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hollywoodcory Mar 11, 2023 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9888038)
Of course they will. That's what WS has done all along, copy cat Flair where possible.

To be fair, WS has been running YYC-AZA for years. I believe they launched it in response to NewLeaf/Flair back in like 2017 but ended up keeping it around. Maybe it's gained enough traffic to operate the split PHX/AZA ops.

hollywoodcory Mar 11, 2023 6:32 PM

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/ai...ines-singapore

Also WS got approval to codeshare on flights to a few Asian countries. Lines up with the new NRT slot pair they got. So perhaps an expanded JL codeshare is coming shortly.

Djeffery Mar 11, 2023 7:02 PM

4 Flair aircraft seized...

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other...c0d740416&ei=9

zahav Mar 11, 2023 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9889277)

Uh oh, sounds like trouble. Bets are on for when the first LLC/ULCC goes under.

zahav Mar 11, 2023 7:18 PM

I did a comparison of weekly WS departures this summer by airport (I randomly chose week of July 10-16). I haven't compiled YYC yet, but did the next tier airports. See below:

YVR - 450 weekly departures
YEG - 346 weekly departures
YYZ - 313 weekly departures

YYC will be insanely above these, I'll edit my post soon to include it.

So crazy that YEG will have more departures than YYZ, just such a 180 from pre-Covid. There was a time when YYZ had more weekly departures than YYC! Now they are in fourth. Keep in mind this is just departures, not traffic, so there might be some ranking change (YYZ has more mainline flights than YEG, they are actually 100% mainline thus summer). So all jet flying might narrow the gap in traffic, even though YEG will have more flights. I'm sure I can dig into it to get some seat numbers, but too tired for that now.

And sounds like schedules shift a bit in August too, but don't think I'll re-do the list for then, can't see it changing things that much

whatnext Mar 11, 2023 8:42 PM

Yeah, I’d feel confident buying a ticket….

]Flair Airlines has four airplanes seized after failing to pay the leasing company, causing several cancelled flights
ERIC ATKINSTRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED 1 HOUR AGO

An aircraft leasing company seized four planes operated by Flair Airlines on Saturday for non-payment, causing the cancellation of several of the discount carrier’s flights at the start of the busy March Break travel season.

Working with bailiffs, the leasing company, Dublin-based Airborne Capital Ltd., issued lease termination notices to Flair representatives and grounded four Boeing 737s, two at Toronto Pearson Airport, one in Edmonton and one in Waterloo, Ont. Airborne also leases to Flair another two 737s, which have not been seized…..


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...-planes-lease/

JakeLRS Mar 11, 2023 9:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9889343)
Yeah, I’d feel confident buying a ticket….

]Flair Airlines has four airplanes seized after failing to pay the leasing company, causing several cancelled flights
ERIC ATKINSTRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED 1 HOUR AGO

An aircraft leasing company seized four planes operated by Flair Airlines on Saturday for non-payment, causing the cancellation of several of the discount carrier’s flights at the start of the busy March Break travel season.

Working with bailiffs, the leasing company, Dublin-based Airborne Capital Ltd., issued lease termination notices to Flair representatives and grounded four Boeing 737s, two at Toronto Pearson Airport, one in Edmonton and one in Waterloo, Ont. Airborne also leases to Flair another two 737s, which have not been seized…..


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...-planes-lease/

Oh boy… this will be absolutely tragic for the marketplace if flair goes under. smaller airports have been benefiting a ton from flair’s presence.

hehehe Mar 12, 2023 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9889255)
To be fair, WS has been running YYC-AZA for years. I believe they launched it in response to NewLeaf/Flair back in like 2017 but ended up keeping it around. Maybe it's gained enough traffic to operate the split PHX/AZA ops.

Yeah I don't think they'll cut it. I believe there were a couple winters where they were the only ones flying YYC-AZA as well?

hollywoodcory Mar 12, 2023 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9889489)
Yeah I don't think they'll cut it. I believe there were a couple winters where they were the only ones flying YYC-AZA as well?

There was only one winter they had competition on that route, last year when Flair operated it for a single season.

Otherwise they’ve been the sole carrier actually flying it.

whatnext Mar 12, 2023 7:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9889359)
Oh boy… this will be absolutely tragic for the marketplace if flair goes under. smaller airports have been benefiting a ton from flair’s presence.

Meh, I’ve been saying since the beginning there’s no was Flair can be close to covering costs. There’s something going on there and it doesn’t serve the marketplace if they’re weakening legitimate carriers through shenanigans.

hehehe Mar 12, 2023 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9889595)
Meh, I’ve been saying since the beginning there’s no was Flair can be close to covering costs. There’s something going on there and it doesn’t serve the marketplace if they’re weakening legitimate carriers through shenanigans.

