia, all airports of course separate domestic and International. A pretty decent chunk is Australia-NZ where we have our own relationship. Similar but still different to Canada-US. Being an Aussie, I can just fly to NZ and stay as long as I want (legally)... Forever if I wanted to. So how do you then compare say MEL's international stats to YVR's? Do you remove NZ from MEL as sort of a Transborder type flight and remove USA traffic from YVR? And there are lots of Aussies from all over Australia who connect in SYD for onward international flights.

jmt18325 Jan 28, 2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 7317053)
Sometimes its cheaper to fly to Singapore than to Toronto. My friend booked a flight to Singapore for $620rt some years ago. I think there is no way you can get to Toronto with that price :D

If you're flexible, it's anywhere between $500 - $550 from Vancouver to Toronto return.

SkahHigh Jan 28, 2016 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7317025)
Is that a certainty? Are most of the international passengers leaving to spend their money elsewhere? Are the business executives of domestic companies not of economic importance to their domestic destinations?

Yes really. I'd much rather have an airport with a lot of international traffic and destinations than a busy domestic airport.

Klazu Jan 28, 2016 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 7316655)
Edit: Ok looks like the 400D was a variant made for the Japanese market ..

Yeah, pretty cool considering that it was (is?) mostly flying between Japanese megacities (like Tokyo and Osaka) and at the same time there were over a dozen long bullet trains running on those same routes daily. Crazy what two cities of 20M+ people can support. :D

LeftCoaster Jan 28, 2016 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7317042)
Maybe there just isn't a big enough market to warrant such flights? :shrug:

Don't forget the rest of Canada is in deep freeze for most of the winter... There is a penchant to escape. I know some of my family flees Alberta for as much of the winter as they can... Probably why there are more sun flights out of there... Not so much my BC family.

No argument from me. I was never saying there was anything not level going on, just countering the claim that YVR is an embarrassment of riches. It is, but only if you're flying north, east or west.

And ya I'd imagine it has everything to do with climate. I know growing up in Vancouver my family only went on a sun vacation once, and most families I knew were pretty similar. Compare that to Toronto where its nearly unthinkable to not go to Florida/Dominican/Cuba etc.. for a break from the cold.

Klazu Jan 28, 2016 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7316962)
While I was searching I noticed it was cheaper and faster to fly from YVR to Singapore than to panama City.

Before settling for HKG and TPE, I was also keeping an eye on for those two cities out of YVR. In the last three months I never saw Singapore being cheaper than Panama City, but I did see some deals to PTY for around $400. So you can get there cheap, but the flights are on the likes of Delta and via airports like Atlanta.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 12:37 AM

This didn't get posted here, but a strange scene at YVR on Tuesday when a China Airlines 747 just arrived from Taipei managed to wander off the tarmac into the grass and got stuck. No idea what the pilots were thinking here:

http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/b...29-878x494.png
http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/b...29-878x494.png

http://i.imgur.com/pNJRvbJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pNJRvbJ.jpg

Klazu Jan 29, 2016 1:35 AM

Auto-pilot all the way to the terminal? :shrug:

SignalHillHiker Jan 29, 2016 11:09 AM

Excellent news. And the Irish and Americans are coming.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/n...onal-1.3423717

Riise Jan 29, 2016 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317085)
Yes really. I'd much rather have an airport with a lot of international traffic and destinations than a busy domestic airport.

So you much prefer the economic situation of having an airport where most of the travellers were locals flying to international destinations to spend their money elsewhere over an airport that brings in compatriots from other parts of the country to spend thier money locally?

An airport that brings in foreigners is probably going to be a larger contributor to the economy than an airport that brings in travellers from inside the country. However, the statistics in this thread do not provide a sufficient amount of evidence to prove that is the case at YUL do they? It's a premature conclusion in an attempt to maintain the notion of superiority. That is why it is so commonly brought up in this thread even when the concept of economic importance isn't being discussed and the absolute numbers are provided simply to measure general activity.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7317693)
So you much prefer the economic situation of having an airport where most of the travellers were locals flying to international destinations to spend their money elsewhere over an airport that brings in compatriots from other parts of the country to spend thier money locally?

An airport that brings in foreigners is probably going to be a larger contributor to the economy than an airport that brings in travellers from inside the country. However, the statistics in this thread do not provide a sufficient amount of evidence to prove that is the case at YUL do they? It's a premature conclusion in an attempt to maintain the notion of superiority. That is why it is so commonly brought up in this thread even when the concept of economic importance isn't being discussed and the absolute numbers are provided simply to measure general activity.

