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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Rico Rommheim Jan 15, 2018 8:58 PM

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Johnny Aussie Jan 15, 2018 9:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047364)
An international destination is an international destination. Whether it's Varadero or Shenzhen is irrelevant. Vancouver has a more temperate climate, hence it's citizens dont feel the need to flee it in winter.

It's currently -23C in YUL and we got 36 cm of snow 3 days ago. We've had over 100 cm so far this year, and winter is nowhere near over. Where would you go if you could fly out tomorrow for one week?

Yes. As is Boston, Honolulu and Anchorage... all international from Canada. And looking at factual statistics... the gap between YVR and YUL ttl international has really blown out.

In 2014 YVR exceeded YUL by only 135,000 intl pax for the whole year. YTD 2017 that gap has grown to well over 1,000,000 already. That should increase even more once December 2017 figures are released. Whether it includes Transborder or not for global comparison reasons especially, total international includes all international flights (eg takes off in one country and lands in a different country). Looking at just even non-Transborder international in 2014 YUL exceeded YVR by 1,000,000 in 2017 YTD The gap is down to 720,000 and will shrink most likely once December figures are released. So "diverse" or not YVR is clearly the second largest international airport in Canada hands down. And YVR has 23 long-haul intl carriers vs 16 at YUL.

DrNest Jan 15, 2018 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8047650)
Oh no, are they trying again to expand the runway again to bring in the not so whisper silent jets? Not surprised as we are about to head into an election race in Toronto. No doubt Doug Ford will be a champion of big business over a better quality of living.

I certainly do hope they extend the runway. And not just to the extent in the picture you posted, but a good few thousand feet extra so that Medium jets can use the runway to appreciable destinations.
I've never understood the mentality of moving to within fairly close of an airport, then complaining that the aircraft using the airport are disturbing the peace.
And better quality of living is subjective. For many folks being able to get from their downtown condo to the airport in a few minutes then a flight will beat the hassle of getting to Pearson and its longer security lines.

thenoflyzone Jan 15, 2018 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047882)
Yes. As is Boston, Honolulu and Anchorage... all international from Canada. And looking at factual statistics... the gap between YVR and YUL ttl international has really blown out.

In 2014 YVR exceeded YUL by only 135,000 intl pax for the whole year. YTD 2017 that gap has grown to well over 1,000,000 already. That should increase even more once December 2017 figures are released. Whether it includes Transborder or not for global comparison reasons especially, total international includes all international flights (eg takes off in one country and lands in a different country). Looking at just even non-Transborder international in 2014 YUL exceeded YVR by 1,000,000 in 2017 YTD The gap is down to 720,000 and will shrink most likely once December figures are released. So "diverse" or not YVR is clearly the second largest international airport in Canada hands down. And YVR has 23 long-haul intl carriers vs 16 at YUL.

Except for your foreign long haul airline count, all factually correct, and nothing in there that I have refuted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047882)
And YVR has 23 long-haul intl carriers vs 16 at YUL.

You missed a few for YUL, which will have 18 by next summer. If you're counting Iceland (and therefore Icelandair) as long haul, which you did for YVR, then you need to count Copa for YUL, as PTY is farther from YUL than KEF.

And 8 of YVR's 23 are from a single country. I'll let you guess which one. 5 or 6 of those 8 can be considered the same airline, for all intents and purposes, as they are all government owned. Further solidifying my point that YVR is mostly about the US and "that" country. That's all I was trying to say.

thenoflyzone Jan 15, 2018 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8047892)
I certainly do hope they extend the runway. And not just to the extent in the picture you posted, but a good few thousand feet extra so that Medium jets can use the runway to appreciable destinations.
I've never understood the mentality of moving to within fairly close of an airport, then complaining that the aircraft using the airport are disturbing the peace.
And better quality of living is subjective. For many folks being able to get from their downtown condo to the airport in a few minutes then a flight will beat the hassle of getting to Pearson and its longer security lines.

I agree, and hope the runway is extended as well. It's only positives for Canada, Toronto and Bombardier. It will create jobs in Toronto, it will help Porter grow and will help BBD sell more CSeries. There are no negatives. The Qs make more noise than the CSeries. So these NIMBYs should have no voice whatsoever in this matter. The airport has been there since 1939, and the flight tracks already avoid downtown Toronto.

I blame the conservative government of Harper for giving so much power to a few NIMBYs.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rait...533751c2b7f218

These same NIMBYs are creating massive headaches for us here at YUL, an airport that has been around since 1941.

