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loftlovr Feb 6, 2007 7:20 AM

DevdogAZ-
I like the design of The Vale but not the colors...
I do want to say though- I like variety...
Too many Brownstone projects if you ask me-

For example I am not a castle- guy but I like Chateaux on Central... It turns heads. -As does The Vale.

What we need is more masonry projects...

Azndragon837 Feb 7, 2007 12:11 AM

Here is a pano (well, two pictures merged together) that I took today of the growing Tempe skyline for work. Taken from the top of the Chase Garage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...kylinePano.jpg

-Andrew

JimInCal Feb 7, 2007 1:01 AM

Andrew,

Great pano shot! Look at that beautiful blue sky, Camelback and the buttes...McDowell Mountains in the background. I'm soooo home sick all of a sudden. :( Nice job :tup:

HooverDam Feb 7, 2007 4:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftlovr (Post 2614353)
DevdogAZ-
I like the design of The Vale but not the colors...

I agree, I was down at the Burton Barr library today and noticing that same hideous lime green color all over it. I wonder why Bruder is so fond of it, its really quite ugly.

jvbahn Feb 7, 2007 6:14 AM

I must say while I'm not overly a big fan of those specific colors, it is refreshing to see something other than brown, ochre, tan, pink ect. The Phoenix area has enough construction with this palate that something shocking becomes interesting, and the design is creative enough to warrant a more vivid scheme. Leave the more conservative colors for the cookie cutter houses and strip malls of suburbia, where the paint scheme matches the mentality.

loftlovr Feb 7, 2007 6:48 AM

Andrew- hell of a pic-
You should retake those shots and combine in about 10 months....

Sekkle Feb 8, 2007 7:37 PM

Quote:

Coffee talk: Lakefront luxury apartments
William Hermann
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 8, 2007 11:39 AM
Forget Scottsdale, Paradise Valley or the Biltmore area. The Valley's most expensive luxury apartments are now open on Tempe Town Lake.

Folks willing to pay up to $5,000 a month began moving into their luxury apartment digs this week at Grigio, a 523-unit complex on the northern shore of Tempe Town Lake.

Dolores McKay, the brand manager for Gray Development Group's Grigio Contemporary Living, described those moving in as "independent, successful people who want the amenities of a resort in the place they live. Renters range from successful business people to an ASU student from an affluent local family."

"If they want their dry cleaning waiting for them in their closet, we'll ask which side of the closet; if they want their hair done, a massage, coffee delivered to their door, it will all be here," she said. "We're here for people who work very hard and want service like they get in a five-diamond resort."

Units at Grigio range in size from 500 square feet to 2,600 square feet: studios start at $900 a month. There are 48 floor plans. As of this week, 10 units have been occupied and a total of 80 spoken for.

Grigio has caught the attention not just of potential residents, but of the Valley's real estate community.

Pete Te Kampe is a senior investment associate with Marcus & Millichap, a real estate investment brokerage company. He also is a member of the Board of Directors of the Arizona Multihousing Association.

Te Kampe said the highest average rents in the Valley are in north Scottsdale and Fountain Hills and run about $1,013 a month.

"Grigio now is by far the most expensive rental community in the Valley and it's first class all the way," Te Kampe said. "This Grigio is the Rolls-Royce of Valley apartment communities. What Gray Development is doing is inventing a new market segment for apartments."

McKay said that's exactly what was intended.

"We've combined the best aspects of existing residential options - apartments, condos, resorts, timeshares - and we've added the sizzle you would expect in a resort," she said. "It's contemporary architecture, with beautiful, elegant finishes. You'll see blue-pearl granite countertops, silver metallic appliances, glass-panel cabinetry and split bamboo flooring. And all done with meticulous workmanship."

And then there are the amenities:


• Bi-level, 24-hour health club.


• Three swimming pools and three spa Jacuzzis.


• Poolside café.


• Third floor member lounge.


• Roof lounge for entertainment.


• Bed turndown service.


• Private poolside cabana for spa treatments.


• Housekeeping service.


• Available salon services, from manicures to haircuts.


• Instruction studio for Pilates, spinning, kick-boxing and other fitness classes.

McKay said that it's not only the amenities inside the luxury apartments that are selling them. Grigio's location has been a huge boost to business.

"The whole Tempe, Mill Avenue scene is a very major plus for us," McKay said. "People know how vibrant Mill Avenue is, they see how beautiful the new art center will be, know about other developments coming in downtown Tempe.

"And now they want to stake their claim."
Why would anyone who can afford $5000 a month in rent not buy a condo? I'm sure there's a reason, but I can't figure it out. And sure, Tempe Town Lake and Mill Avenue are nice, but come on - it's not Manhattan! Plus, it's probably 1.5-2 miles from Grigio to downtown Tempe... I guess some people just have money to burn.

vertex Feb 8, 2007 9:24 PM

I think a big reason why the north side of the lake is attracting so much attention is because it's close to DT Scottsdale as well.

mcbaby Feb 8, 2007 9:34 PM

wow, so much construction going on in tempe. haven't been there in nearly 4 years. have to visit.

