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JayPro Oct 11, 2013 7:54 AM

Yeah...that's just it.
The idea that the so-called "meeting" was gonna be highlighted by a compkete rendering was a bunch of cack. It turned out to be for the base shown in the pic and nothing else. That IMO explains why all the protestations about the cantilevering got tuned the way they did.
It turns out that nothing that we see above the podium is final.
Not the cantilever; not the facade; not the width of the residential shaft....
Not. A. Dad. Gum. Thing.
I'm sure what we're seeing at street level in the render is complete, though.

NYguy Oct 11, 2013 12:05 PM

^ Well, that meeting was particularly about the cantilever over the landmarked building. They could have shown renderings of the complete tower then, but chose not to. It's not surprising to me though because Extell played it very close with One57. It was under construction before we had an idea of what it looked like. Unlike other renderings that we are used to seeing where the design is tweeked and tweeked again, when we get the full thing here, it will show exactly what is being built.

I still believe the video is accurate, we just couldn't see enough details in it to give us a clear picture of the final design. Official renderings will give us the full story, views from every angle, interiors, etc.

NYguy Oct 11, 2013 12:56 PM

Community Board Rejects Extell’s Plan to Cantilever Skyscraper Over Landmarked Art Students League

By Kim Velsey


Though they are amazingly popular with billionaires, Gary Barnett’s luxury developments are not always well-liked by other residents, and at the Community Board 5 meeting Thursday night, his latest project met with widespread disapproval. After lengthy deliberation, the board voted to reject Extell’s request for a permit to cantilever a 1,550-foot super-skyscraper at 217 West 57th Street over the landmarked Students Art League next door.

Mr. Barnett himself appeared at the Community Board meeting, in the company of a small army of consultants, lawyers and underlings, to ask the board to approve the plans for what has been dubbed the Nordstrom Tower because the retailer plans to open its first New York department store in the tower’s base (a hotel and luxury condos will, of course, rise above).

“I know that there’s a big issue about the height and tall buildings being built around Central Park, but this is the wrong building to talk about that issue,” Mr. Barnett said, essentially asking the Community Board to divorce the cantilever from any other issues regarding the skyscraper or the recent construction boom of super-skinny luxury towers along West 57th Street.

In this, he echoed all the other Extell representatives and consultants who spoke, along with the executive director of the Art Students League, a representative from Nordstrom and Community Board 5′s landmarks committee, who recommended approving the cantilever, asserting that the feature would have no effect whatsoever on the landmark, being more than 200 feet above the ground. (Both Extell and Nordstrom claim that the retailer “needs” the cantilever to allow for expansive, column-free space on the first five floors of the tower.)

The majority of board members, however, disagreed, including Karen Pedrazzi, who had voted for the plan as a member of the landmarks committee, but reversed her stance on Thursday night, telling the crowd that “I don’t think Extell has been a good neighbor, it’s just taken me this long to wake up.”

Just days earlier, a crane malfunction at One57, Extell’s luxury condo tower at 157 West 57th Street, shut down the block for some four hours as construction workers struggled to return an unbalanced 13,500-pound counterweight to the ground. For many on the street it was an unpleasant reminder of Hurricane Sandy, when the skyscraper’s broken crane forced a week-long evacuation. Indeed, a number of community board members cited the safety of not only the Student Arts League, but the entire neighborhood given the crane-related incidents, evacuations and street shutdowns that have been caused by the construction of the 1,005-foot One57.

Others complained of Extell’s unforthcomingness in regards to the project. Indeed, renderings of the cantilever released by the developer show only the base of the tower, rather than the entire structure—perhaps an attempt to reinforce the separation between the cantilever, which requires Community Board approval, and the rest of the tower, which does not.

“We keep being asked to approve these small items without ever getting the bigger picture,” said Community Board member Ina Clark. “This is 50 percent taller than One57, the building that’s freaking us out with crane incidents. And we don’t know anything about the sky, the traffic, the shadow, how it’s going to effect everyone in Central Park.”

The question is just how much influence the Community Board’s denial of the special permit will have on the high-rise. As the project’s defenders reminded the crowd time and time again, the tower is being built as-of-right, with a lot merger and air rights purchases allowing for the building’s incredible height regardless of Community Board approval. The only reason the developer needed to come before the Community Board at all is because it wants to cantilever over a landmarked building.

Whether or not the community board’s stand will be able to win any real concessions from Extell, let alone a new non-cantilevering new design from architects Smith + Gorden Gill Architecture LLP, remains to be seen. Extell’s thoughts on the issue are similarly opaque: Donna Gargano, a senior vice presdient of development, refused comment after the vote.

They need to go ahead and design the tower as-of-right, just as was done with One57. Forget about cantilevering over landmarks already. My guess is that there already is a plan B.

antinimby Oct 11, 2013 1:39 PM

That's good news IMO. Now go back to the drawing boards and give us a design that we can really get excited about.

ILNY Oct 11, 2013 1:39 PM

I wonder if not having cantilever will make them go to full height 1550ft since this would allow to have more units with unobstructed central park views.

Blaze23 Oct 11, 2013 3:23 PM

Good News! Can't believe I'm actually rooting for the NIMBYs.

hunser Oct 11, 2013 3:39 PM


Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6299375)

They need to go ahead and design the tower as-of-right, just as was done with One57. Forget about cantilevering over landmarks already. My guess is that there already is a plan B.

