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YYCguys Dec 13, 2019 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8774649)
No I don't think so. They built up that brand over a long time - it's a good brand. Dangerous to change it now. However Encore is less 'regional', or maybe they introduce a new regional brand for the East - but mainline remains WestJet.

Westjet Link has been successful for them so far, out west, so maybe they will try to do something similar out east?

plrh Dec 13, 2019 1:37 PM

Eastjet? Is that too obvious? :shrug:

theshark Dec 13, 2019 1:40 PM

Montreal-Nashville, on AC, starting june 1st 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...rom-june-2020/

J81 Dec 13, 2019 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8773091)
Well, CX will cancel their YVR-JFK flight by the end of March, and there is no additional capacity for the summer months so far for any of the New York route. Even if the CX flight have a load factor of ~45%, those 150 or so people would need to go somewhere...?

The winter months will be handle by DL for converting their YVR-JFK route to year-round.

I dont think you can book a CX ticket between YVR and JFK. Isnt that cabotage?

Dominion301 Dec 13, 2019 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 8774846)
I dont think you can book a CX ticket between YVR and JFK. Isnt that cabotage?

That’s called 5th freedom traffic rights, not cabotage and that route is ending soon. 5th freedoms are a holdover from yesteryear when nonstops were impossible between two distant points and allowed an airline to pickup traffic along the way in order to make a route viable. Cabotage is domestic flying by a foreign airline. New Zealand and Australia have reciprocal cabotage rights. Most of Europe allows for cabotage among EU carriers.

EK actually just launched a new 5th freedom DXB-BCN-MEX.

Cage Dec 13, 2019 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8774111)
WS CEO Sims says newly privatized WS will at last shift their focus to YOW, YUL and YYZ: https://business.financialpost.com/t...#comments-area

Bring on Onex! Maybe WS at YOW and YUL will finally start to outgrow WS at YLW.

The journo was from Toronto and Ed Sims all ready knew that, so he told the reporter exactly what she and her readers wanted to hear.

One thing new CEOs and VP Network Planning people learn from communications staff; always have a positive, but noncommittal answer for local journos.

If you ask CX if they would like to serve YYC, the answer will always be "At the moment, we don't have the right fleet and would need an expanded bilateral between our country and yours. In the future once our new fleet of 789/778/350 etc arrive and we get additional route rights, we can look at serving your city". 3 years later the same executive gives the same answer to a new journo. Wash, rinse, repeat.

The whole article has an Ontario and Quebec centric approach and would love to have heard the questions. One of the things I like about hearing from live Q&A media availability is that you get full context about the journos angle.

As for actually expanding in YOW, YYZ, and YUL; first step will be getting back to mainline on YYZ-YUL. Currently its 8 Q400s and 2 737s. Further down the line, lets see what gifts the Competition Tribunal will have for WS in order to approve AC-TS merger. WS will angle to get as many gates and routes from AC/TS as possible. Competition Tribunal might even impose some route restrictions on AC/TS.


Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8774146)
Surprise surprise. The major decisions @ WS will now be made in Toronto by the parent. I imagine over time some WS executives may move east.

Doubtful that Onex will take that much of an active role in WS. Also zero chance anything more than 1 VP level person moves out east. If there is an executive based in YYZ, it will be because that person doesn't want to move their family to YYC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaws (Post 8774311)
I think Westjet gets a name change at some point.

The name change question is brought up by reporters/journos who don't have a lot research into WestJet. The questioners need to have responses that speak to their local reader/viewer base. The name change angle is an attempt to get into the story something the writer can understand and write about intelligently.

casper Dec 13, 2019 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 8775267)
The journo was from Toronto and Ed Sims all ready knew that, so he told the reporter exactly what she and her readers wanted to hear.

One thing new CEOs and VP Network Planning people learn from communications staff; always have a positive, but noncommittal answer for local journos.

If you ask CX if they would like to serve YYC, the answer will always be "At the moment, we don't have the right fleet and would need an expanded bilateral between our country and yours. In the future once our new fleet of 789/778/350 etc arrive and we get additional route rights, we can look at serving your city". 3 years later the same executive gives the same answer to a new journo. Wash, rinse, repeat.

