SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

YYCguys May 9, 2018 2:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 8181494)
Do you think 789 will begin service out of YYC ?

The new hanger under construction at the Calgary Campus is intended to house the Dreamliner, so I think there could very well be some YYC routes.

The Chemist May 9, 2018 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8181512)
The new hanger under construction at the Calgary Campus is intended to house the Dreamliner, so I think there could very well be some YYC routes.

YYC - PVG! Pretty please? I'll drop my Aeroplan membership in a heartbeat if Westjet starts flying direct!

I'd assume they're going to try joining an alliance at some point - my question would be, which one?

Coldrsx May 9, 2018 3:57 AM

^hell, i'd fly YEG_YYC_PVG.

ish

DrNest May 9, 2018 1:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist (Post 8181564)
I'd assume they're going to try joining an alliance at some point - my question would be, which one?

My money's on SkyTeam due WestJet's strong connections win Delta and KLM/Air France. I recall reading a while back that their codeshare agreement with American was going to end in 2019/20 (? can't recall exact date mentioned) so I doubt it would be One World. As a competitor to Air Canada, I don't see any likelihood of them joining Star Alliance.

casper May 9, 2018 1:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8181729)
My money's on SkyTeam due WestJet's strong connections win Delta and KLM/Air France. I recall reading a while back that their codeshare agreement with American was going to end in 2019/20 (? can't recall exact date mentioned) so I doubt it would be One World. As a competitor to Air Canada, I don't see any likelihood of them joining Star Alliance.

The relationship with American has already ended.

I believe the relationship with Delta is more than a code-share. More like a revenue share of some sort.

esquire May 9, 2018 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8181440)
I don't know the first thing about aviation or the business, but I'm curious about why WestJet doesn't have business class already. A remnant from it's low-fare days? Do they not work on 737s? Some other business strategy?

WS started up as a low-cost carrier with only one seating class but over the years has been morphing more and more into what Canadian Airlines used to be... a 787 with a full on business class section is the next step in that direction. I wouldn't be surprised if they started introducing business class into their 737 fleet. It would begin with cross-country routes like YYZ-YVR/YYC, and then gradually expand into other routes.

On a certain level it makes sense given that if you're chasing corporate accounts and other big spenders you need to be able to compete with AC's offerings. But it does leave the door open for a more disciplined LCC to step in and take on that role and basically attempt to be Canada's Southwest.

MonctonRad May 9, 2018 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8181753)
it does leave the door open for a more disciplined LCC to step in and take on that role and basically attempt to be Canada's Southwest.

I really doubt that the Canadian market is large enough for more than two national carriers and perhaps another couple of medium sized regional carriers.

Air Canada & WestJet fill the national roles pretty well. Porter is doing a fine job of being a premium regional carrier in the east. Is there room beyond these three?? I'm not so sure.

esquire May 9, 2018 1:47 PM

^ If WS completes the transition to becoming what Canadian Airlines once was, I'd say there is a decent opportunity for a plucky upstart to jump into the market and provide LCC/ULCC service that fills the gap between the major airlines and the unstable, unreliable ULCCs like Flair. You know, kind of like that plucky upstart that started out west 22 years ago.

wave46 May 9, 2018 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8181766)
^ If WS completes the transition to becoming what Canadian Airlines once was, I'd say there is a decent opportunity for a plucky upstart to jump into the market and provide LCC/ULCC service that fills the gap between the major airlines and the unstable, unreliable ULCCs like Flair. You know, kind of like that plucky upstart that started out west 22 years ago.

I'd say the opportunity will arise should one of the large carriers experience financial trouble.

It worked for Westjet when Canadian Airlines was going down the tubes and was subsequently absorbed by Air Canada. That gave Air Canada some pretty severe indigestion as well.

That being said, there's no guarantee that this strategy will be a success. Westjet had an easy go of it in establishing a domestic (and to a lesser extent North American) footprint. Now, with a healthy Air Canada and lots of international competition for both premium traffic (BA, Lufthansa, Cathay, etc.) and leisure traffic (Air Transat, Rouge, WOW, Icelandair, most Chinese airlines) there's really no niche for Westjet to slot into. This might just be an expensive mistake. Who knows?

They'll have to grind it out the old-fashioned way - building brand awareness and operations in multiple countries. Their best bet would be to leverage Delta's operations and experience in overseas markets.

craneSpotter May 9, 2018 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8181766)
^ If WS completes the transition to becoming what Canadian Airlines once was, I'd say there is a decent opportunity for a plucky upstart to jump into the market and provide LCC/ULCC service that fills the gap between the major airlines and the unstable, unreliable ULCCs like Flair. You know, kind of like that plucky upstart that started out west 22 years ago.

If I was a WJA investor, I would be concerned with them straying so far from their original business plan... Introducing wide body aircraft to their fleet, it will be interesting to watch their financials over the next 24 months. Looks like they have doubled their debt over the past 4 years. They are not a large company, with deep pockets, but are dreaming big and going into competition with experienced ones that are.

If a plucky upstart starts to eat at their bread and butter domestic runs... they could end up exactly like Canadian Airlines.

GlassCity May 9, 2018 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8181753)
WS started up as a low-cost carrier with only one seating class but over the years has been morphing more and more into what Canadian Airlines used to be... a 787 with a full on business class section is the next step in that direction. I wouldn't be surprised if they started introducing business class into their 737 fleet. It would begin with cross-country routes like YYZ-YVR/YYC, and then gradually expand into other routes.

