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-   -   NEW YORK | (Grand Hyatt) 109 E. 42nd St. | 1,646 FT | 83 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum//showthread.php?t=237669)

Eidolon Feb 7, 2019 9:01 PM

NEW YORK | (Grand Hyatt) 109 E. 42nd St. | 1,646 FT | 83 FLOORS
 
New York’s Grand Hyatt Hotel to Be Torn Down
Developers plan to replace the hotel with a mixed-use tower totaling 2 million square feet
By Josh Barbanel
Feb. 7, 2019

Quote:

A development group has agreed to buy and tear down the Grand Hyatt New York, the glass-sheathed hotel by Grand Central Terminal that was Donald Trump’s first major Manhattan development, and replace it with a mixed-use project.

TF Cornerstone, a Manhattan developer, and MSD Partners, which manages the assets of Dell Technologies founder Michael Dell and his family, said they plan a new development totaling about 2 million square feet, which will include offices, retail and a new, scaled-down Grand Hyatt. They said the project would require the approval of the city and the state. It isn’t clear when demolition would begin or how tall the building would be.

It will be the fourth major tower planned or under development in east Midtown where the city rezoned the area in 2017 to encourage new office buildings there, along with transit and street improvements.

“It is solidifying that neighborhood’s pre-eminence as a business district for the 21st century,” said Alicia Glen, an outgoing deputy mayor who oversees housing and economic development, and who spearheaded the midtown rezoning.

To create such a large tower, the developers said they would use the remaining development rights, known as air rights, from Grand Central Terminal that they purchased in 2016 for an undisclosed amount
.
Looking forward to this!

Zapatan Feb 7, 2019 9:11 PM

2 Million SF?

Yes please

jackster99 Feb 7, 2019 9:21 PM

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but One Vanderbilt is 1.2 million square feet correct?

And both One Vanderbilt and this are roughly the same size lots I think, so yah, wow...this could be considerably taller

Hudson11 Feb 7, 2019 9:22 PM

the big concern that will draw a lot of hubbub is the proximity to the Chrysler Building. I hope they use a design that leans or set backs from 42nd street, to maximize views of Chrysler. Maybe something like the Leadenhall Building in London:

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8689/...b9a261a1_b.jpg
122 Leadenhall Street London by David Bank, on Flickr

Also, this is a very large building. 2 million SF sounds like a lot, but depending on the footprint, it may not reach supertall territory. Another reason to hope for a setback.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7452/...973b2436_b.jpg
Chrysler Building and Grand Hyatt New York at night by RJ DiBella, on Flickr

Crawford Feb 7, 2019 9:29 PM

So this makes four announced supertalls from the Grand Central rezoning- One Vanderbilt, Tower Fifth, Chase HQ, and Grand Hyatt. And the three where we have specs are 1400 ft.+

Then there's the Pfizer site, the MTA HQ site, the Roosevelt hotel site, and a half dozen or so sites along Park, and a few sites along Lex and 3rd. We could easily have a dozen neighborhood supertalls within a few years.

JMKeynes Feb 7, 2019 10:13 PM

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

chris08876 Feb 7, 2019 10:17 PM

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...37/333/adc.jpg

Great news. Future looks tall!

Zapatan Feb 7, 2019 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11 (Post 8465215)
the big concern that will draw a lot of hubbub is the proximity to the Chrysler Building. I hope they use a design that leans or set backs from 42nd street, to maximize views of Chrysler. Maybe something like the Leadenhall Building in London:

Also, this is a very large building. 2 million SF sounds like a lot, but depending on the footprint, it may not reach supertall territory. Another reason to hope for a setback.

The Chrysler building has had its time in the sun, it's not going anywhere. One Vanderbilt which is also much taller is pretty close too, although perhaps not quite as much.

2MSF for mixed use could pretty easily reach supertall territory but we shall see.

JMKeynes Feb 7, 2019 10:27 PM

Cravath is looking for 600K sf. This would be a good location!!! :cheers:

NYguy Feb 7, 2019 11:34 PM

When I first read the article in the Post, it was like I was dreaming...

https://nypost.com/2019/02/07/donald...-be-torn-down/

Quote:

The glass-sheathed tower — Donald Trump’s first major Manhattan project — is being bought out by developers who plan to raze it and replace it with a 2-million-square foot mixed-use space.

Quote:

The developers already own the air rights from Grand Central Terminal, which they purchased in 2016, and say they would use them to build the large tower.