Johnny Aussie Jan 15, 2018 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047914)
Except for your foreign long haul airline count, all factually correct, and nothing in there that I have refuted.



You missed a few for YUL, which will have 18 by next summer. If you're counting Iceland (and therefore Icelandair) as long haul, which you did for YVR, then you need to count Copa for YUL, as PTY is farther from YUL than KEF.

And 8 of YVR's 23 are from a single country. I'll let you guess which one. 5 or 6 of those 8 can be considered the same airline, for all intents and purposes, as they are all government owned. Further solidifying my point that YVR is mostly about the US and "that" country. That's all I was trying to say.

I should have clarified, foreign carriers outside NA. anyway... YVR should be getting a couple more as well this year (at least). But yes, international is international. Still very impressive for a city of only 2.5 million!

YVR's substantial international terminal expansion starting now should help pave the way for even more services down the track keeping YVR nice and competitive for years to come.

A lot of this will be brought up at the Vancouver Board of Trade annual YVR focussed meeting next week.

https://www.boardoftrade.com/events/...ents/1185-6215

Exciting times ahead continuing at YVR!

nname Jan 15, 2018 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047914)
And 8 of YVR's 23 are from a single country. I'll let you guess which one. 5 or 6 of those 8 can be considered the same airline, for all intents and purposes, as they are all government owned. Further solidifying my point that YVR is mostly about the US and "that" country. That's all I was trying to say.

Only 3 of the 8 are government owned.

Well, there are far fewer countries within flying range from the other side of Pacific compared to the Atlantic... what can you expect?

isaidso Jan 16, 2018 1:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8047650)

Fantastic news. I love Billy Bishop airport. My only complaint is that I can't fly to the west coast or Europe from there.

isaidso Jan 16, 2018 1:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047724)

YYZ-YUL is not even in the top 20 in the world.

MEL-SYD, BNE-SYD and MEL-BNE are though.

Quite right although Canada is an outlier in not having a true discount carrier. We will eventually and that should boost passenger traffic substantially.

WhipperSnapper Jan 16, 2018 2:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8047892)
I certainly do hope they extend the runway. And not just to the extent in the picture you posted, but a good few thousand feet extra so that Medium jets can use the runway to appreciable destinations.
I've never understood the mentality of moving to within fairly close of an airport, then complaining that the aircraft using the airport are disturbing the peace.
And better quality of living is subjective. For many folks being able to get from their downtown condo to the airport in a few minutes then a flight will beat the hassle of getting to Pearson and its longer security lines.

I've lived directly under a YTZ flight plan for a few years now. I've also been along Harbourfront during landings and takeovers and within several condos. It's much louder where I am kilometres away than from Harbourfront. My gut tells me the Harbourfront community complaints are not because they are being disrupted by excessive noise but, they just don't like seeing an active airport.

I hope they do expand and if it means quieter jets than even better. It's a great asset for the downtown commercial community namely our largest tenants and employers who have aggressively pushed south since 2008.

kwoldtimer Jan 16, 2018 3:06 AM

Has anything changed that would lead one to think that the runway expansion would be approved this time? :shrug:

wave46 Jan 16, 2018 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 8048187)
Has anything changed that would lead one to think that the runway expansion would be approved this time? :shrug:

I'm not sure why they're floating the idea - unless there's a change in government at a federal level, it's a dead proposal.

DrNest Jan 16, 2018 4:16 AM

With an election coming up, I wouldn't be surprised if the candidates are trying to get a feel for where the majority stand with regards go/no-go to a runway expansion. It would then be a key campaign matter under the "improve transportation" or "appease the NIMBYs" whichever they decide will get the most votes.

SkahHigh Jan 16, 2018 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8047861)
Again if we are talking YYZ, Porter's flights don't factor in at all, they don't fly from Pearson. And Transat's barely on the YYZ-YUL route, save for a couple token flights same as YVR-YYZ, YUL-YVR, etc. The only two players are AC and WS, and both airlines fly smaller aircraft than on YYZ-YVR, and in summer at least, frequencies are also higher on YYZ-YVR

We’re talking about a corridor. Stop arguing about semantics... Unless you give me official numbers that back up your claims, no the Van-Toronto corridor is not busier than the Mon-Toronto one, for very obvious reasons.

ghYHZ Jan 16, 2018 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 8048544)
We’re talking about a corridor. Stop arguing about semantics...

