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SkahHigh Aug 25, 2018 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8291525)
^ Why does WestJet have a poor image in Quebec?

I find around here people have an fairly (and often unrealistically) high opinion of WestJet. Some people still view them as the spunky upstart which in my view they ceased being sometime around 1999.

Mostly related to non-respect of language. I'm sure many quebecers have had bad experiences of not having someone serving them in French (or even trying to) aboard WestJet. A little disrespectful considering it's one of our country's two official languages.

I personally haven't flown with them in a while (unrelated to that, I just don't fly out west very often) but WJ has ways to go to rival with AC and TS in Quebec. They're pretty much seen as your typical western canadian anglo corporation.

J81 Aug 25, 2018 6:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8293604)
hmmm, hate to say it but with WJ Regina-Orlando seasonal service such a success, I have a feeling I know where your Moncton-Orlando service got sent to...

https://www.aviationpros.com/press_r...rlando-service

Or any of the other dozen flights or so cut by WJ this week

zahav Aug 26, 2018 10:10 AM

WS is pretty bad when it comes to French. I have been on flights where they have started laughing during announcements in French because they can't do it. I'm English speaking from BC and I found it disrespectful, I can only imagine if I was a Francophone.

The folksy crap they pull bothers me a lot and always has, I have doubts how their international ambitions will go. The problem is they will face so much competition, I have a feeling they will focus on YYC not only since its their main hub and homebase, but people admire them more there than anywhere else, and they have way less competition. YYZ has such an AC and TS mass it's hard

SaskScraper Aug 26, 2018 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8293604)
hmmm, hate to say it but with WJ Regina-Orlando seasonal service such a success, I have a feeling I know where your Moncton-Orlando service got sent to...

https://www.aviationpros.com/press_r...rlando-service


Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 8293715)
Or any of the other dozen flights or so cut by WJ this week

WJ did just increase its daily service from Saskatoon to YYC by 2 flights each day and Regina to YYC by 1 extra flight per day so maybe again just shifting around of their planes.

SignalHillHiker Aug 26, 2018 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8294128)
WS is pretty bad when it comes to French. I have been on flights where they have started laughing during announcements in French because they can't do it. I'm English speaking from BC and I found it disrespectful, I can only imagine if I was a Francophone.

The folksy crap they pull bothers me a lot and always has, I have doubts how their international ambitions will go. The problem is they will face so much competition, I have a feeling they will focus on YYC not only since its their main hub and homebase, but people admire them more there than anywhere else, and they have way less competition. YYZ has such an AC and TS mass it's hard

Nothing is worse than faux folksy, but I don't get that impression from WestJet. They never come across as fake as, say, Trudeau. I hope he wins another majority, but he's irritating to listen to. It's like a Brady Bunch re-run. I don't get that impression from WestJet staff on the whole.

With Air Canada it's almost like... they're stuck with the 1980s impression of everything outside of the Toronto-Montreal corridor, and treat people accordingly. The... snootiness, disdain, rudeness... it's almost a flashback to how Canadians treated us in general until the early 2000s. I think if you have a great impression of Air Canada, try flying from Toronto to St. John's in economy and see if you think your treatment is acceptable. You could have a great experience, of course, but do it a few times and I guarantee you'll be shocked and insulted eventually. And it'll build slowly over time until you just see an Air Canada uniform and want to scream, "What the fuck is your problem!?" :haha:

Blader Aug 26, 2018 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 8291620)
The opinion of them is high here as well. At least once a month there's a Facebook rant from one of my friends about a horrible Air Canada experience, and all of the comments echo the same sentiments except for one single friend who is all about Air Canada (but is the type who takes pride in never seeing Game of Thrones, etc. He's in his early 60s and very old-fashioned - and travels a lot so probably has that AC Gold or whatever it is).

I've had so many negative experiences with Air Canada. Too many to mention. It's mostly just the stuck-up, pompous attitude of everyone involved. Even when the flight attendants are here overnight and downtown, you can always tell which are from Air Canada - they're not smiling, sitting alone. It's like we can just sense they're not good people, whereas the Westjet crew is back at their rooms shagging locals.

^^^
Is this your issue - refusal to shag?