Look out Hudson Yards, Midtown east strikes back.

NYguy Feb 7, 2019 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackster99 (Post 8465211)
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but One Vanderbilt is 1.2 million square feet correct?

And both One Vanderbilt and this are roughly the same size lots I think, so yah, wow...this could be considerably taller


I think Vandy is closer to 1.4 or 1.6 msf, or zoning square ft. The new tower wouldn't have the same design, or exact height. But imagining two major new towers above Grand Central brings this to mind...


http://a4.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1/1...KhUuvVA.r4.JPG



Even this doesn't seem as far fetched...


http://a4.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1/1...L9U.curbed.jpg

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 12:41 AM

If I had one bad thing to say about this development, its there goes our view of the Chrysler from the Vanderbilt deck...oh well, at least we'll get some time to enjoy it before anything rises here.


http://austin.culturemap.com/news/re...central-hyatt/

Austin billionaire's historic new investment will transform Manhattan skyline


By John Egan
Feb 7, 2019


Quote:

MSD Capital is teaming up with New York developer TF Cornerstone Inc. to buy the property, tear it down, and put up about 2 million square feet of new space, including offices, retail shops, and a scaled-down, 500-room Grand Hyatt.
Quote:

We look forward to the opportunity to bring a new icon to New York’s skyline and help advance the [city’s] goals for desperately needed new development and infrastructure in East Midtown,” says Jeremy Shell, a principal at TF Cornerstone.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-n...-idUSKCN1PW2XR

Quote:

The project marks a further step in the revitalization of east Midtown where a 1,401-foot (427-m) skyscraper, One Vanderbilt, is rising next to Grand Central on its west side, and JPMorgan Chase & Co plans to build a new headquarters nearby on Park Avenue.

State and city approval is required and construction financing must be arranged, the statement said.

Quote:

The project may deter potential tenants from relocating to Hudson Yards, a district rising on Manhattan’s West Side where a number of marquee companies have decided to relocate.

“This will be a draw for new office tenants and potentially lure tenants away that would have otherwise considered Hudson Yards,” said Myers Mermel, chief executive and co-founder of TenantWise, a real estate research and advisory firm.

“It will re-establish Midtown East as the pre-eminent office district,” he said.




https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/...0207130141.jpg
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-yor...wn-11549567095

Hudson11 Feb 8, 2019 12:47 AM

that visualization reminds me we still haven't heard much about the vacant lot at 520 Fifth either. That's another 900 footer to expect.

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 1:00 AM

Throwback...


https://news.vanderbilt.edu/vanderbi...ore-hotel_rgb/


https://s3.amazonaws.com/vu-news/van...1610496988.jpg



Some context...


http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...UeTteq.a1b.jpg



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...JP0zol.a1c.jpg



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...eSZ1r1.a2b.jpg

Busy Bee Feb 8, 2019 1:11 AM

I can't be the only one that's just as excited to see something destroyed that DJT had a hand in creating. The metaphor is deeply satisfying. Win-win.

streetscaper Feb 8, 2019 1:19 AM

The lot size looks pretty similar to One Vandy's, right?

BrownTown Feb 8, 2019 1:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8465551)
I can't be the only one that's just as excited to see something destroyed that DJT had a hand in creating. The metaphor is deeply satisfying. Win-win.

That seems awfully petty especially seeing as it was built before Trump was born and has no connection to Trump at this point in time. It's stupid news organizations are even tying this development to Trump when it has literally nothing to do with him. Just silly clickbait "journalism".

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 1:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8465551)
I can't be the only one that's just as excited to see something destroyed that DJT had a hand in creating. The metaphor is deeply satisfying. Win-win.

No need to bring him into this. He's not building anything here. Let's leave the Trump discussions for somewhere else. I don't really want to have to clean up that mess.



Quote:

Originally Posted by streetscaper (Post 8465562)
The lot size looks pretty similar to One Vandy's, right?

Pretty similar.

Imagine Vanderbilt had been planned along with this skyscraper...not that this would happen, but it's nice to think about...


http://a4.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1/1...ehClzT1.r6.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o6/06/102706/1/1...M6w9ajT.r5.JPG

Zapatan Feb 8, 2019 1:50 AM

Didn't realize it's literally next to Chrysler but I don't think that's a bad thing either, just as long as it looks cool.

