Indeed. Along with those, convincing international golfers to travel to the GTA is a lot easier than convincing them to travel to Cape Breton or wherever else the Canadian Open may end up, even if those Cape Breton courses are insanely nice.

Sorta. It probably wouldn't be that hard to convince them to travel to Montreal or southwestern BC. :uhh:

The last time the Canadian Open was played outside of the GTA, Montreal, or Vancouver was 1976, when it was played in Windsor. So yes.

I've read about some proposals to put the Cdn Open on the west coast when the US Open is out west since they'll now be on back to back weekends.

2019 and 2023 US Opens are at Pebble Beach and LA CC respectively. Unfortunately, for Shaughnessey in Vancouver or that Mickelson designed course in Calgary, the 2019 and 2023 Canadian Opens are already set for Ancaster in Hamilton.

Until Telus or Enbridge become title sponsor, there's not much chance it's going out west anytime soon.

Interesting you should bring up corporate sponsorships and their impact on locations. I think that's a fairly big factor, perhaps increasingly so.

If that's the case going forward I doubt we'll see the Canadian Open very often in Montreal in the future. Pro golf is fairly marginal in terms of interest in Quebec. I never hear people in my entourage talking about it, and we're mostly white collar guys. (Some of whom even play occasionally.) So it's doubtful a big Quebec-based sponsor would hitch its wagon to the Canadian Open. Unless it was one with a much broader Canadian reach like Air Canada.

Well, that's the shame of it. Some of the best courses in Canada are on the east coast (especially PEI & CB). I understand the business rationale, but it's a pity that the rest of the world doesn't get to see that Canada has courses every bit as spectacular as Pebble Beach.........

Actually on the official corporate paperwork for RBC the headquarters is in Montreal. But we all know that bank is run out of Toronto and that that's where the true HQ is.

Stop building nice golf courses in the middle of nowhere near no major population centre and maybe the World would see them more often. :P

Comparatively, Pebble Beach is only roughly an hour outside of the Bay Area. The same cannot be said for Cape Breton.

Wasn't every place that is today "somewhere" at one time or another "in the middle of nowhere"?

Cape Breton is a 57 hour drive from San Francisco.

Shit, no wonder Cabot never hosts the Canadian Open. :haha:

The ol' CFL double standard at work yet again. Johnny "Canadian" Football's debut (for one of the worst teams in recent memory) gets a very solid 730k total eyeballs (TSN/RDS) but it doesn't meet the imaginary "expectations"

And the huge Saskatchewan number is conveniently downplayed to the supposed Manziel "failure"

TSN ratings for Manziel’s debut fall short of expectations
Drew Edwards 3downnation August 7, 2018

While Johnny Manziel may have posted a big TV number for ESPN in the United States – relative to their usual audience – the ratings in Canada were far less impressive.

Manziel’s debut as the starting quarterback for the Montreal Alouettes against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats last Friday drew just 575,200 viewers for TSN. According to the CFL, another 155,000 people watched on RDS.

While the TSN audience was almost 13 per cent higher than the league average through the first seven weeks of the season, it is far less than the massive number most people were anticipating.

It wasn’t even the most-watched CFL game of the week. Saskatchewan’s matchup with Edmonton on Thursday evening did a huge 907,800 on TSN making it the top-rated game of the season by a wide margin.

Week 8 TSN English-language ratings

Thursday
Ottawa at Toronto: 428,000

Thursday
Saskatchewan at Edmonton: 907,800

Friday
Hamilton at Montreal: 730,000 (575,200 TSN plus 155,000 RDS)

Saturday
B.C. at Calgary: 462,700

Johnny Manziel’s debut draws highest CFL rating ever on ESPN
3Down Staff August 7, 2018

Johnny Manziel’s highly anticipated CFL debut was reflected in the comparatively large United States television ratings.

