SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

LO 044 Dec 30, 2020 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9145514)
I think it should be "evidence of vaccination or the PRT test" with the 14 only being required if you don't have the vaccination.

The vague announcement makes sense. They are basically launching a trial balloon to see how the industry and public react. In two or three days they will announce the details once they digest all the feedback. In the article the conservatives have already responded negatively, however they are the opposition its their job to find problems with the government position.

As for Canadians entering Canada. They can't stop that, so if a Canadian shows up at a point of entry with COVID the government has to let them in. That would leave marine, rail and land boarders available.

They can however define safety rules on who is allowed to board a flight into Canada.

I think it is a positive for the airlines. They need to rebuild confidence in domestic travel so Canadians are willing to travel in side the country. This is a step in that direction.

I don't see this as a big issue. Unfortunately Trudeau did this 8 months too late.

In any case, the airline required a valid passport or visa to board the flight. Now it will be one of those two items plus a negative test. It should have been like this months ago.

Timing is everything and I really wonder how nicely this was instituted by the Liberals after that member of parliament from Doug Ford's conservative party took his flight lol. Yeah the guy is an idiot but so is every other Canadian traveling for the same reason. I don't see the news cameras at YVR or YYC asking Canadians returning from Cancun as to why they went in the first place. There must be tons of business going on in CUN, FLL, MCO and PVR these days.

I don't understand your point about the other entry points. Can a border agent not deny them entry after this federally instituted law is in place? Is it not law that you need a passport or visa to enter this country and a border guard will deny entry and send you back on the next flight if you don't have either of those documents? I guess the Visa would be more of an issue. I can understand the passport. But i look at "proof of a negative test" more important. You can say you lost your passport but you can't say i lost my Covid test.

hollywoodcory Dec 30, 2020 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9145543)

I don't understand your point about the other entry points. Can a border agent not deny them entry after this federally instituted law is in place? Is it not law that you need a passport or visa to enter this country and a border guard will deny entry and send you back on the next flight if you don't have either of those documents? I guess the Visa would be more of an issue. I can understand the passport. But i look at "proof of a negative test" more important. You can say you lost your passport but you can't say i lost my Covid test.

CBSA cannot legally deny a Canadian citizen from entering if they’ve arrived at a border entry point. Even without a passport. They have alternative ways to eventually prove your citizenship. Usually this rarely happens by plane as it’s also required to have a passport to simply board a plane and most wouldn’t travel without anyways.

Sounds like this will simply be a requirement to board a flight to Canada. In the US this won’t be too big an issue as there’s alternative ways to return to Canada. But if your on a Caribbean island or in Europe, then you don’t really have much choice.

AC and WS will probably be fine, but this certainly hurts Transat and Sunwing more as they don’t have much of a domestic network to fall back on.

casper Dec 30, 2020 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9145543)

I don't understand your point about the other entry points. Can a border agent not deny them entry after this federally instituted law is in place? Is it not law that you need a passport or visa to enter this country and a border guard will deny entry and send you back on the next flight if you don't have either of those documents? I guess the Visa would be more of an issue. I can understand the passport. But i look at "proof of a negative test" more important. You can say you lost your passport but you can't say i lost my Covid test.

Right of return is a fundamental principle to how the world works and international travel.

In Canada it is in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom.

The Government of Canada can force you into quarantine once you enter Canada but if your a citizen or permanent resident it cant stop you from entering.

whatnext Dec 31, 2020 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9145612)
Right of return is a fundamental principle to how the world works and international travel.

In Canada it is in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom.

The Government of Canada can force you into quarantine once you enter Canada but if your a citizen or permanent resident it cant stop you from entering.

Canada may have to let it’s citizens in but airlines are not required to transport people with Covid.

casper Dec 31, 2020 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9145645)
Canada may have to let it’s citizens in but airlines are not required to transport people with Covid.

Exactly.

The government is suggesting changing the rules on who is allowed on an aircraft. Which is different from who is allowed into the country. The two do not have to be the same.

Dominion301 Dec 31, 2020 7:40 PM

Here's the formal announcement today about the COVID test requirement prior to returning to Canada: https://globalnews.ca/news/7547089/c...update-dec-30/

I wonder how hard (impossible?) it'll be to get tested in places like Cuba, CUN, PUJ, etc. before coming back? You'd have to think Sunwing, TS, etc., will ensure that 2-3 days prior to return will start administering their own tests. Otherwise, the small amount (relative to 'normal' times) of sun flying existing & additional planned in winter 2021 will quickly evaporate.