Jin Mao Tower in Shanghai is one of my favorite buildings and I think SWFC and ST just add to its effect, so maybe a cool looking tower could do the same here.

The New-Old blend will be cool too.

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 2:21 AM

I think it will have to be something that tapers one way or the other. It has to get approvals, so the City will not look to kindly on just any box rising here. This will be something that the entire city will be looking at because its the Chrysler Building.



https://www.instagram.com/p/BsbszlynfXV/

https://scontent-amt2-1.cdninstagram...NDQ2OQ%3D%3D.2




https://therealdeal.com/2019/02/07/h...r-2m-sf-tower/

Quote:

TF Cornerstone and MSD plan to take over Hyatt’s lease, which expires in 2077 and would require city and state approval since the land is owned by the Empire State Development Corp.

The project would be the latest to take advantage of the Midtown East rezoning, which officials hope will add 6.5 million square feet of new office space to the neighborhood. JPMorgan Chase’s headquarters at 270 Park Avenue was the first. At the Hyatt, developers plan to use air rights purchased from Grand Central Terminal to build a larger tower. In 2016, MSD and TF Cornerstone bought a 90 percent stake in 1.35 million square feet of air rights tied to the terminal for $126 million. The partners sold 660,000 square feet to JPMorgan in December.


chris08876 Feb 8, 2019 2:34 AM

Given its location, they need an architect group that understands NY. That folks... is SHoP. I'd put my money that if you want a tower that will not only fit in for area, but complement the jewel that is Chrysler, they need to call in the professionals. Not BIG Group, sure as hell not Kaufman or Sam Chang Group, not Vinoly, hell... not even AM Stern... nope... call the SHoP gurus.

When a landmark is needed at Defcon 1, those are the folks one calls. :tup:

Its a matter of National Aesthetics Security.

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8465637)
Given its location, they need an architect group that understands NY. That folks... is SHoP. I'd put my money that if you want a tower that will not only fit in for area, but complement the jewel that is Chrysler, they need to call in the professionals. Not BIG Group, sure as hell not Kaufman or Sam Chang Group, not Vinoly, hell... not even AM Stern... nope... call the SHoP gurus.

When a landmark is needed at Defcon 1, those are the folks one calls. :tup:

Its a matter of National Aesthetics Security.


I would like SHoP, especially where it concerns the Chrysler. But all of these firms are supposed to be able to step up to the job. We'll see what we get. It will be closely watched, that's for sure.

BrownTown Feb 8, 2019 3:06 AM

Personally I find it silly that this building should have to show deference to a 90yr old building. The Chrysler building had its time in the sun. Allow progress to move forward and let other buildings take over the spotlight.

Hudson11 Feb 8, 2019 3:13 AM

If it were any other old tower, sure. This is the Chrysler Building we're talking about. It is beloved, and it deserves a higher degree of protection. Any other city would have view corridors up the ass for an icon like this.

Busy Bee Feb 8, 2019 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 8465637)
Not BIG Group, sure as hell not Kaufmanor Sam Chang Group, not Vinoly, hell... not even AM Stern... nope... call the SHoP gurus.

When a landmark is needed at Defcon 1, those are the folks one calls.


I can't tell if you actually think that would have been a possibility. Are you being serious? That being said, I'm not sure what this adulation of SHoP is all about. Yes, they're a top notch architecture firm and have been on a role with some impressive high profile projects, especially here in NY, but there are many eminently brilliant and qualified architects that could handle such a delicate task and premier location.

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 5:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownTown (Post 8465670)
Personally I find it silly that this building should have to show deference to a 90yr old building. The Chrysler building had its time in the sun. Allow progress to move forward and let other buildings take over the spotlight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11 (Post 8465680)
If it were any other old tower, sure. This is the Chrysler Building we're talking about. It is beloved, and it deserves a higher degree of protection. Any other city would have view corridors up the ass for an icon like this.


I would put the Chrysler Building as one of the most recognized skyline icons in New York, but even the Empire State Building doesn't have protected view corridors. The Chrysler Building still will be visible from most angles anyway, regardless of whatever gets built here. However, we would hope that it's something that lives up to the iconic nature of the Chrysler Buildng, not to mention One Vanderbilt itself will be something of a skyline icon in its own right. Whatever is built here should be something that would bridge the two.