PHX602 Feb 8, 2007 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ (Post 2612286)
I also love the design of The Brownstones. I wish more infill projects would look like that and less of this ultra-modern stuff. I especially HATE the Vale with all those obscene colors.

Yikes!:runaway: The colors of the Vale imo, are EXACTLY what the Phoenix area needs. Not everything in the desert has to be brown and tan. That's one reason I really like the Summit at Copper Square.

HooverDam Feb 9, 2007 2:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX602 (Post 2620351)
Yikes!:runaway: The colors of the Vale imo, are EXACTLY what the Phoenix area needs. Not everything in the desert has to be brown and tan. That's one reason I really like the Summit at Copper Square.

I agree, there is way too much brown and tan in the Phoenix area, we do need a variety of colors- but lime green-ick. I remember driving to an ASU football game w/ my family last year, and the first time my mom saw the Vale she said "what the hell is that?" Its just too much for most people. If it was red or purple or blue, or any other color, I'd like it a lot, but its just too bright.

Azndragon837 Feb 9, 2007 3:50 PM

I knew this was coming: Tempe continues to get taller! Another set of skyscrapers proposed on the old Long Wong's site across the street from Borders (7th St. & Mill).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...WongsSite2.jpg

High-rise proposed on former Tempe bar site

By Garin Groff, Tribune
February 9, 2007


On what is now a gravel lot on Mill Avenue, the dilapidated but beloved Long Wong’s bar helped elevate local bands like the Gin Blossoms to national acts. Now, a developer wants to boost the image of the former bar site by building an 18-story hotel and two 25-story condo towers.

Paragon, a Las Vegas-based developer, unveiled plans this week for a project that would become the fifth in downtown Tempe with buildings of 18 or more stories.

The hotel would feature a spa and fit- ness center on its second floor, allowing those in the facility to overlook Mill Avenue — and letting people on the street see people working out.

The fitness center would be open to guests, condo owners and the public. That component would be combined with housing, stores and restaurants that would line the street level and create a mix of uses that are rarely found in a single development, project architect Mike Rumpeltin said.

“There are very few projects like this in the country,” said Rumpeltin, of RSP Architects, Ltd.

Paragon hopes the city will approve the project this year. If that happens, the company plans to start construction in July 2008 and open the project two years later.

The $225 million development would run along Seventh Street from Mill to Myrtle avenues, where it would back up to an equally tall tower at the University Square project that includes a hotel, offices and condos.

The project has been a decade in the making.

Las Vegas real estate investor Mario Sanchez bought the Long Wong’s site on Mill about 10 years ago, said John Cahill, Paragon’s vice president. Sanchez bought another parcel at Seventh and Myrtle several years later and then spent several years buying several small lots in between what he already owned.

The developer bulldozed the building that housed Long Wong’s and other small businesses more than a year ago. The vacant property has bothered many merchants and city officials.

Pam Goronkin, executive director of the Downtown Tempe Community, said merchants were happy to see that something was being done with the property.

But she said it’s regrettable that the developer couldn’t also buy the aging Jack in the Box on Mill. It’s the only business left downtown with its own parking lot and driveway, a suburban-type development that downtown planners would prefer to see replaced with an urban building. But the owner wasn’t willing to sell.

“We’ve lived with it a long time,” Goronkin said. “Although I would rather see it incorporated in the project, those people have a right to do what they want with their own property.”

Several things haven’t been determined yet, including the name, condo prices and the hotel brand.

The project includes a redbrick facade on Mill and on Seventh to match surrounding buildings, but the towers will sport steel and glass. The buildings fit within the city’s height guidelines except for the hotel, which would jut above the 150-foot height guideline for that part of the property.

The project’s overall height concerns Councilman Ben Arredondo. He’s objected to heights of some other projects and insisted that the neighboring University Square should not go an inch over the 300-foot limit.

Arredondo said he’s not thrilled to hear part of this project goes over the guideline.

“I thought we agreed to a height limit and not a fudge factor,” he said.

Arredondo said he checks any tall buildings to see if they are too close to neighborhoods or if block the view of Hayden Butte. Those seem to be the biggest concerns of Tempeans, he said.

“They aren’t too concerned when they’re right downtown on Mill,” Arredondo said. “But when it goes over by College Avenue or further to the railroad tracks on the west side, they start to get concerned.”

The project’s condo towers would tie with University Square for the second tallest buildings in Tempe at about 300 feet. The tallest buildings will be three 30-story, 343-foot condo towers at Centerpoint Condominiums.

The project

A hotel and condo project at Mill Avenue and Seventh Street includes:

• 240 hotel rooms

• 370 residential units

• 1.1 million square feet

• Conference center, spa and fitness center

• 34,000 square feet for restaurants and shops

Hotel/condo towers

Proposed 18-story hotel and two 25-story condo towers. Construction planned to start mid-2008 if approved.