The 2012 Heisman Trophy winner made his first CFL start last Friday and the game was carried in the USA on ESPN2. Manziel threw four interceptions as his Montreal Alouettes were beaten down by the Hamilton Tiger-Cats 50-11. Americans tuned in to watch in droves.

https://i.imgur.com/fMJntCo.png

That made it the most-watched game for ESPN since it started showing CFL contests in 1980. The previous record was a Saskatchewan-Edmonton game in June 2013 that drew an average of 347,000 viewers on ESPN2.

Over 130,000 more viewers saw Manziel’s first CFL start than any other CFL game on ESPN outlets in 2018 – all CFL games are being shown on ESPN2, ESPNNews or ESPN+. The 2017 Grey Cup game between the Calgary Stampeders and Toronto Argonauts drew 237,000 viewers.

Manziel beat out The Basketball Tournament final which has a $2 million in winner-take-all cash prize on the main ESPN channel head-to-head.

Do the MLS tv ratings not get reported? I am interested in seeing what ratings Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver get. I am sure they have increased substantially since TSC’s championship season along with this year being a World Cup of Soccer year, I’m sure we interest has spiked.

Johnny Football's hype is largely USA based. USA College football is almost religion down there, and Johnny Manziel is Sports leading story down there. How many Canadian know the ins and outs of his Texas A&M days? Not many, he isn't going to get the buzz up here and I (hope) Canadian TV executives knew that.

They didn't used to get reported because they were so low. The top 20 rated weekly sports broadcasts used to bottom out at 100k viewers, MLS seldom made the list. And at that time the Caps almost always out-rated TFC.

Two or three years before their championship season TFC averaged 38k viewers, not in Toronto, not in Ontario, but for all of Canada. TSN was close to cancelling the contract. In their championship season they almost doubled their regular season ratings from the year before from 58k to 95k IIRC.

That's a long way from the Manziel "failure" of 730k

I think the top watched sports broadcast in Canada in recent weeks is American Ninja Warrior.

Last week it had 1,104,00 viewers. I think the only sports broadcast in the top weekly 30 this summer besides Blue Jays Baseball and the FIFA WC .

I love ANW!

• Video Link

I find it hard to believe TFC doesn’t get good ratings, it seems they have a very supportive fan base.

Also, why do they average 80% capacity after a championship season, with the greatest player in MLS history. I don’t believe they’ve had a sellout this seaso... not to say they don’t consistently get good turnouts though.

A fan base that doesn't extend beyond the shadow of the stadium.

Actually part of it is a strange conundrum, unlike the history of hockey and the many years of the two solitudes Leafs and Habs, the splitting of the three Canadian MLS teams has virtually killed any interest in the ROC. Each team's fanbase is basically relegated to their city and even if they were lucky their province. They just don't seem to go beyond that.

I think that has to do with soccer culture at large. People who come from other countries and are soccer fans are probably used to cheering for local teams, because every city has a local team. So to come to a non-Big 3 city here and then suddenly have to throw your support to a city across the country is a little strange, I imagine.

Course that could be completely out to lunch as well. If there is anything that is going to make soccer a more popular spectator sport in the rest of the country, it is the CPL.

IIRC capacity is technically listed somewhere around 28K. I think TFC have two sellouts on the season (one in MLS play and one in CONCACAF play). Given the added home dates from Champions League and the Canadian Championship the TFC total attendance for the year if looking just at MLS matches is a bit deceiving. There's been something like six additional home matches on top of the normal MLS schedule.

Grassroots plays a big role in soccer fandom as a whole, as you pointed out. CPL teams beyond York haven't been having much difficulty in getting good numbers out for ticket deposits and friendly matches. Soccer in Canada reaches well beyond the simple grasp of MLS.

Roger Federer's absence: Rogers Cup draws lower attendance than 2017

AUGUST 14, 2018 08:10
by LUIGI GATTO

In 2017, 216,000 people attended the Rogers Cup in Montreal. This year, in Toronto, the number was much lower and Roger Federer's absence played a part in it, as well as the rain. Speaking during a conference call on Sunday to reporters, the tournament director Karl Hale still showed his satisfaction for how the event went. 'We're over 150,000 attendance for the week,' Hale said. 'Something we're really proud of, especially with the rain. We would have beat that tremendously. So Rob Swan who leads that department does a tremendous job, and we're really happy with it,' said Hale.