The Chrysler Building is nearly 90 years old, as old as the ESB and more of the classic skyscrapers Downtown like 40 Wall and 70 Pine Street. Even the Woolworth is still an icon after all these years and loss of dominance. No amount of new buildings around them will diminish that. In the case of the Chrysler Building, you actually need something much taller so the towers won't cancel each other out.

This building is also surrounded on all sides by designated landmarks, so there will be a lot of discussion about what goes up here. Also, they're planning to put a new Hyatt here, which would probably be for the upper floors. That would give eye popping views of the Chrysler Buildng.



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...CZzUbuB.g1.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...PNIKAKk.g4.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...F6v8Um.g10.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...8MfpVR.g13.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...7ST8By.g15.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...i8mWqC.g16.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...8vzGcq.g18.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...tZ9syY.g20.JPG



http://a4.pbase.com/o11/06/102706/1/...07E073.g22.JPG

599GTO Feb 8, 2019 5:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrownTown (Post 8465670)
Personally I find it silly that this building should have to show deference to a 90yr old building. The Chrysler building had its time in the sun. Allow progress to move forward and let other buildings take over the spotlight.

This could block 99% of 90 year old buildings in Manhattan and no one would really care. The Chrysler Building is more than a 90 year old building, it’s an icon and and is embedded into the imagery of NYC.

It would he equally sad to build something in front and completely blocking Eiffel Tower. I’m happy this is being built but hopefully it tapers.

JSsocal Feb 8, 2019 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 8465797)
I would put the Chrysler Building as one of the most recognized skyline icons in New York, but even the Empire State Building doesn't have protected view corridors. The Chrysler Building still will be visible from most angles anyway, regardless of whatever gets built here. However, we would hope that it's something that lives up to the iconic nature of the Chrysler Buildng, not to mention One Vanderbilt itself will be something of a skyline icon in its own right. Whatever is built here should be something that would bridge the two.

The Chrysler Building is nearly 90 years old, as old as the ESB and more of the classic skyscrapers Downtown like 40 Wall and 70 Pine Street. Even the Woolworth is still an icon after all these years and loss of dominance. No amount of new buildings around them will diminish that. In the case of the Chrysler Building, you actually need something much taller so the towers won't cancel each other out.

This building is also surrounded on all sides by designated landmarks, so there will be a lot of discussion about what goes up here. Also, they're planning to put a new Hyatt here, which would probably be for the upper floors. That would give eye popping views of the Chrysler Buildng.

The Chrysler building is within the Top 5 most important buildings in New York, I think that's a pretty fair thing to say. And it's a 'Capital L' Landmark. If it was obscured -substantially- then New York would really be losing something.

I don't think this new building on it's own will completely overwhelm it, but we also need to remember the Pfizer site one block east- also in planning phases for a big new development. We might see the Chrysler building really start to get hemmed in on both sides. That site is likely more impactful because it has the potential to block the view from queens- an iconic view of this building.

NYguy Feb 8, 2019 5:23 PM

There will be a lot of scrutiny on this tower. The developers understand that they will need to get this approved.



https://www.6sqft.com/grand-hyatt-tr...-office-tower/

Quote:

No final agreement has yet been signed; the project requires approval from the city and the state. The current 1,298-room hotel, which employs 925 people, will reportedly stay open until sometime in 2020. The New York Hotel and Motel Trades Council has negotiated a $165 million buyout agreement with Hyatt on behalf of hotel employees that would, for example, pay a room attendant with 30 years of experience over $214,000 in cash as well as pension credits.


Hudson11 Feb 8, 2019 9:34 PM

Tishman Speyer and Abu Dhabi will likely be watching this closely as they attempt to sell off the Chrysler Building. A hulking tower across the street would lessen its value as a trophy asset.

Crawford Feb 8, 2019 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11 (Post 8466884)
Tishman Speyer and Abu Dhabi will likely be watching this closely as they attempt to sell off the Chrysler Building. A hulking tower across the street would lessen its value as a trophy asset.

Eh, the dumpy, bulky existing hotel that serves as a blight on 42nd/Lex, doesn't exactly add value as a trophy asset.

The only negative from the Chrysler's perspective is a few potential impacted views from the highest floors, but that's happening anyways.

toddguy Feb 9, 2019 12:09 AM

NYC is so damn lucky. Another possible supertall. I am sick with jealousy but congrats anyway.

