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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Alexcaban Mar 17, 2016 3:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7372671)
These new WS services are only 2 month seasonal services. Proof that both markets are marginal at best.

Seems to me WS is having a hard time finding routes where to put these extra 737s that are not needed in Alberta.

These new routes will be a tough go. They're not well timed to connect with GLA, so that option is out. Wish them luck.

Maybe they could give YUL some attention.
Westjet's growth at YUL is pathetic.

LeftCoaster Mar 17, 2016 5:10 PM

Would YUL accept Westjet though? From what I read on the forum it seems as though Montrealers wouldn't necessarily flock to new Westjet service.

G.S MTL Mar 17, 2016 5:17 PM

I have edited the YYZ list for Ethiopian.. as they have shelved the 4th weekly flight to YYZ :) if anyone has any new updates please let me know!! I do follow airlineroute on twitter and get frequent updates but in case I missed something let me know.

G.S MTL Mar 17, 2016 5:21 PM

YUL on page 1 has to be updated for 2015 numbers! 15,517,382 pax

esquire Mar 17, 2016 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7374473)
Would YUL accept Westjet though? From what I read on the forum it seems as though Montrealers wouldn't necessarily flock to new Westjet service.

From what I can tell, the average Canadian would add 50% more travel time and 2 stops on the way if they could save $20 a leg on their trip... if WestJet can compete on price, they'll have customers.

davidivivid Mar 17, 2016 6:11 PM

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DrNest Mar 17, 2016 6:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7374562)
From what I can tell, the average Canadian would add 50% more travel time and 2 stops on the way if they could save $20 a leg on their trip... if WestJet can compete on price, they'll have customers.

I know many folk that live near me and will spend 3 hours driving to Buffalo just to save a small amount on the airfare. For me, the hassle isn't worth it. I'll happily pay less for more flight connections, but the pain to cross the border for a small saving is exactly that.

Alexcaban Mar 17, 2016 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7374473)
Would YUL accept Westjet though? From what I read on the forum it seems as though Montrealers wouldn't necessarily flock to new Westjet service.

While true that Montrealers are definitely more loyal to Air Canada (I remember reading somewhere a few years ago that out of the 13 million at the time almost 6.75 million travel with Air Canada), my 2 cents is that, we are unfamiliar with their product and the lack of bilingual flight attendants.

Johnny Aussie Mar 17, 2016 9:20 PM

The whole save $ versus convenience dilemma.

Always been a huge debate in Vancouver versus Bellingham/SEA as well.

Put a price on everything. So how much $$$ savings would one need to inconvenience oneself. $20? $50? $100? $200? More? The sliding scale would of course depend on the individual. It would take a huge amount of $$$ savings to warrant a 2-3 hour drive plus a border crossing for me to even consider it. But as somebody mentioned above some people would be willing to drive over 3 hours to save $20. No right or wrong just differing opinions.

Just like some folks in Edmonton who would rather pay $100s more just to avoid connecting in Calgary. Connect in Saskatoon? Vancouver? Toronto? Seattle? No problem... But YYC heaven forbid!! All the power to them.

casper Mar 21, 2016 1:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7374917)
The whole save $ versus convenience dilemma.

Always been a huge debate in Vancouver versus Bellingham/SEA as well.

Put a price on everything. So how much $$$ savings would one need to inconvenience oneself. $20? $50? $100? $200? More? The sliding scale would of course depend on the individual. It would take a huge amount of $$$ savings to warrant a 2-3 hour drive plus a border crossing for me to even consider it. But as somebody mentioned above some people would be willing to drive over 3 hours to save $20. No right or wrong just differing opinions.

Just like some folks in Edmonton who would rather pay $100s more just to avoid connecting in Calgary. Connect in Saskatoon? Vancouver? Toronto? Seattle? No problem... But YYC heaven forbid!! All the power to them.

Excellent idea, Saskatoon has a brand new terminal and lack of congestion. introduce hourly flights to Edmonton and setup Saskatoon as the Edmonton connections hub.

If it is a business trip, just the hourly labour cost of having someone spend the time driving to a cross boarder airport makes it a non-starter.

Vacations can be a different store where it is about spending time with family and getting there is part of vacation. The reason road trips are so popular.

khabibulin Mar 21, 2016 2:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7377839)
Excellent idea, Saskatoon has a brand new terminal and lack of congestion. introduce hourly flights to Edmonton and setup Saskatoon as the Edmonton connections hub.