I thought this was simple... Would you rather have a lot of flights to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver or Doha, Beijing and London? International pax doesn't necessarily mean people spending their money elsewhere, tourism is also involved.

More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that.

flipv Jan 29, 2016 3:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317699)
I thought this was simple... Would you rather have a lot of flights to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver or Doha, Beijing and London? International pax doesn't necessarily mean people spending their money elsewhere, tourism is also involved.

More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that.

Yep. There's a good reason YYZ advertises the fact that it's the second largest international gateway to NA after JFK - it's a very good place to be.

thenoflyzone Jan 29, 2016 3:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7317557)
Excellent news. And the Irish and Americans are coming.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/n...onal-1.3423717

Wont bring back UA though. A lot of American regional operators can't even fly CAT II approaches, much less CAT III.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7317094)

And ya I'd imagine it has everything to do with climate. I know growing up in Vancouver my family only went on a sun vacation once, and most families I knew were pretty similar. Compare that to Toronto where its nearly unthinkable to not go to Florida/Dominican/Cuba etc.. for a break from the cold.

There are several reasons. Not just the climate.

Distance involved is another. 737s/A320s cannot fly from YVR to most of the Caribbean (east of Cuba) without taking a payload hit, meaning bigger equipment with more range will have to be used. Since the demand isn't that strong to begin with, the justification of sending a Rouge 763 or a TS A310 from YVR to places east of VRA or SNU simply isn't there.

I know Sunwing has once weekly flights to MBJ and PUJ. YVR-PUJ is a whopping 5928 km! It's done non-stop, as per the schedules. That's the longest B738 flight in the world that I know of. The return has a stop in YHM.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/S...400Z/CYVR/MDPC

Another reason... why fly all the way to the Caribbean, when Hawaii, Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, etc are right there ! This is also why HNL only has a handful of flights to the US east coast and none to Europe. If Europeans want to go to the beach, there are thousands of places to go that are cheaper and closer than HNL.

Riise Jan 29, 2016 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317699)
I thought this was simple... Would you rather have a lot of flights to Winnipeg, Edmonton and Vancouver or Doha, Beijing and London? International pax doesn't necessarily mean people spending their money elsewhere, tourism is also involved.

More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that.

It is not always a case of Occam's Razor. Sometimes a plane with less passengers if more profitable than a plane with more passengers because the plane with fewer passengers has passengers sitting in the most lucrative seats. If the flights from Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver are bringing in more dollars to the economy than the flights from Beijing, Doha and London, I'd take the economic boost over the prestige. While international passenger at Canadian airports are not automatically spending their money elsewhere, they are not automatically spending their money in Canada either.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7317733)
Another reason... why fly all the way to the Caribbean, when Hawaii, Cabo, Puerto Vallarta, etc are right there ! This is also why HNL only has a handful of flights to the US east coast and none to Europe. If Europeans want to go to the beach, there are thousands of places to go that are cheaper and closer than HNL.

Good point. Hawaii is only marginally longer flying time from YVR than the Caribbean is from central Canada (QC/ON, even MB/SK), but it's a million times better anyway as far as vacation destinations go.

Who in their right mind in BC would be thinking about Cuba when you have Hawaii practically next door?

YVR has a lot of important destinations (domestic, TB, Asia/Oceania, Europe) covered. If the worst thing that you can say about it is that you might need to make two stops en route to Uruguay or whatever, then that isn't much of an indictment.

SignalHillHiker Jan 29, 2016 4:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7317733)
Wont bring back UA though. A lot of American regional operators can't even fly CAT II approaches, much less CAT III.

Didn't think of that. Can all Air Canada/WestJet flights land using that? It'd suck if we spent all this money and the planes themselves can't use the tech.

jmt18325 Jan 29, 2016 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7317778)
Good point. Hawaii is only marginally longer flying time from YVR than the Caribbean is from central Canada (QC/ON, even MB/SK), but it's a million times better anyway as far as vacation destinations go.

Ditto Cabo and PV. Probably the best places that you could go south of Canada (especially PV). The humidity is far less, the people are easier to deal with, and you can actually go out at night.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7317777)
It is not always a case of Occam's Razor. Sometimes a plane with less passengers if more profitable than a plane with more passengers because the plane with fewer passengers has passengers sitting in the most lucrative seats. If the flights from Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver are bringing in more dollars to the economy than the flights from Beijing, Doha and London, I'd take the economic boost over the prestige. While international passenger at Canadian airports are not automatically spending their money elsewhere, they are not automatically spending their money in Canada either.