Commenting on the tournament development, Hale added: 'The grandstand upgrading to 1,000 more seats to 4,000 and the covered area was a huge hit for the fans. Especially when we had to move Denis over there, we needed those seats. So it worked out great throughout the week.

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tenni...nce-than-2017/

I managed to catch that Shapovalov match on Grandstand (as well as all the Wednesday rain) and it was a really great atmosphere as a whole. Stadium felt tight and intimate and having it at capacity for the match added to the overall atmosphere. A nice supplementary stadium to Aviva.

CFL Commissioner Ambrosie was on TSN1040 this morning and gave some insight into some marketing and branding work the CFL is doing:

• The conversation was prompted by a poll asking listeners how to improve gameday experience at BC Lions games and that led into a discussion surrounding the league's three big markets (Vancouver/Toronto/Montreal). There seemed to be some tacit understanding that there's difficulties and differences in those cities that need to be acknowledged.
  
• The league is currently working on a strategy specifically tailored to large markets and they're moving away from a one-size-fits-all attitude to one that specifies unique attributes in each market. Ambrosie mentioned demographics more than once, as well as how people get to games, where they're coming from, and how the scheduling can be better tailored to people in the local area.
• Specific to Vancouver, tickets are currently available at $20 for adults and $10 for children. The hosts mentioned $5 beers as suggested by a listener prior to Ambrosie calling in but this cannot be done due to the lease agreement at BC Place. [The Argos are currently running $5 beer at games.] Seems to be issues regarding getting people to come into Vancouver for games.
  
• TV ratings on TSN are up 2% on the year, up 17% in the 18-49 demographic.
• Ambrosie stressed that the league has begun working on an international strategy to attract international players and viewers. Specifically mentioned gridiron football in Japan and Mexico as two examples and said they should be aiming to attract more international players into the CFL. Really stressed making the CFL a global game.

Interview can be found here.

Its not going to be fixed overnight, but I believe Ambrosie gets it more than most. He is a details guys with a great business acumen and the best thing to happen to this league in a long time.....
I listened to that show too and many of the suggestions for what to do and it still frustrates me that people think it is too expensive (it's not), saying the food is not as good as Rogers Arena or even the Whitecaps. You can find almost everything these including vegan dishes.
Beer prices, I get it, I would like it to be cheaper too, but almost ALL stadium beer is expensive.

The biggest thing for me is atmosphere, the more people there, the better the atmosphere and all that other stuff does not matter as much
I think BC needs more Saturday at 4pm games. Better to get out of town folks as well as families with children to a game and home at a reasonable time, and try to get a deal with BC transit to include transit as well.

RE: Beer Prices

That is the issue you get when you chase budget fans and families, nobody should go to a sports game and expecting rock bottom beer prices as you are typically getting gouged for food and beverages. Very silly this is brought up as an issue from fans. Also, the Toronto model should not be used as an example to emulate as they are A/B testing various strategies to get people into the seats.

Overall splitting the marketing strategies for the major metros versus the rest of the CFL markets is wise. The Big 3 cities face unique challenges which are focused primarily on demographics that the rest of the league does not share.

Next, the international approach is unique and not one I have heard. My only hesitation is that we see the behemoth of the NFL struggle to "grow the game" internationally. Japan is used as an example as I recall they have some smaller leagues creeping up getting teens on the football field. The core issue is that for many international locations, where it extends beyond casual watching on TV, you get into teens playing "Gridiron American Football" with 4 downs and typical field sizes. In many places, they simply just paint the line on a soccer field and calls it a day, won't be easy to shift CFL infrastructure to overseas. If the goal is just to market a sports entertainment product then that is much different. From the NFL's experience, they were not able to flip over markets until the locals actually had enough grasp of the sport and made attempts to play. Germany, for example, is the strongest football market outside of North America as they have a (now) tradition of little leagues where people are playing actual Gridiron football. When the NFL experimented with the Euro League Germany was the only place that got any traction.