Yes…..certainly it’s a Corridor. Can’t think of the number of times I’ve arrived at YTZ and left from YYZ (or reverse). With the UP Express now….one is just as convenient as the other. And if it’s a Friday….you are more likely to find me in Business Class on VIA. (also a player in that corridor) Just a nice relaxing way to unwind on the way home!

Lancaster Jan 17, 2018 4:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047914)
And 8 of YVR's 23 are from a single country. I'll let you guess which one. 5 or 6 of those 8 can be considered the same airline, for all intents and purposes, as they are all government owned. Further solidifying my point that YVR is mostly about the US and "that" country. That's all I was trying to say.

I mean, to be fair, "that" country also accounts for 1.38 billion people - more than the entire population of Europe and South America. And YUL has more carriers from those two continents than YVR does from that one country. Is it fair to compare one country to two unique continents? No. But neither is downplaying having a significant presence in the most populous country in the world.

I think we can all agree that each of YVR and YUL possess above-average connectivity for cities their size. And those connections are beneficial to their local economies and helping AC become a stronger global airline. Could be worse - we could talking about CVG and how they lost over 66% of their traffic after Delta pulled the plug.

Johnny Aussie Jan 17, 2018 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8049480)
I mean, to be fair, "that" country also accounts for 1.38 billion people - more than the entire population of Europe and South America. And YUL has more carriers from those two continents than YVR does from that one country. Is it fair to compare one country to two unique continents? No. But neither is downplaying having a significant presence in the most populous country in the world.

I think we can all agree that each of YVR and YUL possess above-average connectivity for cities their size. And those connections are beneficial to their local economies and helping AC become a stronger global airline. Could be worse - we could talking about CVG and how they lost over 66% of their traffic after Delta pulled the plug.

Or YUL’s high connectivity to French speaking cities in Europe and Africa. Makes sense doesn’t it? So to be fair we could nit pick why there are more flights to certain regions from certain places for anywhere really. The fact remains the gap between YVR’s and YUL’s international figures, no matter how you dissect it, is growing significantly. 3 years ago that difference was only 135,000 now well over 1,000,000. Whether it stays that way, grows or shrinks.... who knows.

cyeg66 Jan 17, 2018 2:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047969)
I blame the conservative government of Harper for giving so much power to a few NIMBYs.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/rait...533751c2b7f218

These same NIMBYs are creating massive headaches for us here at YUL, an airport that has been around since 1941.

Agree 100%. Raitt's raping of noise regulations and consequently emboldened NIMBYism is nothing more than a shiny new set of handcuffs on efficient airport operations and expansion plans i.e. it's a significant step backward. You know the term, sometimes poeple don't know what's good for them. I can't remember the exact figure but for last year, something well north of 80% of all air traffic noise complaints around YYC were logged/called in by exactly two people. They might be flat-earthers and/or chemtrail conspiracy theorists also, for that matter, 'cause they're clearly just as nuts. :koko: That said, because of this "good neighbour" policy, their flat-foreheaded agenda overrules that of the airport's, and most importantly, the users of the airport.

Acajack Jan 17, 2018 2:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8049526)
Or YUL’s high connectivity to French speaking cities in Europe and Africa. Makes sense doesn’t it? So to be fair we could nit pick why there are more flights to certain regions from certain places for anywhere really. The fact remains the gap between YVR’s and YUL’s international figures, no matter how you dissect it, is growing significantly. 3 years ago that difference was only 135,000 now well over 1,000,000. Whether it stays that way, grows or shrinks.... who knows.

It actually reminds me of the "diversity" debate between Montreal and Vancouver, where Vancouver's foreign-born population share (about 50%) is often given as proof of it being more "diverse" than Montreal (about 25%).

Lancaster Jan 17, 2018 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8049526)
Or YUL’s high connectivity to French speaking cities in Europe and Africa. Makes sense doesn’t it? So to be fair we could nit pick why there are more flights to certain regions from certain places for anywhere really. The fact remains the gap between YVR’s and YUL’s international figures, no matter how you dissect it, is growing significantly. 3 years ago that difference was only 135,000 now well over 1,000,000. Whether it stays that way, grows or shrinks.... who knows.

I personally think YUL has way more room to grow, despite its proximity to YYZ. AC seems reluctant to establishing routes to not so common Chinese cities from YVR. If that trend keeps up, maybe they build frequencies to Asia from YUL. YUL and YYZ have the benefit of connectivity to South America and could become the Asia to Americas gateway that YVR isn't.


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