If you say so... I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight... :rolleyes: give your head a shake

Riise Jan 29, 2016 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317802)
I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight

It's one of the cases where the international flight will be more lucrative than the transborder flight. Did I say that these cases do not exist or that they are not always the case? The latter is my point of contention, it is not always the case but is presented as such. Even more frustratingly, it is brought up when economic impact isn't even part of the conversation. You most certainly know what I'm getting at.

thenoflyzone Jan 29, 2016 8:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7317781)
Didn't think of that. Can all Air Canada/WestJet flights land using that? It'd suck if we spent all this money and the planes themselves can't use the tech.

Yes. AC mainline (except for the E190s) and WS (737s/767s) can fly CAT III approaches. Porter/Encore Q400s and AC's E190s need a HGS (Head-Up Guidance system), as the planes are not Autoland equipped.

Dont know if AC's E190s have the HGS. Probably not. I know Jetblue does, but they dont fly to YYT ;)

All in all, the CAT III was needed at YYT. It was a good move !

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7317778)
Who in their right mind in BC would be thinking about Cuba when you have Hawaii practically next door?

Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317802)
If you say so... I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight... :rolleyes: give your head a shake

Sure, but what's more lucrative, a Calgary - Toronto flight or a Montreal - Cancun. Your example goes both ways.

Some intl flights are huge for business, and so are some domestic. Vice versa, some intl flights just siphon money away from the local economy, as do some domestic. It's really a flight by flight basis.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318225)
Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.



Sure, but what's more lucrative, a Calgary - Toronto flight or a Montreal - Cancun. Your example goes both ways.

Some intl flights are huge for business, and so are some domestic. Vice versa, some intl flights just siphon money away from the local economy, as do some domestic. It's really a flight by flight basis.

You're right, but notice I never mentioned leisure flights to the Carribeans, which obviously don't bring much economic value even though they're considered as international. Which is why carriers like Cubana and Aeromexico aren't included in the international list.

My point was referring more to important international destinations like Europe and Asia.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318225)
Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.

Maybe you and a small handful of others in Vancouver are interested in that experience. However, the reality is that planes going down to Cuba are full of vacationers looking to lie on the beach, and there are places to do that where you don't have to expect to spend half your vacation on the toilet, or playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7318263)
Maybe you and a small handful of others in Vancouver are interested in that experience. However, the reality is that planes going down to Cuba are full of vacationers looking to lie on the beach, and there are places to do that where you don't have to expect to spend half your vacation on the toilet, or playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food. I would imagine it's people like that who "in their right mind" would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7318252)
You're right, but notice I never mentioned leisure flights to the Carribeans, which obviously don't bring much economic value even though they're considered as international. Which is why carriers like Cubana and Aeromexico aren't included in the international list.

My point was referring more to important international destinations like Europe and Asia.

No but you did say "More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that."

And I'm saying it's nowhere near as simple as that. International PAX as a statistic comes in all shapes and sizes. It's really too bad YUL doesn't break out their sun flying from their wide body international, because if they did I bet their international number would drop significantly.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318282)
I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food. I would imagine it's people like that who "in their right mind" would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii.

If there were more of you, the flights would exist, simple as that.

Mass tourism and all inclusives are what fill planes headed down there. And the point is there are places that offer a better experience of that kind, and are much better situated in relation to Vancouver.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:38 PM

Naturally. You just asked who would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii, and I think there are quite a few very rational people who would desire that experience.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318297)
Naturally. You just asked who would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii, and I think there are quite a few very rational people who would desire that experience.

And that handful of people can keep on connecting in Toronto or wherever. Meanwhile, the people wasting their lives on beach vacations will head to places more convenient and that offer a much better experience in that regard than Cuba.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318289)
No but you did say "More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that."

And I'm saying it's nowhere near as simple as that. International PAX as a statistic comes in all shapes and sizes. It's really too bad YUL doesn't break out their sun flying from their wide body international, because if they did I bet their international number would drop significantly.

Well if you separate all the Chinese people in Vancouver who go home to visit their families from the rest, you get different numbers as well... This works pretty much everywhere.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7318305)
Well if you separate all the Chinese people in Vancouver who go home to visit their families from the rest, you get different numbers as well... This works pretty much everywhere.