I bring up the NFL of course as they have attempted (and failed) many times are growing the international scope of the league. They are doubling down on London but I don't see anything there. NFL is looking to force itself into that market when it is largely just USA expats who attend the games.

Random... from what I have heard from my friends in South America Gridiron football has a sizeable following in Brazil, it isn't front page or top of the radar but there is a noticeable amount of folks who enjoy Gridiron football down there.

CFL News‏
@CFL_News
2m2 minutes ago
"Overall our TV ratings are up 2% this year.

But importantly the 17-49 year age group is up 17%." - @RandyAmbrosie

As of Week 10 CFL ratings are up 4% over 2017 on TSN. Number has been floating around 2%-4% all season.

http://3downnation.com/2018/08/23/cf...-audience-tsn/

When I worked for Hockey Night in Canada 5 years ago it was well known that the second highest rating sport the CBC broadcast after hockey was curling. I only found that out from my time there, I never would have guessed that.

I've long wondered why curling was on television all the time. I assumed it was because some head honcho at CBC Sports is a curler and it was cheap to produce.

Looks like we're stuck with it on television till the younger generations become the demographic majority. I doubt they want to watch it.

Young people have a funny habit of eventually getting old ;)

Seriously, it's like golf. Go ask the typical 65 year old golf viewer whether they watched golf 40 years ago.

A surprising number of young people watch curling even in Toronto, the only thing i like about it is the hot chicks though. I can understand its appeal if you're really really bored, kind of like baseball.

What kind of ratings does darts get? I have a hard time tuning in to darts. I’m not sure why I see it consistently on TV

I generally agree but interest in certain things can be lost over generations. This could happen to curling in Canada especially since it has no cred in the US.

Curling is generally one of the most popular Olympic viewing sports, globally.

Little known fact

“Somewhere over half of NBC’s entire coverage package of the Olympics is going to be curling,” said Kevin Martin, who will be in Pyeongchang as a colour commentator. “It’s absolutely amazing.

“CBC told me that in Canada 45% of their overall hours of coverage of the entire Olympics will be curling. When CBC told me that, I thought, ‘Well, I wonder how much it is at NBC?’ So I was talking to Jim Carr, one of the producers, and he said it’s around 50%, maybe a hair over 50%. That’s quite the number.”

Curl power: Olympic sport is sweeping up fans
Due to Games, ‘shuffleboard on ice’ is drawing fans in bars, Google searches
Mike Celizic TODAY contributor 2/25/2010

For four years at a time, curling is played with great dedication in various countries around the world and no one notices. But during the Olympics, when entire broadcasting days are given over to matches on NBC’s sister networks USA, CNBC and MSNBC, the sport becomes a favorite.

Everybody wants to watch it — even in bars.

“It’s Friday night. Basketball games are on, and people want to watch curling,” said Gust Hookanson, co-owner of the Lion’s Head bar on Manhattan’s Upper West Side. “We have people that are requesting televisions — multiple televisions — to watch curling. Not the small sets on the side, but the big flat screens over the bar.”

Hookanson obliges the paying customers; a happy crowd is a profitable crowd. But the phenomenal popularity of curling with the viewing public caught him by surprise.

“I’m scratching my head,” he told TODAY. “It’s shuffleboard on ice.”

But when he thinks about it, it becomes clear. “People look at it and say, ‘Hey, I can do that. It’s like bowling,’ ” Hookanson said.

As people watch, they get out their smartphones to find out what the origin and rules of the game are on Google, Hookanson said. The statistics bear him out: Google reported this week that curling is the most-searched Olympic sport, beating out even women’s figure skating.

Full article

True but I do think the culture is changing. These young basketball/soccer fans might turn to golf instead of curling when they get older. That said, I can't sit through more than 2 minutes of golf either.

Baseball is all about the ritual of sitting at the ball park on a nice summer day, eating a hotdog, and drinking a beer while something cerebral happens on the field. It also appeals to analytical people who love statistics.