JMKeynes Feb 9, 2019 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson11 (Post 8466884)
Tishman Speyer and Abu Dhabi will likely be watching this closely as they attempt to sell off the Chrysler Building. A hulking tower across the street would lessen its value as a trophy asset.

Chrysler should be converted to a very high-end hotel with condos and perhaps keep a small amount of boutique office space.

NYguy Feb 9, 2019 2:13 AM

I don't know how people feel about what type of design should go here, whether it should be a very tall tower, or whether it should fall somewhere in the middle between Chrysler and Vanderbilt. But looking at the site, and the programming, I'm guessing it will be higher than Vandy. So, from just that standpoint alone, what type of tower should rise here? Should it be a box? I say no, especially with the Chase tower and the proposed Tower Fifth looking to move on the skyline.

I think this will be a slender (not like the superslim towers on 57th) tower that either steps back or is tapered as it rises. How it meets the street level is a real question, but I'm guessing it could be set back from 42nd Street or Lexington Ave, possibly saving more of the profile of the Chrysler Building.

I'm just throwing out some random designs, maybe someone will photoshop them onto the site to give us an idea of how a tower of some height would fit in basically...


Skyneedle
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f8/9e/49/f...kyscrapers.jpg
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/441845413423364383/


https://graphics.chicagotribune.com/.../skyneedle.jpg
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...htmlstory.html




International Center
https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1...wsOVAgDNA8DCww
https://kultura.onet.pl/sztuka/700-m...hinach/60q6reh



Greenland Tower
https://architectureprize.com/submit...341QvwxPSb.jpg
https://architectureprize.com/winner...er.php?id=2853

NYguy Feb 9, 2019 2:18 AM

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/real-e...provement-fund

New Grand Central development will add $30 million to Midtown East improvement fund

DANIEL GEIGER
February 8, 2018


Quote:

A planned 2 million-square-foot office and hotel tower that would rise next to Grand Central Terminal will contribute roughly $30 million into the Midtown East public realm improvement fund created in the district's 2017 rezoning.

Coming shortly after a $208 million air-rights transfer that was part of JPMorgan Chase's plan to build a new headquarters tower at 270 Park Ave., the fund will soon have more than $70 million.

Quote:

"This is significant money for transit and pedestrian improvements," said Councilman Keith Powers, whose district encompasses the neighborhood and who chairs the committee that will direct the expenditures. "We're looking at projects that can address high-volume areas and make them more pedestrian-friendly."
Quote:

In addition to the public realm improvements, the project will contribute what likely will amount to hundreds of millions of dollars for transportation upgrades to Grand Central Terminal and the subway station below.



The full press release...



https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300792332.html

TF Cornerstone and MSD Partners Announce Intention to Redevelop Grand Hyatt Adjacent to Grand Central Terminal,
Supporting East Midtown Revitalization and Vital Transit Upgrades

Transformative 2-million-square-foot development would include state-of-the-art office and retail space, new Grand Hyatt New York hotel, and dramatic public infrastructure improvements at historic Grand Central Terminal



NEWS PROVIDED BY TF Cornerstone
Feb 08, 2019


Quote:

TF Cornerstone and MSD Partners, L.P. today announced their intention to pursue redevelopment of Grand Hyatt New York adjacent to Grand Central Terminal in Midtown Manhattan in collaboration with an affiliate of Hyatt Hotels Corporation (Hyatt). The new project would replace the existing building and create an iconic 2 million square foot mixed-use development, including world-class office and retail space, dramatic improvements to the public transportation infrastructure in the Grand Central Terminal transit complex and a new luxury Grand Hyatt hotel.

The project would transform one of the most important sites in East Midtown – at 42nd Street and Lexington Avenue, directly adjacent to Grand Central Terminal – offering state-of-the-art, Class A office space to meet demand for the most technologically advanced and efficient floorplans. The project would include substantial public benefits consistent with the recent rezoning of East Midtown:
Quote:

-Attract and retain world-class talent and businesses that require new construction, building on recent East Midtown advancements that include JP Morgan's announcement that it will redevelop its headquarters on Park Avenue and the ongoing development of One Vanderbilt.

-Support significant new improvements at Grand Central Terminal, including:
-Enhanced connectivity and circulation in the Grand Central subway complex
-New subway entrances
-Additional design improvements

-Revitalize Grand Hyatt New York, protecting union and non-union hotel jobs and driving economic growth

-Provide significant increase in tax revenue at a critical East Midtown location.
Quote:

The development team looks forward to working closely with the MTA to begin a comprehensive planning effort that will ensure that the final design will maximize benefits to their NYCT and Metro-North customers, and ultimately, Long Island Rail Road riders once the East Side Access Project is completed.