The whole article has an Ontario and Quebec centric approach and would love to have heard the questions. One of the things I like about hearing from live Q&A media availability is that you get full context about the journos angle.

As for actually expanding in YOW, YYZ, and YUL; first step will be getting back to mainline on YYZ-YUL. Currently its 8 Q400s and 2 737s. Further down the line, lets see what gifts the Competition Tribunal will have for WS in order to approve AC-TS merger. WS will angle to get as many gates and routes from AC/TS as possible. Competition Tribunal might even impose some route restrictions on AC/TS.




Doubtful that Onex will take that much of an active role in WS. Also zero chance anything more than 1 VP level person moves out east. If there is an executive based in YYZ, it will be because that person doesn't want to move their family to YYC.



The name change question is brought up by reporters/journos who don't have a lot research into WestJet. The questioners need to have responses that speak to their local reader/viewer base. The name change angle is an attempt to get into the story something the writer can understand and write about intelligently.

Best option for WestJet to get a sold base in Quebec would be to purchase Porter, let them but the C-series they have on being effective in serving french speakers. WestJet is linguistically going to do the minimum it has to.

TheGreatestX Dec 13, 2019 10:03 PM

New Swoop routes:
Edmonton-Kamloops
Edmonton-San Diego
Winnipeg-Victoria
Winnipeg-London, ON
https://www.flyswoop.com/news/2020-s...edule-release/

LeftCoaster Dec 13, 2019 10:20 PM

Winnipeg to Victoria? Didn't see that one coming.

LeftCoaster Dec 13, 2019 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8774481)
I wonder how the yields and loads will be on the YYC-BOS flight with both AC and WS doing dailies. Seems like a pissing contest more than anything, and a rather desperate one at that. Nothing like a good old fashioned see who blinks first contest lol, it will probably be both of them!

From no flights to double daily on 150 seat aircraft... something's going to give, and I'd guess it's Air Canada.

zahav Dec 13, 2019 10:39 PM

I think it will be AC too. Such a weird move for them.

I find it so odd that YXU has/will have flights to YXX, YYC, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ but none to YVR. Seems so odd, I guess because WS wants everyone to go thru YYC and AC doesn't really care except for their short Jazz flights. Just funny that they have flights to all of those places and not the 2nd busiest airport in the country

Djeffery Dec 13, 2019 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8775491)
I think it will be AC too. Such a weird move for them.

I find it so odd that YXU has/will have flights to YXX, YYC, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ but none to YVR. Seems so odd, I guess because WS wants everyone to go thru YYC and AC doesn't really care except for their short Jazz flights. Just funny that they have flights to all of those places and not the 2nd busiest airport in the country

We have had YVR a few different times. Zip or Tango years ago (YHZ-YXU-YVR and reverse) and WS did it a few summers ago. I'm assuming it must not have sold well enough for WS to continue it, and to give us YXX on Swoop instead. Maybe we can earn our way back to YVR, I don't know.

TheGreatestX Dec 13, 2019 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8775491)
I think it will be AC too. Such a weird move for them.

I find it so odd that YXU has/will have flights to YXX, YYC, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ but none to YVR. Seems so odd, I guess because WS wants everyone to go thru YYC and AC doesn't really care except for their short Jazz flights. Just funny that they have flights to all of those places and not the 2nd busiest airport in the country

YXU has year round flights to YEG too.

craneSpotter Dec 14, 2019 2:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8774702)
Westjet Link has been successful for them so far, out west, so maybe they will try to do something similar out east?

I think Encore should work fine out east.

The big question is: Does Onex guide WestJet back to being NA focused carrier (original business plan based on Southwest - one aircraft type - keep it simple), clipping its international (trans ocean) expansion aspirations.

Onex wants to reclaim WS's market Cap, which has been significantly diminished since WS started adding expensive 787s and flying across the Atlantic (and talking Asia in the future).

