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bmfarley Dec 19, 2010 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychotron (Post 5095530)
More public transportation and bike lanes are very encouraging. :tup: The end of the document lists all the projects involved in the 2050 plan. Notables include:

High Speed Rail (HSR) Intercity - Temecula to Lindbergh Field ITC (Intermodal Transit Center)
does this mean the HSR alignment has already been decided?

Sprinter - Branch extensions to North County Fair

Trolley - Downtown tunnel between Park/Island and Ash

Trolley - Pacific Beach to El Cajon via Kearny Mesa, Mission Valley, SDSU

Trolley - UTC to Mira Mesa via Sorrento Mesa/Carroll Cyn

Streetcar - Hillcrest/Balboa Park/Downtown Loop

Streetcar - 30th St to Downtown via North Park/Golden Hill

Streetcar - Downtown: Little Italy to East Village

Although welcome, this is BS. The report identifies $1.3 ish billion for transit improvements. That is definately not enough. The downtown underground alignment alone would consume all of that... about $500-$600 million per mile! Also, there appears to be a slight of hand at work... One or two or more of the four "LRT" lines, is really BRT.

Where are the maps?

Additionally, 1) HSR to Lindbergh vs. to Downtown, and 2) No commuter overlay (= additional stations and operating funds) is very short-sighted. It is akin to an osterich sticking their head in the sand and ignoring the addictions brought my auto's and implications for a vibrant and prosperous downtown.

HurricaneHugo Dec 19, 2010 4:26 AM

HSR to Lindbergh is even dumber than Qualcomm.

kpexpress Dec 19, 2010 10:18 AM

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2718.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2721.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2723.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2724.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2725.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2727.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2730.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2732.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...2/IMG_2733.jpg

bmfarley Dec 19, 2010 3:13 PM

As I felt before, this is a dumb place to put a cruise ship terminal. The Pier at the end of Broadway should be open for complete public use. A park.

A better place for a cruise ship terminal would have been opposite the County Admin Bldg.... whihc is a place surrounded by a celebration of "the car".

bmfarley Dec 19, 2010 5:01 PM

Here's my concept for a Downtown Underground Alignment for the Trolley. It would only be for the Blue & Orange lines; the Green Line and Mid-Coast Line would come down from Old Town and continue along the Bay side to 12th/Imperial.

For the tunnel, beginning at 12th/Imperial, each line would arrive at the station on different platforms before coming together for the trunk segment. Southbound does not matter, except to avoid conflicting moves.

Afterwards, each proceeds north in a new alignment across Tailgate Park toward K & 14th street. And, then begin a slight downward grade. Combined with the natural grade/terrain, the alignment could easily reach sufficient depth to be underground before K Street. A 12th Street/Park or 13th Street alignment is not desirable (more on why later).

Once underground, it would proceed up 14th Street to E Street. At E Street, it would begin a 90-degree curve to line-up with Broadway. Once along Broadway, it would continue west and end adjacent to Santa Fe Depot at a terminal station where all Blue and Orange Line trains would end. No entry from the North or along the Bay side would be provided. The existing at-grade alignment would remain for Green Line service and the proposed street-car service. The Mid-Coast project would do the same as the Green Line... Bay side to 12th/Imperial.

Subway stations could be at:
- 14th/Market
- Broadway/12th
- Broadway/5th
- Broadway/Kettner

The benefits of a tunnel are substantial to downtown. They include, 1) quicker trains into the core of downtown, 2) a doubling of capacity (12 TPH today vs. up to 24 TPH), and 3) reducing train frequency at street-level crossings at numerous streets and intersections - only a streetcar would remain.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1...asetunnel3.jpg

A North-South alignment on 12th is not desirable for constructability reasons; the Trolley is already there. On 13th Street, I believe a large box culvert is there that provides stormwater runoff from Balboa Park. There might also be remanants of a fault line that runs generally north-south (running parrallel within 100 feet is not advisable, but crossing perpendicularly is constructable and done elsewhere).

Los Angeles and San Francisco are each moving forward on new subway alignments. More information on those can be found at:

Los Angeles Regional Connector: http://www.metro.net/projects/connector/
San Francisco Central Subway: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mcsp/cspover.htm

I suppose after San Diego, Sacramento would be next???

mello Dec 19, 2010 8:44 PM

I wanted to see if you guys think that downtown needs something like the Disney Concert Hall in LA. This decade both that facility and the Nokia theatre opened. The Nokia theatre has quite a large capacity as well. I know that the Balboa theatre is open, has anyone been in there, is it nice? Just wanted to get your thoughts on if SD should step up and build another entertainment/concert facility downtown.