I didn't get baseball for years but kept going because it was a nice way to spend a lazy afternoon with friends. To my surprise after 5 years I'd become accustomed to the ritual, looked forward to going, knew who the players were, and started appreciating some the intricacies of the game.

There's a reason MLB draws 73 million in attendance. No other league or sport comes close. For comparison's sake, the NBA draws 22 million, NFL draws 18 million, and the Premier League draws 14.5 million fans/season.

Well 30 teams having 81 home games plays a big factor in MLB's total attendance numbers.

And they can sustain those numbers so that says something as to the game's popularity.

Seems to be a lot of ignorance about curling here. Just because it might be not in our own personal sphere of influence doesn't mean it isn't out there.

Someone mentioned hot chicks, well there used to be an old wrestling promoter axiom, where there are hot young chicks there are young guys so you want to attract young chicks with your product. It seems to me that curling is positioning itself like women's tennis and golf regarding sexuality, intentional or not.

Curling is popular enough that they added another Olympic event (which worked to the advantage of Canada this past Olympics)

It's not the same game I grew up with and that's cool because I like them both

• Video Link

Perhaps I should rephrase then. Curling could have trouble renewing its fan base in Canada because Canadians don't *think* Americans or anyone else pays attention to the sport.

I see where you're going with this, but I think it's not entirely accurate. It's not like curling's openly big here either, so I doubt those that do watch it do it for the cool factor.

I don't see the young generation watching less hockey either, even if the US doesn't care about it. The NBA still isn't popular at all outside of Toronto, relative to football or baseball or hockey. I've argued before that the NFL competes with the NHL now (at least in my anecdotal circles) but it's still close. I think Canadians care about what Americans like, and I think they care about what's big time and what's not (like with the CFL and NFL). But I don't think they try to emulate American tastes to a tee, not even the younger generation.

Hockey's gonna lose stature, as is curling, but it's not gonna disappear, and the same goes for our other cultural markers too. I don't think we'll get to a point where we consume entertainment exactly in the same ways that the Americans do. At least, not that soon.

Baseball doss not translate well on TV, the sport is best taken in live in person as you mentioned.

Baseball doss have 80 home dates so it bloats up its attendance numbers but what is impressive is that a league average of about 28k is sustained over such a long stretch of games.

Hockey interest does seem to be slowly going down, even if the U.S. does care enough about it to make it seem "big time" to Canadians who care about such things.

I obviously agree that hockey won't die out, and nor will curling.

In some cases, it's pretty darn close already, wouldn't you say? :P

In much of the country, curling's pretty big. People have posted recently about how it's been lucrative bread and butter content for TV networks, and over the years people have posted TV ratings that top 1 million which is excellent in Canada.

It doesn't rival for top spot but it's up there perhaps arguably in the top 5 spectator sports in Canada.

It's hard to distinguish between your two points, when I am out there in the real world.

For as long as I can remember, there is often a "eeewww" factor associated with anything that people perceive as being only popular in Canada. Vindication via popularity in the U.S. (or, lately, globally) is required in order for certain Canadians to take an interest in something homegrown.

As much as I think Ambrosie is an excellent commissioner, this international strategy appears very pie-in-the-sky. The reasons you've given are all valid.

I'd also add the very simple point that before getting the Japanese turned on to the CFL, let's get (more) Canadians turned on to the CFL first.

I agree, but I think there is a value to raising the CFL's profile in the USA (via ESPN) though.

1) - this is a potential cash cow for the CFL
2) - as per your point in the post above, if young hip Canadians see that the CFL is actually respected in the USA, this might make them take an interest in the league as well.

The CFL does have the potential to make further inroads in fan viewership in the States.

1) - the seasons don't completely overlap, and this gives Americans the chance for another couple of months of competitive football every year.
2) - the game (with it's slightly different rules) probably seems a little exotic to them. This might intrigue and stimulate aficionados of the game.

How typically "Canadian" of me... I wasn't thinking of the U.S. as "international"! :haha:

You're right.