Centerpoint Condominiums

One 22-story and one 30-story tower under construction. Two more 30-story towers planned.

Mosaic

One 18-story condo tower. Construction in early stages now.

Armory

Two condo towers, 20 stories and 14 or 15 stories, which has not been determined. Construction begins May.

University Square

Three towers ––office, condo and hotel. One tower will reach 300 feet ––more than 20 stories, but the exact number of floors isn’t determined. Construction begins this year.

SOURCE: Tempe; Paragon

==============================================

Here is a scan of today's East Valley Tribune's front page of the article:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...gWongsSite.jpg

-Andrew

vertex Feb 9, 2007 4:58 PM

Wow, so this developer has managed to string together all of the parcels along the south side of 7th street. This should include the print shop, the small apartments, and the eJoy coffee bar.

That's quite an accomplishment for Tempe, it's been very hard to pull off something like this for a long time now. After the Co-op, there really isn't another large parcel available downtown that I'm aware of.

Naturally, the owner of the Jack-in-the-Box held out.

Sekkle Feb 9, 2007 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azndragon837 (Post 2621677)
The developer bulldozed the building that housed Long Wong’s and other small businesses more than a year ago. The vacant property has bothered many merchants and city officials.

Hotel/condo towers

Proposed 18-story hotel and two 25-story condo towers. Construction planned to start mid-2008 if approved.

Mosaic

One 18-story condo tower. Construction in early stages now.

Armory

Two condo towers, 20 stories and 14 or 15 stories, which has not been determined. Construction begins May.

Tempe is so badass! Too bad that lot will be empty for at least another year and a half. Good to know that Mosaic is starting up and the Armory will start construction in a couple months... two more cranes for the Tempe skyline! :tup:

ASUguy51 Feb 9, 2007 6:38 PM

I love the fact that Tempe is going up and this is going to make it more walkable than ever. The next challenge will be linking it to Scottsdale and Phoenix so well that they are all connected seamlessly....in the next 10 years or so there will be a need to start thinking of a full metro/subway system.

HooverDam Feb 9, 2007 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASUguy51 (Post 2621994)
in the next 10 years or so there will be a need to start thinking of a full metro/subway system.

Subway isn't going to happen (and shouldn't here), everything is too built up, and it would be impossible to build. But we do have Light Rail coming along, with expansions already planned in the works- I'm not sure what you mean by "full system", unless you just mean more lines.

vertex Feb 9, 2007 7:07 PM

Anybody know anything about this developer, such as any current or completed projects? I've never heard of 'Paragon' of Las Vegas, and I'm usually skeptical about LV developers to begin with.

A quick check on Google for 'Paragon Las Vegas' turns up only one really relevant link:

http://www.paragoncommercialrealesta...wst_page2.html

I hope their website doesn't reflect their attention to detail. Notice the low-quality pics of Phoenix office buildings, along with the 'Created with Go Daddy software' link at the bottom.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...ge/paragon.gif

If anyone has the correct link to either the developer or the project, please post it.

combusean Feb 10, 2007 5:58 AM

Let's not forget the 11 story Marriott in place of Bandersnatch (just east of city hall), which is red-signed for rezoning now. Also that 15-story tower proposed for Rural Rd and 8th St. Two shorter projects on Apache too.

Andrew ... any word on City Hall East? I keep walking by that pyramid thinking that parking lot is a bit empty.

loftlovr Feb 10, 2007 6:23 AM

Jack N the Box must go...
It symbolizes the dead zone that occurs just N of University until you hit the Brickyard development.

JnB also held out on the Century Plaza development (Century City) if it comes to life will always have a shitty JnB in the middle....

dktshb Feb 10, 2007 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azndragon837 (Post 2616009)
Here is a pano (well, two pictures merged together) that I took today of the growing Tempe skyline for work. Taken from the top of the Chase Garage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...kylinePano.jpg

-Andrew

Wow, I used to work there at Chase in the early to mid 90's. It certainly has grown a bit since then. I remember Fat Tuesdays and an Islands. Are the big dirt lots behind the Chase parking structures infilled yet? I'm surprised to see all the infill in the distance, which used to be no man's land next to the (at that time) dry salt river.

Sekkle Feb 10, 2007 8:00 AM

AZ Republic's article on the new hotel & condo proposal. It mentions some info about Paragon... looks like they read your post, Vertex.
Quote:

Vegas developer eyes Mill
Katie Nelson
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 10, 2007 12:00 AM
Downtown Tempe is in flux.

Construction has torn up streets. Building plans are coming in every month. High-rises are popping up where once there was nothing.

And the city is experiencing growing pains as it evolves into Arizona's first true urban live-work community.