Lipani Dec 19, 2010 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 5098723)
I suppose after San Diego, Sacramento would be next???

Due to the levees it's doubtful a subway system would ever happen in Sac. As a Sacramento native I don't think the density is there right now or in the foreseeable future. For several years they've been trying to follow the Portland model; mostly without success, as major projects stalled at the beginning of the financial crisis. Plus Nimbys in East Sac and Curtis Park would sue to stop anything costing more than $20.

HurricaneHugo Dec 20, 2010 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5098853)
I wanted to see if you guys think that downtown needs something like the Disney Concert Hall in LA. This decade both that facility and the Nokia theatre opened. The Nokia theatre has quite a large capacity as well. I know that the Balboa theatre is open, has anyone been in there, is it nice? Just wanted to get your thoughts on if SD should step up and build another entertainment/concert facility downtown.

I want a new stadium and a new sports arena before that lol.

The arena can double as a concert facility lol

mello Dec 20, 2010 1:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 5099006)
I want a new stadium and a new sports arena before that lol.

The arena can double as a concert facility lol

I was thinking that as well. SD really does not have a quality large scale concert facility. Is Cox Arena nice for that? I'm surprised Qualcomm hasn't stepped up and tried to work with other investors to bring a state of the art arena to the San Diego area.

HurricaneHugo Dec 20, 2010 3:07 AM

Or hell just make the new Chargers stadium with a tent-like retractable roof AND movable seating so it can double as an arena.

Too innovative for this city I know.

kpexpress Dec 20, 2010 5:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 5099038)
I was thinking that as well. SD really does not have a quality large scale concert facility. Is Cox Arena nice for that? I'm surprised Qualcomm hasn't stepped up and tried to work with other investors to bring a state of the art arena to the San Diego area.

Surprisingly downtown SD has a strong theater area. Although no one's heard of anyone calling anything a 'theater district' in Downtown. Balboa, Lyceum, Civic, Spreckels, and Symphony Tower Theater.

Balboa is quite nice, a bit small, but nice. I think Civic is the largest. Full disclosure - I've only been in a few of them.

kpexpress Dec 20, 2010 6:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 5098723)
Here's my concept for a Downtown Underground Alignment for the Trolley. It would only be for the Blue & Orange lines; the Green Line and Mid-Coast Line would come down from Old Town and continue along the Bay side to 12th/Imperial.

For the tunnel, beginning at 12th/Imperial, each line would arrive at the station on different platforms before coming together for the trunk segment. Southbound does not matter, except to avoid conflicting moves.

Afterwards, each proceeds north in a new alignment across Tailgate Park toward K & 14th street. And, then begin a slight downward grade. Combined with the natural grade/terrain, the alignment could easily reach sufficient depth to be underground before K Street. A 12th Street/Park or 13th Street alignment is not desirable (more on why later).

Once underground, it would proceed up 14th Street to E Street. At E Street, it would begin a 90-degree curve to line-up with Broadway. Once along Broadway, it would continue west and end adjacent to Santa Fe Depot at a terminal station where all Blue and Orange Line trains would end. No entry from the North or along the Bay side would be provided. The existing at-grade alignment would remain for Green Line service and the proposed street-car service. The Mid-Coast project would do the same as the Green Line... Bay side to 12th/Imperial.

Subway stations could be at:
- 14th/Market
- Broadway/12th
- Broadway/5th
- Broadway/Kettner

The benefits of a tunnel are substantial to downtown. They include, 1) quicker trains into the core of downtown, 2) a doubling of capacity (12 TPH today vs. up to 24 TPH), and 3) reducing train frequency at street-level crossings at numerous streets and intersections - only a streetcar would remain.

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1...asetunnel3.jpg

A North-South alignment on 12th is not desirable for constructability reasons; the Trolley is already there. On 13th Street, I believe a large box culvert is there that provides stormwater runoff from Balboa Park. There might also be remanants of a fault line that runs generally north-south (running parrallel within 100 feet is not advisable, but crossing perpendicularly is constructable and done elsewhere).

Los Angeles and San Francisco are each moving forward on new subway alignments. More information on those can be found at:

Los Angeles Regional Connector: http://www.metro.net/projects/connector/
San Francisco Central Subway: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mcsp/cspover.htm

I suppose after San Diego, Sacramento would be next???

Few things:
1) I like the idea of burying transit downtown, but if you burry anything it should be the Orange line along the waterfront and throw in the heavy rail (santa fe) in there too to allow little to few obstructions between residents and the bay front (let's not talk about the convention center - another discussion I guess).

2) Not sure if you can have the line cross tailgate park cause of the larger fault line that runs through that block - that's why it's a parking lot now and not built out, or planned to be built out.