On a certain level it makes sense given that if you're chasing corporate accounts and other big spenders you need to be able to compete with AC's offerings. But it does leave the door open for a more disciplined LCC to step in and take on that role and basically attempt to be Canada's Southwest.

I would think there would be room for a legitimate LCC to come up in the Canadian market, as WestJet seems to have left that far behind. Maybe it's because I wasn't around when it started, but in my mind I don't make a distinction between Air Canada and WestJet domestically - they offer similar routes at similar prices. It would make sense for one of the LCCs coming up to succeed, given that WestJet appears to have totally vacated that market.

esquire May 9, 2018 6:03 PM

^ WestJet was a LCC when it first started up much like Flair is now, but really for at least the last 10 years it has been evolving into a mainstream, full service airline. I guess Swoop is their attempt at maintaining a foothold in that market, but I suspect that much like with AC's old Zip and Tango sub-brands it's more about fending off competitors than establishing a ULCC brand for the long term.

wave46 May 9, 2018 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8182101)
I would think there would be room for a legitimate LCC to come up in the Canadian market, as WestJet seems to have left that far behind. Maybe it's because I wasn't around when it started, but in my mind I don't make a distinction between Air Canada and WestJet domestically - they offer similar routes at similar prices. It would make sense for one of the LCCs coming up to succeed, given that WestJet appears to have totally vacated that market.

The rub is that one of the incumbents will zealously protect the market and stomp the ULCC out of existence. Westjet or Air Canada can afford to lose money on a few routes to compete with a ULCC, since the funds from other routes will cover that loss.

Currently it looks like Westjet is doing just that with Flair - matching them route for route and I suspect those routes will the first ones that get 'Swooped'.

SpongeG May 10, 2018 6:02 AM

WestJet facing lower ticket sales amid threat of pilots' strike

WestJet is making plans in case of strike action that could start as early as May 19

Tracy Johnson · CBC News · Posted: May 08, 2018

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4654140.152581620...ead-office.JPG
WestJet pilots lined up in front of the airline's head office on Tuesday. (Kyle Bakx/CBC)


As WestJet's pilots consider a strike vote, the airline's passengers are considering other options for travel.

WestJet's pilots, who are represented by the AirLine Pilots Association are negotiating their first contract, after forming a union one year ago. Negotiations for a new contract began in September and the lack of a contract resulted in a strike vote two weeks ago. That vote ends Thursday at 8 a.m. and the earliest pilots could strike is May 19.

As a result of the uncertainty, fewer people are booking flights.

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/west...reat-1.4653903

SpongeG May 10, 2018 6:23 AM

BUSINESS
05/09/2018 15:35 EDT | Updated 10 hours ago

WestJet CEO Apologizes For Asking Passengers To Film Flight Attendants At Work

Union says Ed Sims only apologized for getting caught.
Canadian Press

MONTREAL — The head of WestJet Airlines Inc. has apologized for asking some of its frequent flyers to videotape the service provided by its own flight attendants and those of its chief competitor.

The Calgary-based airline says it asked 14 customers over a seven-day period to input the footage through an app so it could monitor the service they most like.

But the practice has angered WestJet flight attendants who complain it is an invasion of their privacy, against the airline's own rules and not the practice of a caring employer.

Chief executive Ed Sims told reporters that the airline didn't intend to anger flight attendants, who are in the midst of a union drive.

...

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/0...ts_a_23431050/

DrNest May 10, 2018 1:27 PM

I'm surprised at this initial move by the CEO. Not something you'd want from a "caring" company. Like the article says, it breaches trust in the employees.

I've flown WestJet many times with my autistic son, and the flight crew have always been fantastic with him. I make a point after each trip to write Customer Support to thank them. All too often nowadays people are quick to go online and be negative about a company, but aren't as proactive in praising them when it's due.

thenoflyzone May 10, 2018 3:31 PM

According to AC flight schedules, YUL-LIM is going up to 3x weekly as of next December. Also, from another forum, rumor has it YUL will get a new route annoucement to a ''major city'' in the coming months. Don't know how reliable the source is, though.

BOG, TXL, MXP would all qualify as major cities. DKR is also a possibility.

G.S MTL May 10, 2018 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8183301)
According to AC flight schedules, YUL-LIM is going up to 3x weekly as of next December. Also, from another forum, rumor has it YUL will get a new route annoucement to a ''major city'' in the coming months. Don't know how reliable the source is, though.

BOG, TXL, MXP would all qualify as major cities. DKR is also a possibility.

ok but new route with AC or another airline ?

thenoflyzone May 10, 2018 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 8183387)
ok but new route with AC or another airline ?

Wasn't specificed, but highly likely it will be AC/RV. They've been doing most of the expanding at YUL lately....

Anything is possible though.

SaskOttaLoo May 12, 2018 12:35 AM

Market Share for the majors in Canada
 
I was reading about the Canadian Airlines collapse in 1999 and was surprised to come across this on Wikipedia: "At the time of merger, Canadian Airlines carried over 40% of the domestic share of passengers in Canada. Following the completion of the acquisition, Air Canada controlled over 90% of the domestic share of passengers, and dominated international and US-Canada transborder traffic." The reference link is broken, unfortunately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi...es#cite_note-4

Made me shocked that the competition bureau would allow that level of concentration, but also wonder how the situation has evolved to today and what % of the market is now controlled by AC and WS. This link suggests AC has a 45% market share, WS has 25% and Porter only has 3%. http://www.travelmarketreport.com/ar...Growth-in-2018


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.