Traffic is kept at an almost constant crawl around University Drive and Mill Avenue where water line construction is expected to last until the end of April. And at least one local restaurant blames its closing on surrounding private construction.

"The area has changed so dramatically with all the new condo developments, we lost the direct access to our building as well as parking," said Cynthia Darlington, director of marketing for Islands Fine Burgers and Drinks.

The eatery near the Harkins movie theater, off Mill Avenue, closed Nov. 27.

"Construction was constantly blocking the main entrance way," Darlington said. "As our lease came up for renewal, we decided it would be best if we would vacate and make way for other development that fits in better with the area."

Construction projects are continually coming in. City estimates project an estimated 5,000 home units, bringing about 10,000 residents to Tempe's downtown area within the next five years.

"Though it's really hard to tell how many people it will ultimately be until they start getting occupied and we can see if it's going to be single people, couples, people with a couple of kids, or ASU students with a roommate or two," said Kris Baxter, who works in Tempe's Economic Development Department.

There are 15 condo subdivisions on the books, and more coming based on plans going through the city's Development Review Commission. The projects range from 30-story high-rise towers to three-story brownstones nestled into neighborhoods.

Jonathan Dalton, a Valley real estate agent, said there might be too many in the works.

"There is a glut in townhouses," Dalton said. "But all these (Tempe) projects were put together when the market was still moving and the momentum is such that you can't cancel them. I see an oversupply in a lot of the upscale townhouses and condos near the Tempe-Scottsdale border."

Nevertheless, details about another high-rise became public this week: The muscle behind some of Las Vegas' most iconic casinos and hotels intends to bring a hotel and condo project to Mill Avenue.

Paragon, a company with decades of experience in development gaming and management, is responsible for the MGM Grand Las Vegas, the Las Vegas Hilton, the Sahara Hotel and Casino and the Paris Hotel and Casino. Local hotels include the Four Seasons Scottsdale and the JW Marriott Desert Ridge Conference Center Resort and Country Club in Phoenix.

Now, Paragon wants to build a three-tower, 26-story integrated hotel and condo project in Tempe at Mill Avenue and Seventh Street.

Plans call for 240 hotel rooms, 370 condos, conference space, an open-to-the public fitness center and ground-floor spots for retail stores or restaurants. The hotel would likely be a Marriott brand: Renaissance ClubSport.

It's a multiuse project with multiple goals, said John Cahill, a Paragon vice president.

"We want to have something that takes advantage of all the adjacencies: The university population, all the new residents; even if half the projects that are on the books get built and provide them with food, entertainment, this health club facility and a place to put up their friends and family," Cahill said.

The Paragon project's location was once the site of Long Wong's watering hole and concert venue favored by both Arizona State University students and locals.

That's telling, said Sara Cina, an Arizona native who used to book bands there and is now making a career selling her bright artwork in the form of clothing for babies and women.

"It's ironic because I always appreciated the mixture," Cina said. "The dive pizza place contrasting with a P.F. Chang's. The local brew pub, with corporate-whatever. It saddens me that something so completely brand-new and corporate is going on something that was so old Tempe."
I'm surprised to hear that the hotel "would likely be a Marriott brand." Marriott will have 3 hotels in the downtown Tempe area if that's true and if the Bandersnatch site proposal comes to fruition (the third one being the existing Courtyard on 5th and Ash).

Sekkle Feb 10, 2007 8:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 2623386)
Are the big dirt lots behind the Chase parking structures infilled yet?

If you're referring to the lots on the west side of Ash, they are still empty. The city listened to competing proposals for that strip of land and selected one (Farmer Arts District - see post #435 on page 18 of this thread here... http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...&postcount=435). The other empty space around the parking structures on the east side of Ash is becoming the Centerpoint condos - shown on the righthand side of the pano above.

Sekkle Feb 11, 2007 5:33 AM

Here's the latest development progress chart from Tempe's website. Onyx appears to have made some progress since last month. I think they cleaned the chart up a bit - the hollow portions of the bars seem to make a little more sense than January's.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2...rojectsdj9.jpg

Azndragon837 Feb 12, 2007 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean (Post 2623307)
Let's not forget the 11 story Marriott in place of Bandersnatch (just east of city hall), which is red-signed for rezoning now. Also that 15-story tower proposed for Rural Rd and 8th St. Two shorter projects on Apache too.

Andrew ... any word on City Hall East? I keep walking by that pyramid thinking that parking lot is a bit empty.

City Hall East IS the 11-story Marriott. The hotel will cover the parking lot east of city hall, along with the city's duplicating services building, and the old Bandersnatch building. It will include retail and shops on the first floor facing 5th Street and Forest.

-Andrew

Upward Feb 12, 2007 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 2622032)
Subway isn't going to happen (and shouldn't here), everything is too built up, and it would be impossible to build. But we do have Light Rail coming along, with expansions already planned in the works- I'm not sure what you mean by "full system", unless you just mean more lines.