If it is a business trip, just the hourly labour cost of having someone spend the time driving to a cross boarder airport makes it a non-starter.

Vacations can be a different store where it is about spending time with family and getting there is part of vacation. The reason road trips are so popular.

Generally, if a family of 2 or more are flying to a popular location in the southern US, the cost savings are in the $100's. Less so with a poor exchange rate.

big W Mar 21, 2016 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7374917)
The whole save $ versus convenience dilemma.

Just like some folks in Edmonton who would rather pay $100s more just to avoid connecting in Calgary. Connect in Saskatoon? Vancouver? Toronto? Seattle? No problem... But YYC heaven forbid!! All the power to them.

It all depends on the person. I actually am a person who always avoids connecting Calgary and I will pay more for it but that is due to convenience.
When flying domestically you don't have to do a connection in Calgary so why go through the hassle when there really aren't savings to speak of. My time (lets say 2.5 hours each way for 5 hours total) is worth more than $20 max that I might save. (Minimum wage alone means I need significantly more savings than that).

For overseas and US connections I prefer not to connect in Canada period if I can avoid it. I don't having to deal with customs and longer connections times etc. So for example going to San Diego from Edmonton. I can go through YYC and spend time in customs in Calgary both ways or I can pre-clear in Edmonton and connect is Denver for example, faster connection times and less time sitting around in an airport and less hassle for no real savings. If the destination is Rome for example, I would have 2 connections if I wanted to use YYC or 1 using another airport in Canada or Europe. My preference is a connection is say AMS again due to the customs issue and really for the $20 or so that I might save its not worth the hassle of dealing with luggage and connections at YYZ again saving time.

SkydivePilot Mar 21, 2016 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7377839)
Excellent idea, Saskatoon has a brand new terminal and lack of congestion. introduce hourly flights to Edmonton and setup Saskatoon as the Edmonton connections hub.

If it is a business trip, just the hourly labour cost of having someone spend the time driving to a cross boarder airport makes it a non-starter.

Vacations can be a different store where it is about spending time with family and getting there is part of vacation. The reason road trips are so popular.

Hourly flights between Saskatoon and Edmonton? (Maybe In 40 years. Lol!!!)

EIA's terminal is amazing, and every time I connect through there, it's never congested. Beautiful ATB in Edmonton! :tup:

hipster duck Mar 21, 2016 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7374917)
The whole save $ versus convenience dilemma.

Always been a huge debate in Vancouver versus Bellingham/SEA as well.

Put a price on everything. So how much $$$ savings would one need to inconvenience oneself. $20? $50? $100? $200? More? The sliding scale would of course depend on the individual. It would take a huge amount of $$$ savings to warrant a 2-3 hour drive plus a border crossing for me to even consider it. But as somebody mentioned above some people would be willing to drive over 3 hours to save $20. No right or wrong just differing opinions.

Just like some folks in Edmonton who would rather pay $100s more just to avoid connecting in Calgary. Connect in Saskatoon? Vancouver? Toronto? Seattle? No problem... But YYC heaven forbid!! All the power to them.

Back when the dollar was high and the price of flying to a sun destination like Florida or Vegas was CAD500 vs. USD250, a family of four could have almost saved a thousand bucks by flying out of a nearby US airport.

EDIT: Noticed khabibulin pointed this out already.

Johnny Aussie Mar 21, 2016 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 7378669)
Back when the dollar was high and the price of flying to a sun destination like Florida or Vegas was CAD500 vs. USD250, a family of four could have almost saved a thousand bucks by flying out of a nearby US airport.

EDIT: Noticed khabibulin pointed this out already.

Yeah I did it twice only in my entire time living in Vancouver. Once we scored two return SEA-EWR on CO for $99 each way. Crazy cheap. Nonstop from YVR was close to $300 each way plus the taxes were higher. Even with the exchange rate then (can't remember the exact year but probably mid-late 90s)... Saved close to $400 each. Did a BLI-SEA-SNA return once as well same sort of cheap deal.

Today I'd be much less likely to do that if I still lived there but that was some serious savings then.

craneSpotter Mar 22, 2016 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 7378669)
Back when the dollar was high and the price of flying to a sun destination like Florida or Vegas was CAD500 vs. USD250, a family of four could have almost saved a thousand bucks by flying out of a nearby US airport.

EDIT: Noticed khabibulin pointed this out already.