Rumour is that some fuelers are going cash only at some airports with Flair.

Nashe Mar 12, 2023 1:12 PM

As much as I'd normally consider this a ridiculous option, the hot mess that is Canada's air industry makes me almost wish for an officially governmentally partially funded airline. Given the bailouts distributed throughout history, the business case might not be insane. Overall would it be financially competitive? Likely not. Would it be more stable and reliable? Possibly. I don't think it's far-fetched, given that air travel is just another form of mass transit.

MonctonRad Mar 12, 2023 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nashe (Post 9889658)
As much as I'd normally consider this a ridiculous option, the hot mess that is Canada's air industry makes me almost wish for an officially governmentally partially funded airline. Given the bailouts distributed throughout history, the business case might not be insane. Overall would it be financially competitive? Likely not. Would it be more stable and reliable? Possibly. I don't think it's far-fetched, given that air travel is just another form of mass transit.

Air Canada used to be a state airline. There is merit to this in a country like Canada (geographically large with a widely scattered small population and a dearth of alternative public transport options.
What are the alternatives to air travel in this country?

- VIA Rail is virtually non existent outside the Windsor to Quebec City corridor.
- There is only a bare bones national highway system, with no national freeway system, and the country reduced to a single two lane highway at one point connecting the east to the west.
- There is no national bus line. Just a hodge lodge of disconnected regional services.

If you can't fly to your destination, then how the fuck do people who don't/can't drive get there?

There is a definite need in this country for a regulated passenger airline network that provides for reliable scheduled air service with a minimum base frequency. This is especially true if the governments of this country refuse to support a national rail service, or a mandated national bus service.

At what point does Canada cease being a unified country???

manny_santos Mar 12, 2023 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9889343)
Yeah, I’d feel confident buying a ticket….

]Flair Airlines has four airplanes seized after failing to pay the leasing company, causing several cancelled flights
ERIC ATKINSTRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED 1 HOUR AGO

An aircraft leasing company seized four planes operated by Flair Airlines on Saturday for non-payment, causing the cancellation of several of the discount carrier’s flights at the start of the busy March Break travel season.

Working with bailiffs, the leasing company, Dublin-based Airborne Capital Ltd., issued lease termination notices to Flair representatives and grounded four Boeing 737s, two at Toronto Pearson Airport, one in Edmonton and one in Waterloo, Ont. Airborne also leases to Flair another two 737s, which have not been seized…..


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...-planes-lease/

I had planned to fly with Flair on their new YVR-YXU route when it launches in June. I’m now thinking I should fly with someone else. Too risky.

Dominion301 Mar 12, 2023 5:43 PM

FI had a 7M9 tail strike a few days ago at YYZ: https://avherald.com/h?article=5063b57f&opt=0

whatnext Mar 12, 2023 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9889726)
I had planned to fly with Flair on their new YVR-YXU route when it launches in June. I’m now thinking I should fly with someone else. Too risky.

Yes, I'd reconsider.

The problem is that on the way down these type of "jetsgo" carriers can take down others. I wonder how much of WS retrenchment is due to pressure being put on it by Flair poaching the lower part of their market?

whatnext Mar 12, 2023 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9889359)
Oh boy… this will be absolutely tragic for the marketplace if flair goes under. smaller airports have been benefiting a ton from flair’s presence.

Another interesting bit of info in regards to the flights Flair had to cancel:

…Company spokesperson Mike Arnot says a number of Flair flights were cancelled Saturday morning, but the company has three spare aircraft to backfill those flights.…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/fla...ures-1.6776186

Successful airlines generally don’t have three spare a/c lying around…:rolleyes:

hehehe Mar 13, 2023 6:14 AM

The Flair airlines plane repossession news has reached here in Australia now :haha:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/flai...1a3b7c6e8b3d02

JakeLRS Mar 13, 2023 12:39 PM

Lynx Air adds YYC-YYZ-YFC (Fredericton,NB) 3x weekly.

casper Mar 13, 2023 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9889911)
Another interesting bit of info in regards to the flights Flair had to cancel:

…Company spokesperson Mike Arnot says a number of Flair flights were cancelled Saturday morning, but the company has three spare aircraft to backfill those flights.…
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/fla...ures-1.6776186

Successful airlines generally don’t have three spare a/c lying around…:rolleyes:

The Global and Mail article make it sound like two of the leasing companies that have aircraft with Flair were shopping them around to see if their was another Canadian airline interested in taking over the lease. One would assume if Air Canada or WestJet were interested in the aircraft their would have been more than 3 taken back.

Given they are licensed in Canada already they are more attractive to a Canadian airline than in another country where there is extra paper work.


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