The development would be subject to City and State public review processes and work would only begin following receipt of necessary City and State approvals, completion of the design plans and the arrangement of sufficient project financing to complete its construction.

Development would be made possible by the contribution of development rights from Grand Central Terminal, currently owned by TF Cornerstone and MSD Partners, combined with the increase in density permitted
in accordance with the recently approved rezoning of East Midtown to support new office development and infrastructure investment. The redevelopment plans were created in consultation with the New York Hotel Trades Council.
Quote:

Jeremy Shell, Principal, TF Cornerstone: "This extraordinary project builds on TF Cornerstone's proud history of mixed-use development in New York City. We look forward to the opportunity to bring a new icon to New York's skyline and help advance the City's goals for desperately needed new development and infrastructure in East Midtown."

Jake Elghanayan, Principal, TF Cornerstone: "We are proud to support sustainable, transit-oriented development with new Class A office space, retail, and a Grand Hyatt hotel adjacent to Grand Central Terminal. The development will provide transit improvements that will transform the experience for hundreds of thousands of commuters every day."

Jason Kollander, Principal, MSD Partners: "This unique partnership is another example of our commitment to investing in East Midtown and helping to drive the revitalization of New York's most important business district for the next generation."

Mark Pardue, Senior Vice President, Operations and Human Resources, Americas, Hyatt: "Hyatt first entered the critical New York market with the flagship Grand Hyatt New York, and the hotel has always been one of our most iconic properties and vital locations. With support from our valued colleagues, we have proudly operated in the city for more than 35 years and remain committed to operating high quality hotels that can sustain long-term success and career opportunities for our colleagues in the market. We look forward to collaborating with TF Cornerstone and MSD Partners to introduce an extraordinary new hotel that will welcome global travelers and local New Yorkers alike while delivering public benefits that will make New York City a better place for residents and visitors."

BrownTown Feb 9, 2019 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 8467213)
I don't know how people feel about what type of design should go here, whether it should be a very tall tower, or whether it should fall somewhere in the middle between Chrysler and Vanderbilt. But looking at the site, and the programming, I'm guessing it will be higher than Vandy. So, from just that standpoint alone, what type of tower should rise here? Should it be a box? I say no, especially with the Chase tower and the proposed Tower Fifth looking to move on the skyline.

I think this will be a slender (not like the superslim towers on 57th) tower that either steps back or is tapered as it rises. How it meets the street level is a real question, but I'm guessing it could be set back from 42nd Street or Lexington Ave, possibly saving more of the profile of the Chrysler Building.

I'm just throwing out some random designs, maybe someone will photoshop them onto the site to give us an idea of how a tower of some height would fit in basically...

Seems to me that a box makes the most sense for the retail and office portions and then the hotel portion will get into setbacks to optimize views

streetscaper Feb 9, 2019 4:59 PM

Here is an overview from Google Maps... the red boxes over the One Vanderbilt site and the Grand Hyatt site are the exact same size, and area in green is the extra lot area that the Grand Hyatt takes up relative to One Vanderbilt. Looks to be about 20% larger, perhaps

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7901/...be6e00ce_c.jpg

NYguy Feb 9, 2019 9:13 PM

That would be a good spot for the plaza. The view of the Chrysler would be great. Or maybe they will recess the building back from 42nd, aligning it with Grand Central and opening up the views more.

NYguy Feb 10, 2019 1:13 AM

My thinking is that they could do something here like was done at One Vanderbilt, exposing Grand Central to more views...



https://www.instagram.com/p/BtgqPouFjvw/

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram...NjY4OA%3D%3D.2



Maybe you could save a little of the Chrysler too...


https://www.instagram.com/p/Btrftc1FTrR/

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram...NTM3Mg%3D%3D.2



https://www.instagram.com/p/BspZ0r7g-_C/

https://scontent-lhr3-1.cdninstagram...OTgxMA%3D%3D.2



Steven Kelley

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4076/4...4a210d63_b.jpg



davesquare74

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7281/1...a55cf7a8_b.jpg



Kevin Woods

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4061/4...3e0a3ea2_b.jpg



detany

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4415/3...6f94f99d_h.jpg

JMKeynes Feb 10, 2019 1:51 PM

That piece of junk does not belong between two of New York's iconic landmarks.