After my flight was delayed in Toronto, I was asked by an Air Canada gate agent if Halifax was close enough, could someone pick me up. I've even seen a couple of "That's not my job, I don't know." responses to questions from the seemingly days-long line-ups waiting to rebook. I mean, in what world is that a thing people say out loud?

There aren't many companies I passionately hate and wish to see fail - Air Canada is one of them. The only one that compares is probably Hydro Quebec. They are and represent the very worst of Canada. I'd rather take RyanAir or British Airways from St. John's to Toronto any day.

Westjet on the other hand is great. The only really significant delay I had with them was flying home for Christmas when I lived on the mainland. We waited at the gate because a flight coming in from BC had Newfoundlanders on it who would not be able to get home in time for Christmas Eve if we left without them.

Air Canada wouldn't have done that. And if they did, they certainly wouldn't have TOLD PEOPLE WHAT THE FUCK WAS GOING ON. :haha: They would have just left us sitting on the plane, staring at us with their blank sour faces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 8294313)
Nothing is worse than faux folksy, but I don't get that impression from WestJet. They never come across as fake as, say, Trudeau. I hope he wins another majority, but he's irritating to listen to. It's like a Brady Bunch re-run. I don't get that impression from WestJet staff on the whole.

With Air Canada it's almost like... they're stuck with the 1980s impression of everything outside of the Toronto-Montreal corridor, and treat people accordingly. The... snootiness, disdain, rudeness... it's almost a flashback to how Canadians treated us in general until the early 2000s. I think if you have a great impression of Air Canada, try flying from Toronto to St. John's in economy and see if you think your treatment is acceptable. You could have a great experience, of course, but do it a few times and I guarantee you'll be shocked and insulted eventually. And it'll build slowly over time until you just see an Air Canada uniform and want to scream, "What the fuck is your problem!?" :haha:

A few years ago you unleashed a similar diatribe. I responded questioning your veracity. IIRC, your defense was "you can't help how you feel".
^^^
Well, you can if you choose!

SignalHillHiker Aug 26, 2018 7:25 PM

I don't agree that it's my responsibility to pretend their service is acceptable. If they want to change my opinion, do better.

And I've had this diatribe basically any time Air Canada comes up for an extended period. :D

MonctonRad Aug 26, 2018 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 8294431)
I don't agree that it's my responsibility to pretend their service is acceptable. If they want to change my opinion, do better.

And I've had this diatribe basically any time Air Canada comes up for an extended period. :D

Outside of four or maybe five major airports in Canada, I think it's perfectly fair to question the quality of service being offered by our airlines (especially AC).

In Moncton, we typically have 18-22 departures daily (on all airlines, depending on the day of the week). On average, six of these departures are between 0510 and 0650 hrs (to allow connections at hub airports).

For the 0510 flight, this means you have to get out of friggin bed at 3AM to get to the airport on time, check your bags and get through security. :hell:

What the frig!!! Would this be acceptable in the centre of the universe (TO)??? I sincerely doubt it. Out here in the colonies though, this sort of torture is to be expected. And then on the flight to TO (or wherever), you have to deal with snooty service from some stewardess who is also sleep deprived and snarky because she doesn't really want to be awake at this God forsaken hour either.

The only airline I don't really have a problem with flying out of Moncton is Porter. Their earliest flight is 0630 (at least a little more humane), they treat you decently and give you free booze.........

ghYHZ Aug 26, 2018 8:05 PM

If there are 6 flight between 510 and 650.....there must be a demand that's being dictated by a passengers schedule (not the airlines) to be somewhere early for say a breakfast meeting in Montreal, Ottawa or Toronto.......and wth the time difference.....you can even be in Vancouver by late morning.

casper Aug 26, 2018 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 8294441)
Outside of four or maybe five major airports in Canada, I think it's perfectly fair to question the quality of service being offered by our airlines (especially AC).

In Moncton, we typically have 18-22 departures daily (on all airlines, depending on the day of the week). On average, six of these departures are between 0510 and 0650 hrs (to allow connections at hub airports).

