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thenoflyzone Mar 29, 2018 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov (Post 8136843)
It is the only non-hub that AC serves with both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific flights. It has far more AC service than the "focus cities". However, it has far less AC service, especially international, than the three hub cities.

Based on my calculations, AC daily departures from their hubs/focus cities are as follows:

YYZ 353 (Feb 4)
YUL 156 (Feb 4)
YVR 150 (Feb 4)
YYC 94 (Feb 4)
YOW 55 (March 29)
YHZ 52 (March 29)
YEG 40 (March 29)

So yeah, YYC is clearly ahead of focus cities such as YOW and YHZ, but well behind YUL and YVR. So hub or focus city? It might have been a clear-cut hub 5+ years ago, but with YUL and YVR growing much faster than YYC, that line is getting blurry.

With a few more flight additions, YUL and YVR will have double the departures of YYC. At that point, whether AC says so or not, YYC would be relegated to more of a focus city status.

As I mentioned, DL this year will have 113 daily departures from BOS, and doesn't refer to it as a hub, but rather a focus city.

thenoflyzone Mar 29, 2018 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8136666)
I think the only reason they still call it a hub is so as not to appear losing to Westjet, as Westjet would pounce on any sign of abandonment by AC. They would spin it as they are the only choice for Calgary, and play up all sorts of critisicms. AC is instead keeping it in name only, yet not giving them any real international boosts.

I'm beginning to think the same as well. YYC-NRT seems to have been removed from the schedules for the coming winter season. Still early, so changes are possible, but not a good sign, and if true, clearly illustrates AC's lack of interest in pursuing intl routes out of YYC.

YYCguys Mar 30, 2018 12:09 AM

Would this open the door for WS to utilize their new Dreamliners for that route should AC truly abondon it?

thenoflyzone Mar 30, 2018 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8128634)
Skytrax Best Airports Awards were announced today, with YVR Best Airport in North America, I think this was 9 years in a row. Only North American airport in the top 20 on the worldwide list. And Fairmont Vancouver Airport named 4th best airport hotel in the world, again the only North American one on the top 10 list.


Quote:

Originally Posted by excel (Post 8128642)
Canadian cities that made the list of top 100 airports:

Vancouver - 14 (13 in 2017)
Toronto - 41 (43 in 2017)
Montreal - 67 (80 in 2017)
Halifax - 77 (65 in 2017)

I'm not much of a skytrax pusher, but.....

In the Best Airports by Global Region category, YYZ and YUL are in the top 10 as well for North America.

1 Vancouver
2 Denver
3 Cincinnati
4 Toronto Pearson
5 Houston
6 Atlanta
7 San Francisco
8 Dallas/Fort Worth
9 Seattle
10 Montréal

Also, YUL and YVR are in the top 10 for Best Airport Staff Service in North America.

1 San Francisco
2 Denver
3 Vancouver
4 Cincinnati
5 Minneapolis-Saint Paul
6 Montréal
7 Phoenix
8 Seattle
9 San Diego
10 Houston Intercontinental

Make of it what you will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8137675)
Would this open the door for WS to utilize their new Dreamliners for that route should AC truly abondon it?

Most likely.

chris Mar 30, 2018 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov (Post 8136843)
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/...e-profile.html

Air Canada occasionally refers to YYC as a hub. However, it seems to increasingly only list Pearson, Vancouver, and Montreal lately.

YYC seems to be in a bit of a hybrid place. It is the only non-hub that AC serves with both trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific flights. It has far more AC service than the "focus cities". However, it has far less AC service, especially international, than the three hub cities.

YYC is a hub for AC.