What city anywhere in the world has a subway and isn't more "built up" than the Phoenix area? Atlanta, maybe (but it still has a much bigger downtown).


Don't anyone take me for a Phoenix-basher... I am a native and I lived there for 22 years before moving to Orange County to go to grad school. And I happen to be in Europe until March. :D I have been silent enough in this forum during the past couple months that i feel it's time to re-introduce myself. ;)

HooverDam Feb 12, 2007 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward (Post 2627217)
What city anywhere in the world has a subway and isn't more "built up" than the Phoenix area? Atlanta, maybe (but it still has a much bigger downtown).


Don't anyone take me for a Phoenix-basher... I am a native and I lived there for 22 years before moving to Orange County to go to grad school. And I happen to be in Europe until March. :D I have been silent enough in this forum during the past couple months that i feel it's time to re-introduce myself. ;)

Well Phoenix also has very hard soil underneath it for the most part (one of the reasons that most homes here don't have basements), so I think a subway would be doubly tough. But I'd bet anything that Phoenix will never have a subway system, we are getting light rail, and will continue to expand that, but a subway would just be a huge waste of money.

nbrindley Feb 12, 2007 2:22 PM

Yeah, being built up is not the impediment to a subway system. NYC was much more built up when it got it's subway. The problem is cost. Look at how many billions of dollars it's costing just to lay some tracks in the middle of the road. Think of how much it would cost to be digging massize tunnels to run it through (especially with Phoenix's rocky soil). If Phoenix ever gets a subway, it will be many years in the future; Phoenix will have to be much more dense to justify the enormous cost of construction.

Azndragon837 Feb 12, 2007 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward (Post 2627217)
What city anywhere in the world has a subway and isn't more "built up" than the Phoenix area? Atlanta, maybe (but it still has a much bigger downtown).


Don't anyone take me for a Phoenix-basher... I am a native and I lived there for 22 years before moving to Orange County to go to grad school. And I happen to be in Europe until March. :D I have been silent enough in this forum during the past couple months that i feel it's time to re-introduce myself. ;)

Yay! Welcome back Chris! It was from Don that he told me you were in France. Give me a heads up. Good to hear from you again.

-Andrew

DevdogAZ Feb 13, 2007 12:21 AM

The reason subway isn't practical here in the Valley is due to sprawl. In a city like NYC, you can literally have thousands of people using a stop and going anywhere from 1 block to hundreds of blocks. You'll notice that in most cities with subway systems, once the subway gets out of the main part of the city, it goes above ground. In these areas, the land was not expensive enough to justify the cost of going underground. The same is true in PHX, except that there's no land anywhere in the valley that's expensive enough to justify the cost of going underground. Precisely because PHX ISN'T built up is why it's much more economical to run the tracks above ground.

loftlovr Feb 14, 2007 7:38 AM

*Head bobbin like Hell Yeah**

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/ind...dest=STY-83995

Plan centers on Hayden Flour Mill in Tempe
Garin Groff, Tribune
The Hayden Flour Mill stood as one of Tempe’s most visible buildings for more than a century even as its thick concrete walls masked its inner workings from public view.

But the elaborate milling equipment that turned grain into flour will be on display in a glass structure next to the mill as part of a plan to restore and redevelop the site.

The proposal includes adding three stories of glass floors on top of the mill and new buildings for shops and restaurants. But most building space will be the new headquarters for the developer, Avenue Communities. That’s the same company behind the 30-story Centerpoint Condominiums a few blocks away.

Avenue is moving to buy the site from Tempe, which took ownership after another developer’s plan fizzled and the city received the property in the midst of an extended lawsuit. City and business leaders are hopeful the developer will finally bring life to the mill since its 1998 closure.

“They’ve done everything that the city has asked them to do and they’re doing it in a very high-quality way,” said Chris Salomone, Tempe’s community development manager.

Avenue will present its plans to the City Council Thursday. The company plans to demolish half-century old additions so the 1918 structure will stand as it did originally. Also, Avenue will build a trailhead to Hayden Butte, add parking and buildings along the street to give the area a more urban feel.

Many Tempeans have been anxious for something to happen on the site after it closed and transients set a fire that burned part of the building. The site has been a source of embarrassment, especially considering it was built by Tempe’s founder, Charles Trumbull Hayden, in 1872 and was one of the Valley’s most important businesses.

Avenue will likely take up all the office space at the project, company spokeswoman Margie D’Andrea said. The company hasn’t selected other tenants yet but is shunning chains in favor of chef-driven restaurants, D’Andrea said.

One potential tenant includes a Vancouver chef who would operate a bakery and cafe. The wine bar will have a tie to a winery that the developer is setting up at Centerpoint Condominiums.

The city is requiring Avenue Communities to have a permit in hand and to have “substantial” construction underway by Jan. 23, 2009, but D’Andrea said the company hopes to begin work late this year.