For the 0510 flight, this means you have to get out of friggin bed at 3AM to get to the airport on time, check your bags and get through security. :hell:

What the frig!!! Would this be acceptable in the centre of the universe (TO)??? I sincerely doubt it. Out here in the colonies though, this sort of torture is to be expected. And then on the flight to TO (or wherever), you have to deal with snooty service from some stewardess who is also sleep deprived and snarky because she doesn't really want to be awake at this God forsaken hour either.

The only airline I don't really have a problem with flying out of Moncton is Porter. Their earliest flight is 0630 (at least a little more humane), they treat you decently and give you free booze.........

I lived in Saskatoon for about 14 years. My perception of Air Canada was that is was fine. The local staff at the airport had a pretty good idea of what they were doing. The staff mostly came from Canadian Airlines with some that were with the pre-merger Air Canada. The competition was NorthWest Airlines (who became part of Delta) and obviously WestJet.

In the early days WestJet was the new kid on the block with limited flights. They tried hardrt but were less polished than Air Canada.

The flights in and out of Saskatoon were timed for hub connections with all of these airlines.

Lots of early morning flights timed to go into Calgary, Toronto and MSP hub banks. There was also a bit of a mini bank out of Winnipeg heading east. There would be a Toronto flight timed to connect with the evening bank of flights to Europe.

There was sufficient traffic in and out of Calgary to support a number of flights through the day.

The flight to Vancouver was timed to meet up with the bank of flights to Asia.

Honestly I think that all you should expect until there is sufficient volume to support additional flights that are not tied to the major banks at the hubs. Over time Saskatoon gained more Toronto flights, some Edmonton flights and many more Calgary flights.

SaskScraper Aug 26, 2018 8:47 PM

Having a hub & spoke system but with some direct flights to most popular destinations is, in my opinion, the most effective way to travel by air for when I'm living in Saskatoon.

There's about one flight per hour with WJ from Saskatchewan to Calgary each day, AC has a similar frequency, so even if your once-a-day... or worse once-a-week flight to southern destination is cancelled, you still have option to jump on next flight to a hub & still arrive at destination in reasonable amount of time that day.

It's happened a few times for me traveling to Phoenix, Vegas & Puerto Vallarta. ..& even California over the years that if my Saskatchewan out-bound flight ever has a delay/cancellation, I can always get next flight to YYC, YEG, or YVR & still get to my destination in reasonable time that afternoon/evening.

Blader Aug 26, 2018 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 8294431)
I don't agree that it's my responsibility to pretend their service is acceptable. If they want to change my opinion, do better.

And I've had this diatribe basically any time Air Canada comes up for an extended period. :D

I have no issue with people who have preferences for one airline over another, and state their reasons.
I do have issues however, when it comes down to the experience of crew frequenting St. John's bars with respect to going to bed with locals. So, West Jet crews are promiscuous and AC are not. Giving the size of each company, that is hard to believe. I think West Jet crews should be insulted by your insinuations.

SignalHillHiker Aug 26, 2018 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 8294554)
I have no issue with people who have preferences for one airline over another, and state their reasons.
I do have issues however, when it comes down to the experience of crew frequenting St. John's bars with respect to going to bed with locals. So, West Jet crews are promiscuous and AC are not. Giving the size of each company, that is hard to believe. I think West Jet crews should be insulted by your insinuations.

I'm not sure most people think that way. They'd probably see it as it was intended - an example of how they aren't uptight and pompous, and don't look down on locals. If it makes them want to clutch their pearls, they should probably go work for Air Canada. ;-)

Blader Aug 26, 2018 11:38 PM

^^^
You've skirted the issue!

casper Aug 27, 2018 1:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 8294576)
I'm not sure most people think that way. They'd probably see it as it was intended - an example of how they aren't uptight and pompous, and don't look down on locals. If it makes them want to clutch their pearls, they should probably go work for Air Canada. ;-)

For WestJet front-line staff they have tended to hire extroverts. They like outgoing, playful people. That defines the culture and the customer experience.

Air Canada's profit come from the business class cabin. It is important to create a business like, professional, (perhaps stuffy) culture. The defines the customer experience.

