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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

WhipperSnapper Dec 18, 2014 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 6848797)
You guys are living in bubble if you think that price is reasonable for regular Torontonians. This is supposed to be for everyone, not just people in our tax bracket and above.

It's not just uber rich that are out of touch with regular people, single young professionals seem completely blind to how most people live. $27 might be fine for you and I, but I guarantee you that for most people it's not affordable. You realize that for the average person in this city going to a museum, zoo, aquarium, sports event, or the Ex is a luxury they can only do once in a while? I bet you don't think twice about it.

And btw, $27 from Heathrow to Oslo is a steal not from Pearson to Union. My roomate in London paid less than that (£14 to be precise) a decade ago. I bet you can still do it for around $30 today.

It is a reasonable charge for an express service to the airport. People are more than aware of the high costs of air travel in Canada and the heavily subsidized services available in Europe. Let's not forget it costs $10 to take the London Metro.

1overcosc Dec 18, 2014 8:55 PM

If you can afford the hundreds or thousands of dollars it costs to fly, you can afford $19 to take the UPX.

TorontoDrew Dec 18, 2014 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 6849487)
If you can afford the hundreds or thousands of dollars it costs to fly, you can afford $19 to take the UPX.

If you are traveling from the core to the airport, and are flying chances are you do belong to the same tax bracket as the majority of people using the service. This service is really just to connect the core not the entire GTA with a cheap alternative. One of the benefits of living in the core, for the space you give up and the higher cost of living you also get more access to more amenities. Sorry Scarborough, North York, Etobicoke and East York.

Denscity Dec 18, 2014 10:10 PM

YVR Vancouver is expected to have 1.6 Million passengers come through the airport this December making it the busiest December on record. :tup:

TorontoDrew Dec 18, 2014 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 6849600)
YVR Vancouver is expected to have 1.6 Million passengers come through the airport this December making it the busiest December on record. :tup:

I arrive Tuesday :cheers: , it's ridiculous how much my flight from YYZ to YVR was.....$650! Im taking the train to Portland in 3 weeks and will be flying back from there at a cost of $231.

halifaxboyns Dec 18, 2014 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 6849605)
I arrive Tuesday :cheers: , it's ridiculous how much my flight from YYZ to YVR was.....$650! Im taking the train to Portland in 3 weeks and will be flying back from there at a cost of $231.

That's nothing - AC YYC to YHZ one way for Christmas cost me $800+ with taxes. I've come to expect it each year, so I'm not surprised. And that was buying back in late September.

Denscity Dec 18, 2014 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 6849605)
I arrive Tuesday :cheers: , it's ridiculous how much my flight from YYZ to YVR was.....$650! Im taking the train to Portland in 3 weeks and will be flying back from there at a cost of $231.

Ya its almost criminal the domestic airfare pricing in this country. Especially the busiest east west route we have.
And wow $231 is cheap!
Enjoy Vancouver!

TorontoDrew Dec 18, 2014 11:13 PM

Next year I'll spend a few days in Chicago and fly from Chicago to Seattle. It's more of an inconvenience but it's my little F-U to how shitty our airfare is in Canada.

SignalHillHiker Dec 23, 2014 8:22 PM

YYT is trying to market itself with the sentiment of locals. We generally still clap when planes land here.

Video Link

SkydivePilot Dec 26, 2014 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew (Post 6848667)
Flying culverts!

I have flown on Perimeter on numerous occasions. Usually pretty non-eventful, but trying to land in whiteout conditions is a bit hairy.

The best regional airline in MB is Calm Air, hands down. Although they only serve larger communities.

Calm Air flies pretty well everywhere --- even small communities/reserves. (Even with ATR-72s.) :)

losername Dec 27, 2014 1:54 PM

WRT the UPX:

As much as they would like to call this express service it is not, there are two stops on this route that is only 20km in distance. This is very much like Heathrow Connect, and that service is half the price, in city that is know to be much more expensive than Toronto for pretty much everything.

It is also worth comparing this line to Vancouvers Canada line as both lines get you downtown in approx the same amount of time which is what ultimately counts, though one of them only costs 7$.

TorontoDrew Dec 27, 2014 3:23 PM

Yes but unlike the Canada line the UPX is solely for air travellers. It's annoying having to navigate crowds with all of your luggage. As cool as the Canada line is the trains weren't really designed for travellers with luggage. Next time I'll just book a ticket on a seaplane for $98 and avoid the crowds which will make the UPX even more reasonable to me.

As for saying it's not express with two stops en-route for a 23.3km trip is a bit of a joke.

Denscity Dec 27, 2014 5:01 PM

Parts of the canada line trains have no seating and are used for luggage and bike storage.
And ya canada line sure is popular isn't it?

MalcolmTucker Dec 27, 2014 7:03 PM

The airport in Vancouver also put in a $300 million capital subsidy for the Canada Line. Every airport user pays for it in the airport improvement fee. Toronto's line on the other hand is to pay off much of its capital costs with fare revenue, and pay a fee per passenger.