Yes. We (4) did this several times even from Victoria when the dollar was strong - from SEA going to California, Hawaii, Arizona and Florida. Even taking the cost of the ferry and an overnight hotel stay (outbound) into account, we usually saved ~$1000 when compared to similar flights out of YYJ. We integrated the travel to SEA as part our trip, so it just became the first leg of the journey, which we enjoyed (getting there is half the fun, right?). We would head over to SEA (via Port Angeles) the day before our flight, check into a hotel and go have dinner - then fly out domestic the next morning. On the way back we would time flights to arrive before noon and drive straight to Port Angeles or Delta.

We knew several other families that did this, whether through SEA or BLI.

Another benefit of flying out of SEA is that we had access to more airlines (like JetBlue) with more non-stop frequencies to more US airports. We could choose airlines that use secondary terminals at large US airports - like flying into T2 at PHX, which I always find much quieter and faster to get in and out of than T4 - where AC and WJ fly. We could also choose secondary airports, like using LGB, SNA and ONT and avoiding LAX when traveling to southern California! SNA is the closest airport to Disneyland and saves probably 1.5 hours of travel time just to/from airport and hotel compared to LAX, plus the terminal is faster to get in/out of :)

Now with the dollar, we are flying out of YYJ for our next two trips to California, because it is equal or cheaper - especially when using travel miles.

casper Mar 24, 2016 4:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 7379751)
Yes. We (4) did this several times even from Victoria when the dollar was strong - from SEA going to California, Hawaii, Arizona and Florida. Even taking the cost of the ferry and an overnight hotel stay (outbound) into account, we usually saved ~$1000 when compared to similar flights out of YYJ. We integrated the travel to SEA as part our trip, so it just became the first leg of the journey, which we enjoyed (getting there is half the fun, right?). We would head over to SEA (via Port Angeles) the day before our flight, check into a hotel and go have dinner - then fly out domestic the next morning. On the way back we would time flights to arrive before noon and drive straight to Port Angeles or Delta.

We knew several other families that did this, whether through SEA or BLI.

Another benefit of flying out of SEA is that we had access to more airlines (like JetBlue) with more non-stop frequencies to more US airports. We could choose airlines that use secondary terminals at large US airports - like flying into T2 at PHX, which I always find much quieter and faster to get in and out of than T4 - where AC and WJ fly. We could also choose secondary airports, like using LGB, SNA and ONT and avoiding LAX when traveling to southern California! SNA is the closest airport to Disneyland and saves probably 1.5 hours of travel time just to/from airport and hotel compared to LAX, plus the terminal is faster to get in/out of :)

Now with the dollar, we are flying out of YYJ for our next two trips to California, because it is equal or cheaper - especially when using travel miles.

This only makes sense when travelling for a Vacation. Traveling for business, if you factor in the extra hours in travel time you need to be saving $1,000 or more per employee before it makes financial sense and even then only if you don't have more valuable things for that employee to do.

SaskScraper Mar 24, 2016 5:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7377839)
Excellent idea, Saskatoon has a brand new terminal and lack of congestion. introduce hourly flights to Edmonton and setup Saskatoon as the Edmonton connections hub.

If it is a business trip, just the hourly labour cost of having someone spend the time driving to a cross boarder airport makes it a non-starter.

Vacations can be a different store where it is about spending time with family and getting there is part of vacation. The reason road trips are so popular.

I could see Saskatoon YXE becoming a mini-hub of sorts for all of Saskatchewan if not The Prairies on a light basis.. I've had friends flying Westjet from Calgary to Vegas connect through Saskatoon's non-stop flights to Vegas..Usually Saskatchewan's passengers fly through Calgary to get to where they want to go but it can work in reverse for Calgary's passengers to connect through Saskatoon too..

jmt18325 Mar 24, 2016 1:39 PM

Sometimes the flight is cheap with a connection you don't necessarily want. Saskatoon has a good chance of becoming the main airport in Saskatchewan, but I wouldn't hope for much beyond that.

esquire Mar 24, 2016 2:40 PM

The closest I came to connecting in Sask was when they had United service to Regina and Saskatoon... quite often Aeroplan flights to the US would involve stopping there before going on to Denver and then on to the final destination. I always managed to avoid those offerings, mainly because adding a segment would mean adding a couple hours of travel time to the trip.

But really, there just isn't enough frequency to make Regina and Saskatoon real hubs. You'll get the odd person buying a last minute ticket from YEG-YXE-YWG if that happens to be substantially cheaper than the nonstop, but that's about it I'd imagine.


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