The first phase would roughly double the amount of building space to 60,000 square feet. Avenue plans to later replace parking areas with two more phases of development that would bring the project to 500,000 square feet of offices, stores, housing and more.

The mill was built for strength, not beauty. Still, the development plans should make the mill a proud entry feature for downtown, said Vic Linoff, a downtown merchant and history buff. Linoff has been critical of many redevelopment efforts and the destruction of historic structures, and he doesn’t like Avenue’s plan to add more floors on top of the mill. He’d prefer to keep the building as close to its original form as possible.

But Linoff said Avenue deserves credit for showing a strong interest in using historic equipment and elements in the design.

The development will include railroad tracks that once ran through the site and some remnants of a canal that brought water to power the mill in its early days.

“We’ve lost too many historic buildings in the name of redevelopment and this is such an expensive investment that even as a preservationist, you have to realize there’s going to be compromise to save those historic structures,” Linoff said.

Mayor Hugh Hallman said the glass addition is needed to make the project work financially and to service the dated structure with elevators and utilities.

The project is small compared to other downtown projects that will take up to 1 million square feet. Hallman said the project was meant to be smaller in scope in order to respect the mill’s history.

A recent $1.5 million archeological project funded by the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community helped unearth history about Tempe’s first settlers and even discovered a Hohokam canal that’s perhaps 1,000 years old.

Hallman said the city might ask for some changes, but he’s eager to see a project move forward that revives Tempe’s history.

Hayden Flour Mill redevelopment

The first phase:

• Restores the 1918 mill building

• Attaches a building on the west side for shops

• Adds a building for a wine bar

• Builds a trailhead for Hayden Butte

• Adds surface parking

• Includes nearly 65,000 square feet of existing and new buildings

• Paints the 1950s silos, but leaves them empty

• Would transfer the land from Tempe to Avenue Communities, but only if work starts by January 2009

Two future phases would:

• Develop the silos, perhaps as housing or a hotel

• Replace the surface parking with more offices, shops and housing

• Eventually include about 500,000 square feet of buildings

• Be valued at about $500 million

• Be limited to the height of the silos, 168 feet.

Upward Feb 14, 2007 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevdogAZ (Post 2628179)
You'll notice that in most cities with subway systems, once the subway gets out of the main part of the city, it goes above ground. In these areas, the land was not expensive enough to justify the cost of going underground. The same is true in PHX, except that there's no land anywhere in the valley that's expensive enough to justify the cost of going underground. Precisely because PHX ISN'T built up is why it's much more economical to run the tracks above ground.

That's true, but most subway systems that go above ground in the suburbs become elevated trains, not trains that run on the middle of streets. Here in the Lille area, there is a subway system with two lines. It does go above ground in some areas, but then it's elevated. There is also what they call the "tramway", and it's the same sort of thing as the light rail Phoenix is getting. It runs down the middle (or the side) of regular roads. This is the secondary system, with the subway being the main transit system.

Trains that run at street level are slower than subways/elevated trains, and suffer from another serious limitation: they're bound by the street grid. This will be a problem in Phoenix. Tempe is an exception, because the light rail will have its own bridge and then use some defunct railways. That's good. But for most of the line, the train won't be that much different from a bus, because it's running on the streets. A subway would have the advantage of being able to exceed the limitations of the gridded streets.

sundevilgrad Feb 15, 2007 3:15 PM

Quote:

The company hasn’t selected other tenants yet but is shunning chains in favor of chef-driven restaurants, D’Andrea said.

One potential tenant includes a Vancouver chef who would operate a bakery and cafe. The wine bar will have a tie to a winery that the developer is setting up at Centerpoint Condominiums.
Further proof (as if we needed more) that Tempe is the urbanization leader in the Valley of the Sun. The difference in the development climate between Tempe and Phoenix is almost comical at this point.

P.S. - I was down on Mill yesterday. The wife and I went to Cafe Boa for V-day (love that place!). Centerpoint is really starting to get tall. One tower is 9-10 stories now (maybe more) and the other is 3-4. They should really start climbing into the skyline now.

DevdogAZ Feb 15, 2007 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Upward (Post 2630837)
That's true, but most subway systems that go above ground in the suburbs become elevated trains, not trains that run on the middle of streets. Here in the Lille area, there is a subway system with two lines. It does go above ground in some areas, but then it's elevated. There is also what they call the "tramway", and it's the same sort of thing as the light rail Phoenix is getting. It runs down the middle (or the side) of regular roads. This is the secondary system, with the subway being the main transit system.

Trains that run at street level are slower than subways/elevated trains, and suffer from another serious limitation: they're bound by the street grid. This will be a problem in Phoenix. Tempe is an exception, because the light rail will have its own bridge and then use some defunct railways. That's good. But for most of the line, the train won't be that much different from a bus, because it's running on the streets. A subway would have the advantage of being able to exceed the limitations of the gridded streets.