In any case, as someone who used to take cabs or the airport express bus 8 times or so a year, I will be very happy when this finally opens.

losername Dec 27, 2014 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 6857154)
Yes but unlike the Canada line the UPX is solely for air travellers. It's annoying having to navigate crowds with all of your luggage. As cool as the Canada line is the trains weren't really designed for travellers with luggage. Next time I'll just book a ticket on a seaplane for $98 and avoid the crowds which will make the UPX even more reasonable to me.

As for saying it's not express with two stops en-route for a 23.3km trip is a bit of a joke.

They both take the same amount of time which is what counts in the end, and I've taken the canada line many times no problems " navigating the crowds". Have always had room for my bags.

hipster duck Dec 27, 2014 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losername (Post 6857378)
They both take the same amount of time which is what counts in the end, and I've taken the canada line many times no problems " navigating the crowds". Have always had room for my bags.

What counts is the time of the trip relative to the other options available to the traveler, not to how long it takes in Vancouver.

If it takes an hour to go to downtown Toronto in a $50 cab at rush hour, then a 20 minute train ride that costs $19 is a bargain.

TorontoDrew Dec 28, 2014 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by losername (Post 6857378)
They both take the same amount of time which is what counts in the end, and I've taken the canada line many times no problems " navigating the crowds". Have always had room for my bags.

Well I was on it 5 days ago and didn't share your experience.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 1:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 6857380)
What counts is the time of the trip relative to the other options available to the traveler, not to how long it takes in Vancouver.

If it takes an hour to go to downtown Toronto in a $50 cab at rush hour, then a 20 minute train ride that costs $19 is a bargain.

The problem is that once they reach Union, a good proportion of business travellers will have to hop on a cab to reach their final destination, adding maybe an extra $10-$15 on average? The train ride doesn't seem so competitive once you factor in the cost and the time it takes to transfer to a cab.

caltrane74 Dec 28, 2014 1:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 6857459)
The problem is that once they reach Union, a good proportion of business travellers will have to hop on a cab to reach their final destination, adding maybe an extra $10-$15 on average? The train ride doesn't seem so competitive once you factor in the cost and the time it takes to transfer to a cab.

Subway and Streetcars are only 3 bux. Don't need to take a cab anywhere if Union was your final destination by choice. Otherwise you can get off on the Bloor Stop.

SFUVancouver Dec 28, 2014 2:16 AM

The Hong Kong Airport Express also makes stops and costs about the same as the UPX, so there's precedent for a (mostly) express airport train at that price point.

As for the Canada Line, they designed the interior layout of the cars to allow for baggage, and the generous seat spacing easily allows for one to roll a suitcase on the floor between the seat and the seatback in front and put carry-on on the seat. There's also ample aisle space, certainly enough to have a bag beside oneself when seated without impeding people's ability to walk, and there are very large open areas around the central pair of doors and through the accordion joint. But by no stretch of the imagination is it an express train. It's a regular metro with the airport as the terminus station for one of the line's branches. Plus the SkyTrain Canada Line fare, which includes a $5 'add fare' when one purchases at the airport, gets one access to the entire transit system for up to 90 minutes, so transfers to local buses and other SkyTrain lines potentially incur no additional costs, depending on whether one originally purchased a 1, 2, or 3 zone fare.

Within a year of opening (with atrocious airport signage at the time of inauguration) the line was moving about a sixth (15%) of travellers to and from the airport and a not-insignificant (and never quite quantified) proportion of staff. It's a bit tricky to be precise, and there haven't been any updated numbers of which I am aware, since the airport also relocated its staff parking to a series of lots at one of the stations on Sea Island. One can ride free between stations on Sea Island, so it functions as a people mover for staff to and from the terminal and freed up valuable space closer to the terminal for pay parking and future terminal expansion. The airport fee that is added onto one's transit fare only applies when leaving the terminal, so one can pay up to $8.75, but return for as little as $2.75, even less if they're a senior or kid.

Reducing and relocating their parking requirements was a very big part of why the Airport signed on and put serious money into the Canada Line. They also wanted to make sure that the line did not interfere with the long-term airport Master Plan, which includes an eastern taxiway over the road and rail corridor to connect the airport's two primary runways. Plus they are planning non-aeronautical revenue generators around the stations, including the under-construction MacArthurGlen Designer Premium Outlet mall. The airport already makes in the ~60% range of its budget from non-aeronautical revenue and their goal is 70%+, so leveraging the Canada Line for additional retail, education, institutional, and office development is a big deal.

In Metro Vancouver, where 90%+ of all new non-downtown office construction is within 500m of SkyTrain Station, there's now a massive cliff (like 25%+) for non-downtown commercial office lease rates if you build office outside of that magic 500m radius. This also means there is a significant premium to be realized if you can create product in such a radius, especially relatively close to the downtown core like a Sea Island station location. The Airport proximity adds a bit too for users without a lot of choice in new product near the airport.

If travelling with the hoi polli is a touch too much - as it often is with baggage for anything other than a quick trip - then an express train with luggage space or a taxi is undoubtedly a favourable option.


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