Or... do they take on the major carriers head on and fund/finance rapid international expansion to Europe and Asia...a quick way to bleed money...?

Jaws Dec 14, 2019 3:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8774649)
No I don't think so. They built up that brand over a long time - it's a good brand. Dangerous to change it now. However Encore is less 'regional', or maybe they introduce a new regional brand for the East - but mainline remains WestJet.

CP Air didn’t miss a beat when they rebranded as Canadian

samuelx88 Dec 14, 2019 3:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8775491)
I think it will be AC too. Such a weird move for them.

I find it so odd that YXU has/will have flights to YXX, YYC, YWG, YYZ, YOW, YUL, and YHZ but none to YVR. Seems so odd, I guess because WS wants everyone to go thru YYC and AC doesn't really care except for their short Jazz flights. Just funny that they have flights to all of those places and not the 2nd busiest airport in the country

YQB also doesn't have flights to YVR even if Québec city is the 7th largest city in Canada. It also doesn't have flights to YHZ, YEG and only has 4x weekly YYC during 2 months in the summer.

I think that WS should add YQB-YHZ in the summer to offer one stop flights to Europe, which would be much more quickly than going back west to Toronto or Montreal.

Also YQB-YVR in the summer to make easier for Asian visitors to connect to Quebec

And when will Swoop fly to the province of Quebec? They talked about Trois-Rivières but nothing has evolved so far

Dominion301 Dec 14, 2019 3:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samuelx88 (Post 8775733)
YQB also doesn't have flights to YVR even if Québec city is the 7th largest city in Canada. It also doesn't have flights to YHZ, YEG and only has 4x weekly YYC during 2 months in the summer.

I think that WS should add YQB-YHZ in the summer to offer one stop flights to Europe, which would be much more quickly than going back west to Toronto or Montreal.

Also YQB-YVR in the summer to make easier for Asian visitors to connect to Quebec

And when will Swoop fly to the province of Quebec? They talked about Trois-Rivières but nothing has evolved so far

It’ll be a while before Swoop is seen in any market with any meaningfully sized francophone population considering WS doesn’t even want to pay the nominal fee to translate the Swoop website into French.

Dominion301 Dec 14, 2019 4:21 AM

Jetlines trying again on a new path. Now want to do transborder sun flights with tour operators via a new US charter airline based at MIA: https://www.globenewswire.com/news-r...-Airlines.html

Honestly this has a better chance than the last “business plan”, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

whywhyzee Dec 14, 2019 4:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8775690)
I think Encore should work fine out east.

The big question is: Does Onex guide WestJet back to being NA focused carrier (original business plan based on Southwest - one aircraft type - keep it simple), clipping its international (trans ocean) expansion aspirations.

Onex wants to reclaim WS's market Cap, which has been significantly diminished since WS started adding expensive 787s and flying across the Atlantic (and talking Asia in the future).

Or... do they take on the major carriers head on and fund/finance rapid international expansion to Europe and Asia...a quick way to bleed money...?

That ship has long since sailed. Way too much money has been invested already, and internally, all the talk is of growing the international segment. If you look at major Canadian airport stats, that's where all of the growth has been for the past few years, domestic travel is essentially maintaining the status quo, with low single digit growth percentages at best. International from all of the hubs has lead the vast majority of increased passenger numbers and will likely continue to do so. Yes, I recognize that this doesn't necessarily equate to profit, but if you consider that both AC and WS continue to put up record breaking quarters, it certainly would appear that way.

J81 Dec 14, 2019 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8775148)
That’s called 5th freedom traffic rights, not cabotage and that route is ending soon. 5th freedoms are a holdover from yesteryear when nonstops were impossible between two distant points and allowed an airline to pickup traffic along the way in order to make a route viable. Cabotage is domestic flying by a foreign airline. New Zealand and Australia have reciprocal cabotage rights. Most of Europe allows for cabotage among EU carriers.

EK actually just launched a new 5th freedom DXB-BCN-MEX.

Right! Got them mixed up! Thanks!


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