Bill Clay Feb 10, 2019 8:12 PM

I tried my best with the Skyneedle, kind of complements the Chrysler pretty well.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7849/4...22994264_b.jpg

This is purely just for kicks though, what rises here will probably look alot different.

chris08876 Feb 10, 2019 10:20 PM

The allocation of functionalities will give us an indicator of its size, likewise with set backs. Should this taper in a way, and have a large retail base/lobby, and with a higher % of Class-A office space, it could be a big one @ 2 mil-sq ft. But I'd imagine given the demand, we will see a lot of beds (hotel) being added. I wonder if it will be in the range of 1000-1200 beds?

NYguy Feb 11, 2019 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMKeynes (Post 8468308)
That piece of junk does not belong between two of New York's iconic landmarks.

You could actually say two of the most iconic buildings. Even though it's surrounded by landmarks on all sides, the Chrysler Building and Grand Central are two of the icons known largely outside of the city and even the country. Whatever goes up here should live up to that. It can't just be any old building.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clay (Post 8468596)
I tried my best with the Skyneedle, kind of complements the Chrysler pretty well.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7849/4...22994264_b.jpg

This is purely just for kicks though, what rises here will probably look alot different.

That's pretty good. Now if you could do it from the other side. It's hard to say exactly which building would be right for the site, but we'll know it when we see it.

Zapatan Feb 11, 2019 3:05 AM

With the amount of square footage, we could possibly see something like the sky needle. Not gonna lie, I would love that.

Some tapering and a spire could easily put this beyond Vanderbilt.

NYguy Feb 11, 2019 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 8468972)
With the amount of square footage, we could possibly see something like the sky needle. Not gonna lie, I would love that.

Some tapering and a spire could easily put this beyond Vanderbilt.


It wouldn't surprise me if they just started out wanting something higher than Vanderbilt. If it's within reach why not? That was the spirit of so many of the great tallest in the city
from the early part of last century.

I at least see this tower as an equal to One Vanderbilt, a sibling. Both will be connected to the very heart of the city and it's transit system. So will the Chase tower, but less so.

Those concepts from a few years ago, this on from SOM is almost indicative of what is taking shape. Remove the giant ring, and you've got it.



https://a4.pbase.com/o9/06/102706/1/...M.transit2.JPG



https://a4.pbase.com/o9/06/102706/1/...QmGQ0ls.r3.jpg



https://a4.pbase.com/o9/06/102706/1/...yzB1XC.n35.JPG



https://a4.pbase.com/o10/06/102706/1...6KKoN.n43b.JPG



https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...0phHu0b.v2.jpg



https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...gnIUTmm.v1.jpg



https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...J7udnmZ.v3.jpg

NYguy Feb 11, 2019 4:08 PM

https://www.instagram.com/p/BtuTg5QBqPM/

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram...NzUzMg%3D%3D.2

mrnyc Feb 11, 2019 7:18 PM

i have actually been wondering for a long time when this hyatt would be coming down.

question -- the old commodore hotel is still there under the 80s trump glass, is it not?

JManc Feb 11, 2019 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 8465797)
The Chrysler Building still will be visible from most angles anyway, regardless of whatever gets built here. However, we would hope that it's something that lives up to the iconic nature of the Chrysler Buildng, not to mention One Vanderbilt itself will be something of a skyline icon in its own right. Whatever is built here should be something that would bridge the two.

One Vanderbilt will always be a compliment to the Chrysler and the Empire State buildings, never a rival to them. It will be that third 'pointy building' near the other two. And this new building even if taller will always be overshadowed and be that 'building next door to the Chrysler'.

Btw, the bar in this doomed Hyatt made a decent Whisky Sour...

NYguy Feb 11, 2019 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8469681)
One Vanderbilt will always be a compliment to the Chrysler and the Empire State buildings, never a rival to them. It will be that third 'pointy building' near the other two. And this new building even if taller will always be overshadowed and be that 'building next door to the Chrysler'.

Vanderbilt isn't a rival right now, but I believe when it's built, and the tower becomes familiar enough due to its unique crown and spire, it will be among the towers that stand out, especially when it's lit at night, and becomes a destination of its own due to the observation deck. Being so close to the Chrysler will only increase that, as it will probably be in virtually every photo of the Chrysler.