It's just not a "strategic hub" like YYZ, YUL and YVR (AC's words, not mine).

thenoflyzone Mar 30, 2018 12:45 AM

Nice overview of new airlines, routes and increased frequencies for YUL in 2018.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...678181243.html

Quote:


*Five new destinations from Montréal, all served by Air Canada:
Tokyo (from June 1 - year-round)
Bucharest (from June 7 - summer only)
Baltimore and Pittsburgh (from May 17 - year-round)
Victoria (from June 22 - summer only)

*Montréal will welcome a 34th carrier, its 22nd international airline: low-cost carrier Level-France. It will offer a thrice-weekly flight from Montréal to Paris Orly from July 2 to November 3.

*The total number of seats offered will rise by 6%, with 8% growth for the international sector.

*Added seat capacity for the season for several carriers, including Interjet (+ 52%), Air Transat (+ 18%), Air China (+ 10%) and Air Canada (+ 8%).

*Added seat capacity for many destinations, especially for international service, including Tel Aviv (+ 52%), Mexico City (+ 21%) and Paris (+ 4%). The number of weekly flights to Lisbon will double for the summer.

*Several international carriers will increase their flight frequency for the summer season, including Tunisair (four flights/week), Air China (six flights/week to Beijing) and Air Algérie (eight flights/week).

thenoflyzone Mar 30, 2018 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris (Post 8137700)
YYC is a hub for AC.

It's just not a "strategic hub" like YYZ, YUL and YVR (AC's words, not mine).

I would have agreed with you 110% a few years ago. I still mostly do, but in a few years, unless AC adds some flights at YYC, it will be debatable.

cyeg66 Mar 30, 2018 2:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8137675)
Would this open the door for WS to utilize their new Dreamliners for that route should AC truly abondon it?

WS would be over the moon. AC is slowly drawing down their service (despite their rosy pressers). Somewhat ironically, AC is doing to YYC what “every airline in the world” has been doing to YEG, funneling their passengers thru nearby hubs. ;) :haha:

hipster duck Mar 30, 2018 2:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8137680)
I'm not much of a skytrax pusher, but.....

In the Best Airports by Global Region category, YYZ and YUL are in the top 10 as well for North America.

1 Vancouver
2 Denver
3 Cincinnati
4 Toronto Pearson
5 Houston
6 Atlanta
7 San Francisco
8 Dallas/Fort Worth
9 Seattle
10 Montréal

I'm surprised they're not higher. Canadian airports are much better than American airports in almost every way. They're cleaner, newer, more spacious, more architecturally interesting, have faster security lines, are easier to navigate, have much more efficient customs processes, and often have better food and amenity options (relative to size).

It's kind of telling that many of the major US hubs have built and proudly advertise new "International Terminals" that remind me of the dated, pre-renovated domestic wings of our Canadian airports.

Denver is a nice airport, though. I'm surprised Detroit wasn't on here, either.

plrh Mar 30, 2018 2:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8137680)
I'm not much of a skytrax pusher, but.....

In the Best Airports by Global Region category, YYZ and YUL are in the top 10 as well for North America.

1 Vancouver
2 Denver
3 Cincinnati
4 Toronto Pearson
5 Houston
6 Atlanta
7 San Francisco
8 Dallas/Fort Worth
9 Seattle
10 Montréal

Also, YUL and YVR are in the top 10 for Best Airport Staff Service in North America.

1 San Francisco
2 Denver
3 Vancouver
4 Cincinnati
5 Minneapolis-Saint Paul
6 Montréal
7 Phoenix
8 Seattle
9 San Diego
10 Houston Intercontinental

Make of it what you will.



Most likely.

I don't like YVR very much. It is a poor airport for connections. Denver and Houston are far superior. Cincinnati shouldn't be on that list because of the small volume. But YVR is on par with YYZ to avoid for connections. If you live there they are probably great, but for the rest of us you have to pay extra to avoid them. Please excuse my bitching:).

thenoflyzone Mar 30, 2018 12:51 PM

Word has it AC's 4 A333s are coming from TP. (Which were all on short term lease and are ex. SQ frames)

They are all 9 year old RR powered frames, with at best, 233t MTOW. (AC's 8 frames have 230t MTOW)

DrNest Mar 30, 2018 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plrh (Post 8137796)
I don't like YVR very much. It is a poor airport for connections. Denver and Houston are far superior. Cincinnati shouldn't be on that list because of the small volume. But YVR is on par with YYZ to avoid for connections. If you live there they are probably great, but for the rest of us you have to pay extra to avoid them. Please excuse my bitching:).