Huh? I'm tabling about separating an A319 carrying all inclusive passengers to a overgrown beach town, not a 777-300 connecting to one of the biggest most influential cities on the planet.

We were talking about separating out big economy flights. Sun flying is not that and a YVR-PEK or PVG most definitely is.

If you're going to bring that up, I'd imagine YVR sees more of the widebody, big money international flights than YUL does. For all YULs big international numbers, so much of it is made up of narrow body sun flying.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318339)
If you're going to bring that up, I'd imagine YVR sees more of the widebody, big money international flights than YUL does. For all YULs big international numbers, so much of it is made up of narrow body sun flying.

And your source is?

LeftCoaster Jan 30, 2016 12:17 AM

My source is mainly comparing the list compiled by G.S with the list I keep.

I believe they are both quite accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7314177)

http://i.imgur.com/WCR0BUQ.png?1

Looks to me like weekly intl widebody flights are as follows (I removed Aeromexico & AC to MEX and Wow Air to KEF):

YVR: 258
YUL: 244

As you can see from the list, not only does YVR see more widebody intercontinental flights, the planes tend to be larger as well.

Johnny Aussie Jan 30, 2016 12:38 AM

The Cuba over the Hawaii thing? I used to go to Hawaii a lot when I lived in Canada. I loved the mix of rustic with a bit of the upmarket . I hadn't been in over 10 years and was just there in December 2014. I was so disappointed that Kuhio and Kalakaua have just been over run with the same high end stores as anywhere else. Has really lost its unique charm that I used to love. No desire to go back for awhile unless we head to one of the other Islands. I love the less popular places in SE Asia. But I also love the more popular places in SE Asia. Bali is another example that is slowly losing its appeal too. There are still a few decent areas that have a unique charm but with so many other options close by I know what I'd pick. I realise everybody has different tastes when it comes to sun destination holidays but that's just my two cents. Despite SE Asia being such a long way to travel from Canada I would still encourage it :) and it's cheaper for us to go there than most Aussie tropical places.

I agree I would like to see the breakdown of international passengers by region for all Canadian airports. I would also like to see it broken down further by Canadian originating pax and visitors. I have a feeling this data would paint a completely different picture when comparing international numbers. Another example, I know YEG is focusing on its large increase in International pax. But if you put a 14% increase in perspective that increase is coming off a really low base. Also a lot of that increase has been due to increased sun destination flights. European capacity has been a wash with AC/TS pulling out but offset by KL and FI coming in. And Westjet's entry is just replacing the last of AC's LHR capacity being axed. In fact capacity to Europe as it stands will be slightly lower this summer as KL and FI are status quo for 2016. Sunwing is also pulling back to four weekly again this summer too.

Johnny Aussie Jan 30, 2016 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318414)
My source is mainly comparing the list compiled by G.S with the list I keep.

Looks to me like weekly intl widebody flights are as follows (I removed Aeromexico & AC to MEX and Wow Air to KEF):

YVR: 258
YUL: 244

As you can see from the list, not only does YVR see more widebody intercontinental flights, the planes tend to be larger as well.

Just be careful as three of those Chinese airlines haven't been approved yet and I would think only one Tianjin will be approved anyway.

Factoring that in I would say YVR and YUL would be on par with each other for weekly flights with perhaps YVR tending to, on average, slightly more seats per aircraft.

Klazu Jan 30, 2016 1:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318282)
I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food.

I definitely want to see Cuba before they Americanize it with McDonald's on every corner. I don't care for their resorts or beaches, so also in my books a trip to Cuba != Hawaii. Totally different type of destination to vacation.

jmt18325 Jan 30, 2016 2:15 AM

Vancouver has Puerto Vallarta. In PV, I didn't (and wouldn't) stay in a resort. Vancouver isn't near the Caribbean, and it's not cold. It's as simple as that.

jthetzel Jan 30, 2016 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7318263)
playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

Off-topic, but just wanted to mention that food-borne botulism is very rare and is not spread through consumption of poultry. The bacteria that produces the toxin needs a low-oxygen environment to grow, so outbreaks are classically associated with poor canning methods. Birds themselves can become infected with botulism (e.g. through eating decomposing stuff in marshlands), but it wouldn't be transmitted to humans, unless you have a habit of eating decomposing birds in low-oxygen environments. If you do find yourself with a nagging case of botulism, you most likely are a very dedicated user of intravenous heroin.


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