The Grand Hyatt tower will be between the two, and has to find some sort of balance among the three. If it's too similar in height to Vanderbilt, the two towers will have some sort of paternal twin relationship. I think it needs to be higher than Vanderbilt, and if it has a crown that is lit up, that crown shouldn't be lit until it's at least above the crown of Vanderbilt. They may come out with something that we may not think would work, but when we see the design may change our minds.

I'm looking forward to it, and this is already one of the new towers I'm most excited about.

NYguy Feb 12, 2019 6:00 AM

A way to go before this thing gets to construction. It was at this time last year that Chase announced a new headquarters, and they are just now going through approvals. The hotel itself won't close until next year. I don't think they would build on spec, but by that time, One Vanderbilt will most likely be full, and that would probably drive this to construction, tenant signing or not.



https://nypost.com/2019/02/11/specul...to-the-market/

‘Speculative’ building is creeping back into the market


By Steve Cuozzo
February 11, 2019


Quote:

A specter is stalking the city’s commercial real estate market — the specter of spec.

Constructing offices without pre-signed tenants, known as “speculative” building, has long been the bane of developers and landlords who weren’t the ones doing the building.
Quote:

Brookfield Property Group plans to build Two Manhattan West (1.9 million square feet) even before inking any deals. BPG Chairman Ric Clark told us, “With the first four million square feet of office space at Manhattan West already 92 percent leased, combined with enormous demand for Two Manhattan West we’ve seen already, we are eager to bring the building on-line as quickly as possible.”

On Monday, Larry Silverstein said he might launch long-stalled Two World Trade Center’s 2.8 million square feet without pre-signed tenants as well.

“I think we’re in an increasingly good spot, in a good position” to do that, he told Bloomberg.
Quote:

According to CBRE, of Manhattan’s total 15.3 million square feet of offices under construction right now, some 3.07 million square feet are speculative — a surprising 20 percent. One reason the phenomenon’s been overlooked is that it’s scattered.

Some 1.17 million square feet of the new spec supply are in eight “boutique” buildings — of which Trinity Real Estate’s 68-74 Trinity Place (310,000 square feet) is the largest.

In Brooklyn, meanwhile, Tishman Speyer’s 10-story The Wheeler, going up on Fulton Street, has 622,000 square feet of first-class space up for grabs.

Several large, proposed Manhattan projects also have spec potential, including Harry Macklowe’s supertall Tower Fifth near St. Patrick’s Cathedral and TF Cornerstone and MSD Partners’ redevelopment of the Grand Hyatt Hotel on East 42nd Street, which would mostly be for offices.

Both projects need public approvals. The developers sound like they’d otherwise start digging tomorrow but have said nothing about tenants.
They didn’t get back to us on whether they’d build without them.

Some projects that aren’t fully spec are almost-spec. SL Green’s One Vanderbilt near Grand Central Terminal is now more than 52 percent leased ahead of its August 2020 opening. Yet SLG had pre-leased a mere 200,000 square feet of a total 1.52 million to TD Bank when it started building.
Quote:

CBRE’s Mary Ann Tighe, who reps 550 Madison, noted that even if all of the potentially spec projects go up, their completions would be stretched out over several years, so their market impact would more than likely be negligible.

She added, “New office buildings [with or without tenants] represent a tiny percentage of the [414-million-square-foot] office market and for good reasons,” including lack of “viable” land, political and neighborhood resistance and sky-high construction costs.

She said that “a spec building is a multibillion dollar gamble and few [developers] have the credibility and staying power for risk on that scale.”

Even so, she said that most tenants of more than 50,000 square feet needing to move choose to relocate to all-new buildings or to major makeovers such as 550 Madison Ave. and 1271 Sixth Ave. “Going spec is rare but usually rewarded unless a development hits during a severe financial downturn,” she said.
Quote:

JLL regional president Peter Riguardi said the notion of a “wave” of spec development “is more smoke than fire.”

He suggested that “some developers say they’re going to do it, to generate interest in projects and get a buzz going” — although he said he wasn’t including Two Manhattan West in that.

The fate of Two World Trade Center, the missing link in the great downtown complex, might be the most intriguing situation. We couldn’t reach Silverstein to expand on his comments.

But, “Larry is a man of his word,” said Durst, who’s the operating partner in One World Trade Center and competes for tenants with Silverstein’s Trade Center towers.


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