I'm not sure exactly what criteria they used to rank these airports. I haven't flown through DEN or IAH yet, but from personal experience I wouldn't rank YVR as number one. DTW is far better in my opinion.

Johnny Aussie Mar 31, 2018 4:28 AM

That's the problem with any type of "list."

Not everybody is going to agree with it. Best this, best that... scored based on certain criteria... but what about this, and what about that. In any event Changi is sure happy with their first overall placing!

Downunder, the horror that SYD got rated the highest airport in Australia?

It's actually not that bad but a lot of people don't agree with that.

I said to one guy who called the list absolute rubbish. I said that's the problem, if you don't agree with it, it's rubbish.

casper Mar 31, 2018 9:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8138180)
I'm not sure exactly what criteria they used to rank these airports. I haven't flown through DEN or IAH yet, but from personal experience I wouldn't rank YVR as number one. DTW is far better in my opinion.

Let me tell you have about DEN.

Use to regularly take the YXE-DEN flight a few years ago. Early morning arrival, usually stuck waiting on the aircraft fro 20-30 minutes because US Customers has not arrived, or they arrived and they are doing their morning meeting and not ready to start accepting passengers yet. Not just the odd time, virtually every time. The only US point of entry where I am ever forced to have my baggage inspected by agriculture. Not just me, virtually everyone coming off the flight have to line up to get their suitcase through the x-ray by agriculture.

Finally get through that nonsense. There is no fast-security lane at all for connecting passengers. Your dropped airside and have to line up in the same line as local passengers departing from DEN. Type to get into the fast lane with an Air Canada Star Gold, forget it.

DEN is a poor airport for doing an internal connection.

And IAH, the airport of long walks, no seating at gates.

I would take YVR any day over these two.

I have only been through DTW twice in the past 10 years. My perception is it is an ok airport, however I don't have the same level of experience I have with the other two.

DrNest Mar 31, 2018 7:29 PM

Great! I'm flying through DEN later this year. At least it will be a internal connecting flight, so I won't have to worry about dealing with Immigration and Customs.

bikegypsy Mar 31, 2018 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8137559)
Based on my calculations, AC daily departures from their hubs/focus cities are as follows:

YYZ 353 (Feb 4)
YUL 156 (Feb 4)
YVR 150 (Feb 4)
YYC 94 (Feb 4)
YOW 55 (March 29)
YHZ 52 (March 29)
YEG 40 (March 29)

So yeah, YYC is clearly ahead of focus cities such as YOW and YHZ, but well behind YUL and YVR. So hub or focus city? It might have been a clear-cut hub 5+ years ago, but with YUL and YVR growing much faster than YYC, that line is getting blurry.

With a few more flight additions, YUL and YVR will have double the departures of YYC. At that point, whether AC says so or not, YYC would be relegated to more of a focus city status.

As I mentioned, DL this year will have 113 daily departures from BOS, and doesn't refer to it as a hub, but rather a focus city.

The one airport that really sticks out like a sore thumb in that list is Halifax. It's a small city but pulls in numbers equal to that of Ottawa and Edmonton which are both very much pure O/D airports and are 4-5 times its size. If there's another airport in Canada that deserves the title of AC hub after YYZ, YUL and YVR it would be YHZ in my opinion. There's just no way Halifax is pulling these numbers alone. And YYC is obviously also worthy of this according to the numbers shown here.

hollywoodcory Mar 31, 2018 9:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8138860)
Let me tell you have about DEN.