Clearly there are major advantages to subways and elevated trains which is why the most dense cities have these systems, despite their enormous cost. However, here in PHX the cost cannot be justified for many reasons. First, the money just isn't there. Second, there is no culture of riding mass transit, which means many residents already think that light rail is a huge boondoggle. Third, the distances involved are huge for the amount of potential riders. Fourth, the decentralized structure of the Valley means that for such a system to be efficient, it would have to have nodes running from N. Scottsdale to S. Gilbert, from E. Mesa to Surprise, from N. Phoenix to S. Phoenix, from Avondale to Deer Valley. We're talking hundreds of miles of tracks at a cost of hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars.

At that point, most taxpayers would simply prefer to stay in their air-conditioned cars rather than pay huge taxes to stand on a sweltering train platform and cram into a crowded, smelly, compartment at rush hour.

Azndragon837 Feb 22, 2007 12:40 AM

Centerpoint Condominiums Update: 02.21.07

I walked around Downtown Tempe today, and decided to snap some pictures of Centerpoint...give all of you guys an update. It looks like they are up to the 12th floor for Phase 1, and only up to the 3rd floor for Phase 2.

Phase 1 (22 stories) is already halfway up, and should be topped-out around April, with Phase 2 (30 stories) following in August or September.



Peaking above Chase from the intersection of Mill Avenue & University Drive.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint001.jpg

A closer shot within the Centerpoint plaza.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint002.jpg

Behind some trees. It looks shy from this angle, but give it a few months.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint003.jpg

Both cranes looming above the construction site.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint004.jpg

Here is a shot from 6th Street. This angle provides the best view of the construction site, and shows how massive the tower is.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint005.jpg

Another angle with both cranes in the photograph.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint006.jpg

Close-up of Phase 1, now on the 12th floor, going on 13.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint007.jpg

At the intersection of 5th Street and Mill Avenue.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint008.jpg

Close-up
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...erpoint009.jpg


That's it for now! Give it a few weeks, and it'll be noticeably taller. It's say when it gets to the 15th floor, I'll do another update.

-Andrew

JimInCal Feb 23, 2007 5:46 AM

Pics from Sunday 2-19
 
Andrew, you beat me to the punch. I took a ton of pics in Tempe last Sunday when I was over from California visiting mom and my wife's folks. Your pics are terrific. I see you got a nice new camera! I'll try not to duplicate views here.

Here's a pano of 5 pics taken from the trail on Hayden Butte. It runs from near the south end of Sun Devil Stadium to the old Mill. I need to figure out how to do those wide panos. This looked much better in a larger format. Centerpoint is right in the middle.
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6...mpepan3oh1.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9610/tempe1bv6.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6081/tempe2pp9.jpg

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/127/tempe3aq8.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8154/tempe4ow7.jpg

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1857/tempe6sn8.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/811/tempe7hp9.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2954/tempe8zw4.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9682/tempe9ex6.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7938/tempe10gp5.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/5336/tempe11gp4.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2052/tempe13us0.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/4285/tempe14yt0.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3279/tempe15tt5.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7499/tempe16rr6.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9334/tempe17rj0.jpg

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7586/tempe19wc1.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7029/tempe18hq5.jpg

Azndragon837 Feb 23, 2007 6:42 AM

Jim, great pictures, especially the first pano...once Centerpoint's two towers rises out of the ground, it will certainly dominate the Tempe skyline. By the way, I didn't get a new camera (I don't have one). I was actually out in the field for work, and decided to shoot some pictures. Come back soon! When you do, I am sure the Phoenix and Tempe skylines will look much different than what you saw last Sunday.

-Andrew

loftlovr Feb 23, 2007 7:37 AM

You guys both beat me!
SOB's!
Jim- amazing pics.
I love this forum.....

JAHOPL Feb 23, 2007 8:56 PM

We sometimes eat at Uno's Pizza on 6th St. with our ASU freshman daughter, right around the corner from the rising Centerpoint Condos. Afterwards I have to walk down the block to get a closer look at the construction site. Thanks to everyone for the pictures.

My first post after lurking a couple weeks. I had no idea there were so many high-rise geeks like me. Probably some here count the number of floors in pictures of high-rises in other cities like I do.

44 Monroe reached 16 floors yesterday.

Azndragon837 Feb 24, 2007 12:36 AM

^Welcome JAHOPL! Trust me, there are TONS of high-rise geeks...just gotta look to see where they all congrgate. Welcome to the forum.

-Andrew

tgoodere Feb 25, 2007 7:21 AM

Hi, I just signed up....I have been looking for a long time on this site... I love looking at how Tempe is developing. I am out of the country right now but was interested in Onyx and Northshore. I was there in November and I saw some pics of recent developments on Northshore @ www.northshoreaz.com but they haven't updated any pics in awhile. Just seeing if someone can post some?

I was reading some previous posts talking about Onyx and it said the square footage was starting out at 1,300. I think it is more like the 600's square foot range starting in the mid $300's.