To quote Trudeau, "There is no place for the state (or skyscrapper) in the bedrooms of the nation..." Realistically air crew on both airlines work long shifts, I suspect they are more interested in sleep than anything else at the end of the day especially in a different time zone.

Blader Aug 27, 2018 1:29 AM

^^^
I'm sorry for you if that's your measure. Availability to sexual predation`. This is what all crews on all airlines hate passionately.

zahav Aug 27, 2018 5:36 AM

I find Air Canada better now than it used to be, especially helped by the retirement of lots of the old guard who were hardened by years of mergers, buyouts, struggling financials, bankruptcy, etc. They were just done with it all but still needed the job.

WS was lucky in that it got to start fresh, no staff hanging on from 40 years before. But now most of the AC new hires are young and still professional, and it's changed the experience of flying with them. There are still some from the old guard but they are retiiring more and more. And the fact that AC has been in good shape for many years now and finally broadening their international footprint more, it's no as gloomy and awful to fly with than it was in the early 2000s.

Hali87 Aug 27, 2018 7:05 AM

As someone who flies on average once a year (always Economy), I've never really noticed a major difference. Westjet staff tend to make a joke or two, Air Canada seems one degree more formal, that's about it. AC does have seatback entertainment but as others have mentioned it doesn't work/has no sound half the time. I tend to board as late as I can (rather than wanting priority), and don't really expect anything from the flight attendants other than the complimentary drinks and food that everyone gets. For example I'm not the type to ask for an "extra" free drink if it's not offered, and consequently I've never been told no. I normally just bring my own food on the plane if it's a long flight, and use my laptop or sleep. I've never had any kind of status and business class doesn't seem worth it to me at all (and has never really been an option anyway).

LO 044 Aug 27, 2018 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8294869)
I find Air Canada better now than it used to be, especially helped by the retirement of lots of the old guard who were hardened by years of mergers, buyouts, struggling financials, bankruptcy, etc. They were just done with it all but still needed the job.

WS was lucky in that it got to start fresh, no staff hanging on from 40 years before. But now most of the AC new hires are young and still professional, and it's changed the experience of flying with them. There are still some from the old guard but they are retiiring more and more. And the fact that AC has been in good shape for many years now and finally broadening their international footprint more, it's no as gloomy and awful to fly with than it was in the early 2000s.

It is interesting to see people's opinions from across the country so i'll add my two cents. I agree with zahav. I believe a lot of the perception of WS and AC crew comes based on their age. I think AC's service is fine and much better when you have a younger flight crew, in general but not always.

For me personally, the "tell a joke" flight crews on WestJet irritate me as well. You don't need to tell a joke to be courteous and say something with a smile. I have really noticed this type of good service on AC lately but moreso in the younger crews for lack of a better description of the flight crew. Whenever i have bad service on WestJet i think of "they aren't professional enough" and whenever i have bad service on AC i think of "old and bitter union member" but i wouldn't stop flying one or the other mainly because beggars can't be choosers when flying out of YEG. Pick the best flight on whomever and support non-stop routes assuming pricing is close.

I took Air Transat last year for the first time and the experience was not good. And many people shared my experience on the plane. The TS staff looked annoyed and basically didn't really want to talk to anyone. Let's just say the gap between east and west was widened after that flight. I too felt that the English by the crew was poor on the flight and i could totally understand how people from Quebec would react to WestJet. I remember flying WestJet a long time ago to Montreal i think and the crew gave instructions in English and it was a recording in French. I really thought that it was unprofessional and their foray into Quebec would be DOA based on this alone. I don't know do they even do that still or have they actually hired one flight attendant that can at least speak French? I have flown to Europe many times on AC and i can think of many times how they had flight crews who could speak German, Italian and Arabic. I don't always agree with this type of service as someone always gets left out but i believe this type of plus stands out to people.

esquire Aug 27, 2018 2:04 PM

^ I agree about the WS recorded safety announcements in French.

It's funny how VIA Rail goes to the other extreme, making sure that even trains in remote northern Manitoba are staffed by fully bilingual attendants even though you'd probably spot a leprechaun on the train before bumping into a unilingual French speaker. Meanwhile, WestJet can't seem to put at least one French-speaker on mainline flights between major Canadian cities.


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