Use to regularly take the YXE-DEN flight a few years ago. Early morning arrival, usually stuck waiting on the aircraft fro 20-30 minutes because US Customers has not arrived, or they arrived and they are doing their morning meeting and not ready to start accepting passengers yet. Not just the odd time, virtually every time. The only US point of entry where I am ever forced to have my baggage inspected by agriculture. Not just me, virtually everyone coming off the flight have to line up to get their suitcase through the x-ray by agriculture.

Finally get through that nonsense. There is no fast-security lane at all for connecting passengers. Your dropped airside and have to line up in the same line as local passengers departing from DEN. Type to get into the fast lane with an Air Canada Star Gold, forget it.

DEN is a poor airport for doing an internal connection.

And IAH, the airport of long walks, no seating at gates.

I would take YVR any day over these two.

I have only been through DTW twice in the past 10 years. My perception is it is an ok airport, however I don't have the same level of experience I have with the other two.

Had you originated from an airport that had US Pre-clearance, perhaps the connection process would have been a little smoother? No need to go through security again?

I've only had to connect through YVR twice, and both times they were very smooth. YYZ was a awful place to connect, even domestically.

casper Apr 1, 2018 1:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8139243)
Had you originated from an airport that had US Pre-clearance, perhaps the connection process would have been a little smoother? No need to go through security again?

I've only had to connect through YVR twice, and both times they were very smooth. YYZ was a awful place to connect, even domestically.

Yes it is much smother with pre-clearance. However without pre-clearance most US airport are a pain. In most cases without pre-clearance it is much easier to connect in either YVR or YYZ than a US airport.

HfxExpat Apr 1, 2018 4:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikegypsy (Post 8139186)
The one airport that really sticks out like a sore thumb in that list is Halifax. It's a small city but pulls in numbers equal to that of Ottawa and Edmonton which are both very much pure O/D airports and are 4-5 times its size. If there's another airport in Canada that deserves the title of AC hub after YYZ, YUL and YVR it would be YHZ in my opinion. There's just no way Halifax is pulling these numbers alone. And YYC is obviously also worthy of this according to the numbers shown here.

That's very true, YHZ acts as a regional hub for all of Atlantic Canada, which has a population of nearly 2.5 million. This lets Halifax punch above its weight in most areas, including air travel, and arguably be a more important city for Canada than larger ones like Hamilton or even Quebec City.

Air Canada also operates quite a few short network flights from YHZ on Beechcraft 1900Ds, so this pushes up the total flight numbers. In annual passenger traffic, it's still behind YOW and YEG. Nevertheless, YHZ did pass 4 million passengers for the first time in 2017, they've just begun extensive terminal upgrades and renovations, are likely getting a new Maple Leaf Lounge, Westjet is launching direct flights to London and Paris this summer, and the provincial government just gave the airport $11million to secure new direct routes to Europe, the US and Asia. So it's a fairly exciting time for YHZ right now.

ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HfxExpat (Post 8139464)
......and the provincial government just gave the airport $11million to secure new direct routes to Europe, the US and Asia. So it's a fairly exciting time for YHZ right now.

Perhaps a Halifax > Asia service is not all that far-fetched!

Asia and particularly China are already the #1 market for Nova Scotia Lobster ….

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/02/...cotia-lobster/

On the Cargo side…. Korean Air, Yangtze River (Suprana) Airlines, Atlas Cargo (as well as Qatar Airlines) already serve Halifax. Perhaps a Chinese Airline (passenger) can be encouraged to give YHZ a try when they are guaranteed a belly full of Lobster anyway.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...to-south-korea

Currently there is land development aimed at the Asia market taking place along Nova Scotia’s Eastern Shore just 2 hours from YHZ……and one just needs to look at what happened with Germany not so long ago when land developers in the Maritimes and especially Nova Scotia began selling in Europe. Now we have Condor offering 4 wide bodies a week during the summer into Halifax plus the numerous connections available on Icelandair through KEF.

Some days this summer there will be up to six transatlantic flights a day out of Halifax. Not bad for a city of 400,000!


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