Thanks~Keep up the pics..

DevdogAZ Feb 25, 2007 7:12 PM

I'll try and remember to take my camera sometime this week and get some pics of Northshore, but there's not really much to see yet. If you saw it in November, not much has changed. When I last went by it about a week ago, a good portion of the first floor (above the concrete foundation) was framed out, but not anything above that.

loftlovr Feb 27, 2007 9:43 AM

Good to see some newbies on the site!

Northshore isn't too much further along- the Grigio apartments are cranking however...

vertex Feb 28, 2007 6:14 AM

On a rather sad note....

I should have sensed trouble about a week-and-a-half ago, when they ran a 10% off sale on everything, and saw that they were slow to restock.


Gentle Strength Cooperative set to close its doors for good today

Betty Beard
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 28, 2007 12:00 AM

After 36 years as the Valley's best known seller of health and organic foods, the Gentle Strength Cooperative is closing today.

The 36-year-old, member-owned Tempe health food store just didn't have the cash to buy new produce or other goods and began liquidating its merchandise last weekend. The store had slashed prices 35 percent over the past two days.

"We will close at 9 p.m. unless it gets real slow and then we will close earlier," said Tony Spaltro,the co-op's board president. "It's a very sobering experience."

The co-op, founded by peace activists in the 1970s, has been plagued by debt for at least a decade.

Spaltro said some board members sued other members of the board about a year ago, accusing them of mismanagement, but later dropped the suit on advice of their attorney.

The store was sued several times since the late 1990s for not paying bills, and $12,000 was stolen from a safe several years ago, but no one was charged.

Board members have blamed bad decisions by previous board members and the sale of its former Tempe home, which left the group owning no property to borrow against.

Gentle Strength sold its former Tempe home on University Drive west of Mill Avenue in 2004 for $2.5 million. After paying off debts, it was left with about $900,000, Spaltro said. But a previous board committed itself to spending about $1.6 million to get the new store ready, he said.

"We spent about five months getting as much financing as we could. But it was not enough for a cash reserve. It's a real shame," he said.

The situation got worse when Gentle Strength moved last fall to its current home southeast of Mill and Southern avenues and had to pay rent. It has a 10-year lease.

Spaltro said the company is a not-for-profit and, unlike a non-profit, cannot take donations. He said the board has tried to sell the store but was told by brokers that any interested buyers would want a positive cash flow.

Bob Kammrath, a Phoenix commercial real estate analyst, said it is surprising that Gentle Strength has lasted this long. Grocers these days need a lot of buying clout, and that's why there are chains, he said.

"It (Gentle Strength) is an oddity in this age. It is a throwback to the way things were in the 1800s," he said.

Gentle Strength opened in 1971, patterned after agricultural co-ops formed by farmers 100 years earlier.

Kammrath also noted that Gentle Strength in recent years has faced more competition not only from health food chains but from growing health food sections at traditional grocery stores.

Spaltro said he hopes someone can someday restart the co-op, but Kammrath doubts that will happen.

"From a purist standpoint, it is a good idea," he said. "It's just not economically feasible."

http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...entle0228.html

tgoodere Feb 28, 2007 11:03 AM

Thanks Loftlovr/DevDogAz....I have been following this thread for over a year....guess I should have majored in Real Estate or Planning :)

That make sense about Northshore...I looked on their website..like I said and they haven't updated it. So, it must be construction delays. I am not sure about buying into Onyx since it has taken so long for Northshore. It is the same developer...Weststone.

loftlovr Mar 1, 2007 9:00 AM

I think that sounds smart-
Did you look at Campus Edge, or Centerpoint?

combusean Mar 1, 2007 12:16 PM

Quote:

Gentle Strength sold its former Tempe home on University Drive west of Mill Avenue in 2004 for $2.5 million. After paying off debts, it was left with about $900,000, Spaltro said. But a previous board committed itself to spending about $1.6 million to get the new store ready, he said.
Idiots! I don't feel so sorry for them ... bad decisions are bad decisions.

williard Mar 2, 2007 5:13 AM

Mosaic Tempe: the model
 
I went to the Mosaic grand opening party on March 1st at the KML Square One Design Studio at 818 North First Street in Phoenix. These are photos of their beautiful model. As for me, I have now signed on the dotted line, paid the 15% down, and am committed to moving into a tiny one bedroom in CenterPoint Condominiums.

http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0051_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0052_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0053_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0054_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0055_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0056_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0057_2.jpg
http://www.fastq.com/~williard/IMG_0058_2.jpg

flyer84 Mar 2, 2007 5:28 AM

That model of Mosaic looks amazing!! When do they plan on breaking ground and getting things up in the air? Also, which angle is the first picture of the model? From Ash or University?

loftlovr Mar 2, 2007 9:43 AM

Very cool Willard!

oliveurban Mar 2, 2007 10:50 AM

Yes, thanks for the pics willard. I like this project.


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