3) I would rather see a double loop system downtown and not a singular running down Broadway serving both North and South sides of B street (being the heavy commercial density and the heavy concentration of state bldgs along font street.)

kpexpress Dec 20, 2010 7:02 AM

incorporating the line that circles Balboa Park into a central station type place (built into horton plaza...perhaps in the soon-to-be-approved urban plaza)

Curious on peeps thought's on this diagram. Would be cool to further a series of these diagrams and see how well we can get this thing.

Input please.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...at104622PM.jpg

HurricaneHugo Dec 20, 2010 9:05 AM

Needs a line going up Park Blvd to da Zoo

kpexpress Dec 21, 2010 4:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 5099384)
Needs a line going up Park Blvd to da Zoo

Like fairly said the park blvd rails should remain intact and expanded up park into the park and zoo and onto university and north. It could be an at grade trolley system. I'll throw it in the diagram and expand

bmfarley Dec 21, 2010 5:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 5099325)
incorporating the line that circles Balboa Park into a central station type place (built into horton plaza...perhaps in the soon-to-be-approved urban plaza)

Curious on peeps thought's on this diagram. Would be cool to further a series of these diagrams and see how well we can get this thing.

Input please.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...at104622PM.jpg

Both the Blue and Orange Lines need to penetrate the core; that is where people are destined. Forcing a transfer is NOT good service.

Concerning the Bay side alignment being placed below grade... there needs to be a very good argument - ones supported by policy and performance measures - to successufully argue that public funding should be used to create the grade separations. At least, transit funding. It is also challenging to do something like that when an existing line is already operating above. Same with frieght.

That said, CCDC did a study 10-15 years ago concerning the cost of putting the freight stuff below grade. I believe two options were considered, each costing in excessive of $100 million. Costs have certainly increased since then.

Btw, how much is the new library going to cost?

kpexpress Dec 21, 2010 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 5100376)
Both the Blue and Orange Lines need to penetrate the core; that is where people are destined. Forcing a transfer is NOT good service.

Concerning the Bay side alignment being placed below grade... there needs to be a very good argument - ones supported by policy and performance measures - to successufully argue that public funding should be used to create the grade separations. At least, transit funding. It is also challenging to do something like that when an existing line is already operating above. Same with frieght.

That said, CCDC did a study 10-15 years ago concerning the cost of putting the freight stuff below grade. I believe two options were considered, each costing in excessive of $100 million. Costs have certainly increased since then.

If the purple line existed, I would ride it everyday! Oh and the Red dashed line running up Pershing would be a rapid bus link option.

Btw, how much is the new library going to cost?

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...at103100PM.jpg

I think when one looks at the transit system as of now, its easy to see that most all the riders on the Orange and Blue Lines are people coming in from the suburbs into downtown.

I've lived in the East Village for more than 5 years now (all within four blocks) and I rarely (sadly) take the trolley. It's designed to cater to people coming into the city from the suburbs.

Its not really designed for someone already in the downtown area to use it, unless you want to head to an area outside of downtown. You would need to walk of the central part of the city (say the gaslamp or something) to get to a stop then ride the trolley to the opposite (another edge) get off then walk back into the central part of downtown to where you wanted to go. It's easier and quicker to just walk.

I think the purple line (and transfers) would cater mostly to people who already live downtown. And when you look at it from a broader angle (see purple line) people living in the Mid City areas (North Park, South Park, Golden Hill, Hillcrest, Bankers Hill, and MIssion HIlls) who don't have rail service would benefit greatly from having a direct connection to the heart of downtown and not to an edge of downtown. People in downtown want a direct connection to these neighborhoods as well. Welcome Purple line...

Oh and the Red dashed line running up Pershing would be an optional bus rapid.

Lipani Dec 21, 2010 9:10 PM

Here's more on the 2050 Regional Transportation Plan.

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3294/2050mapzoom.gif
http://www.sdmts.com/marketing/regionaltransitplan2050.asp

Looks like there's a lot to love. If I had one complaint, it's that this looks more like a 2030 plan rather than a 2050 plan. Many of these ideas should've been done years ago.

On a side note: Doing anything in Sorrento Valley/Mira Mesa would be great. I usually take the Coaster from downtown to work. On these rare, rainy days I'll drive as a matter of convenience. Raining or not, this area is a nightmare during commuting hours. You could add another on-ramp, but then people will just get stuck on the 805 a little earlier (maybe). :haha:

HurricaneHugo Dec 21, 2010 10:57 PM

Seriously what's up with this rain? :(

Derek Dec 22, 2010 2:52 AM

I LOVE this rain! :D


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