And hopefully plan B is to built higher, i.e. to the original height. Without the cantilever, this tower needs to rise far above 220 CPS now.

hunser Oct 11, 2013 3:42 PM

That said, they need to to higher. There's just no other option with 220 CPS interfering.

easy as pie Oct 11, 2013 4:04 PM

wow, score one for the nimbys!!!! can extell just go to the department of buildings and get a permit issued anyway?

NYguy Oct 11, 2013 4:40 PM

LOL, so we're all on the side of NIMBYs all of a sudden, but it's not over. The hearing at LPC is scheduled for the 22nd, Tuesday after next.

Submariner Oct 11, 2013 6:44 PM

Why not move the tower to the front of the front of the building (on 58th) and forget the cantilever all together? It seems that would make the core more "development friendly" when it comes to the Nordstrom portion of the tower.

NYguy Oct 11, 2013 7:12 PM

Looking at that photo, it looks like it could be shifted, one way or the other. But I think in the past week or so we've had a lesson on presentation, both concerning landmark buildings. We see a great design met with enthusiasm (111 w. 57th) and we se a questionable design, with not much of a presentation at all (Nordstrom). I think Extell and Nordstrom should have been more upfront about the design of this tower, or presented something that would have been great enough to erase any concerns about the cantilever. The crane malfunction a few days ago at One57 didn't help things. They could have had more of those people in their corner with a better presentation. The secretive nature of the way they are going about it makes people a little uneasy, they wonder what Extell's hiding.

I hope this is a lesson concerning 1 Vanderbilt also. People are wary of tall buildings - let alone supertalls - and if you present something of that scale less than worthy of this city, they may not accept it. We've had three reveals (sort of) in the past couple of weeks or so, and only one is really being met with a level of enthusiasm and excitement.

King DenCity Oct 11, 2013 7:14 PM

I am happy!

JayPro Oct 11, 2013 9:58 PM

Jeebus Twerking Chrissamus...They might as well calls this Plan C, coz IMO this whole cantilever thing's really starting to look like a poorly thought out overreaction to the masterpiece that 111 W57 needs to be started on now, and to hell with permit niceties.
This is beyond exasperating right now; and it's gotten to the point that Extell, Norstrom's and Smith/Gill should be given "HELLO My name is" stickers with the names Moe, Shemp and Larry on them and have them fight over who gets what.
I mean dammit.........

hunser Oct 11, 2013 11:53 PM

Maybe not worthy of opening a new thread but still promising news:


Despite his critics, Mr. Shvo is forging ahead. He recently went into contract for a second, even more ambitious development, in partnership with Erez Itzhaki of the Keystone Group. The project, 100 Varick Street, is to be built on nearly half an acre between Broome and Watts Streets. The site is an assemblage of several town houses, development parcels and air rights that took six months to acquire. The developers are proposing a 30-story condominium and expect to complete more than $800 million in sales. He says he also is putting together two deals near Central Park in Midtown, one of them for a 100-story tower.
Well, get ready for a 500m+ über! :cheers:

For further discussion see here:

or a new thread.

nomad11 Oct 12, 2013 12:03 AM

Another supertall potentially rising near central park? It's almost unbelievable if all of these proposals/visions come to fruition.

Crawford Oct 12, 2013 12:30 AM


Originally Posted by easy as pie (Post 6299619)
wow, score one for the nimbys!!!! can extell just go to the department of buildings and get a permit issued anyway?

The Community Board vote is just advisory, and it's expected that they will vote no. Community Boards tend to be NIMBY, and vote against development 90% of the time.

And, in any case, they aren't asking for approval for the building as a whole, but for a cantilever, to accommodate the retail better.

Crawford Oct 12, 2013 12:42 AM


Originally Posted by hunser (Post 6300307)
Well, get ready for a 500m+ über! :cheers:

For further discussion see here:

or a new thread.

My wild guess is that the 100 floor building will be the development site at 50 W. 58th Street. The owners have been attempting a major assemblage with adjacent properties to the south on 57th Street.

This assemblage got started when Hadassah (a Jewish women's organization) sold off its office building on 58th Street last year.

babybackribs2314 Oct 12, 2013 12:54 AM

The 100-story possibility is INSANE and affirms 57th Street's rise as the densest and most prominent skyscraper canyon in the entire world - developing cities like Dubai and Shanghai may have several supertalls, but none are arranged in the fashion of 57th Street's behemoths, where you can appreciate the thoroughfare's sheer density.

In fact, NYC may actually surpass both of the aforementioned in # of supertalls as well, if the current batch of proposals (what; we're at 15-20 now?) are all built. Insanity!

And even more ridiculous is the fact that the NIMBYs are correct in the case of 225 W 57th, and that YIMBY is leading the charge. It feels shameful, wrong, confusing, and bewildering to take an anti-Nordstrom Tower position, but Extell's lack of transparency & blatant disregard for the ASL in the discussion of the tower's rise is the catalyst. I am all for a 2,000' tower at 225 West 57th, as long as the design is stupendous; focusing the discussion on JUST the cantilever when the building is going to have such an enormous impact is unwise on Barnett's part.

antinimby Oct 12, 2013 1:21 AM

Let's not get carried away here. It's all just talk and speculation at this point. Lots of things can happen that can derail some if not all these ambitious projects, not the least of which is this government crisis Washington is currently going through.

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