EDIT: Looks like the evaporation is already happening. I just did a search for WG's YOW depatures that were planned to start delayed in February 2021. They're now all gone with nothing showing for sale until 06NOV21. While places like YWG and YQB still have sun flights showing as starting in February, I bet those will be gone too in rather short order.

casper Jan 1, 2021 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9146149)
Here's the formal announcement today about the COVID test requirement prior to returning to Canada: https://globalnews.ca/news/7547089/c...update-dec-30/

I wonder how hard (impossible?) it'll be to get tested in places like Cuba, CUN, PUJ, etc. before coming back? You'd have to think Sunwing, TS, etc., will ensure that 2-3 days prior to return will start administering their own tests. Otherwise, the small amount (relative to 'normal' times) of sun flying existing & additional planned in winter 2021 will quickly evaporate.

EDIT: Looks like the evaporation is already happening. I just did a search for WG's YOW depatures that were planned to start delayed in February 2021. They're now all gone with nothing showing for sale until 06NOV21. While places like YWG and YQB still have sun flights showing as starting in February, I bet those will be gone too in rather short order.

Cuba has a well developed and strong medical system. They may not have the latest technology but they know there stuff.

Mexico is harder to nail down. Mexico also has a well developed and sophisticated medical system. The Oxford Vaccine for countries in Latin America will be manufactured in Mexico. What not as clear is how well the infrastructure is to get the samples from beach resource into a major city.

Biggest issue is a tourist is not going to go where to go and what to ask for. For the all inclusive crowd a COVID test will likely become included in the all inclusive.

whatnext Jan 1, 2021 1:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9146149)
Here's the formal announcement today about the COVID test requirement prior to returning to Canada: https://globalnews.ca/news/7547089/c...update-dec-30/

I wonder how hard (impossible?) it'll be to get tested in places like Cuba, CUN, PUJ, etc. before coming back? You'd have to think Sunwing, TS, etc., will ensure that 2-3 days prior to return will start administering their own tests. Otherwise, the small amount (relative to 'normal' times) of sun flying existing & additional planned in winter 2021 will quickly evaporate.

EDIT: Looks like the evaporation is already happening. I just did a search for WG's YOW depatures that were planned to start delayed in February 2021. They're now all gone with nothing showing for sale until 06NOV21. While places like YWG and YQB still have sun flights showing as starting in February, I bet those will be gone too in rather short order.

Probably why they made it effective January 7. Which is kind of like shutting the barn door after the infected horses have come back from Xmas vacay.:hell:

casper Jan 1, 2021 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9146431)
Probably why they made it effective January 7. Which is kind of like shutting the barn door after the infected horses have come back from Xmas vacay.:hell:

Depends on what the catalyst is for this policy change.

My guess is the new strain in the UK and South Africa spooked the government. All of their actions to date has been focused on lockdowns only when needed to not overflow the ICU in hospitals.

I think the ability for a mutated COVID virus to come into the country from outside that throws all the modeling and effectiveness of the current controls planning out the window over night is what is driving this.

hollywoodcory Jan 1, 2021 3:06 AM

Sounds like if no PCR test is available in the country a traveler is departing, they can travel back but will be required to quarantine in a government approved location until they can be tested?

Also will they be releasing a list of accepted labs (similar to what Hawaii does), or will this be left to the airlines to make the judgement if XYZ lab is legit enough.

Curious if maybe the airlines will simply add this test as part of their packages now.

Also despite this announcement yesterday, many of the southbound flights still went out fairly full today so seems like people are willingly to fork over the extra $$$ to go on vacation.

Dominion301 Jan 1, 2021 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9146456)
Depends on what the catalyst is for this policy change.

My guess is the new strain in the UK and South Africa spooked the government. All of their actions to date has been focused on lockdowns only when needed to not overflow the ICU in hospitals.

I think the ability for a mutated COVID virus to come into the country from outside that throws all the modeling and effectiveness of the current controls planning out the window over night is what is driving this.

True and especially true with Ontario now surpassing 3,000 daily cases.

kwoldtimer Jan 1, 2021 4:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9146469)
Sounds like if no PCR test is available in the country a traveler is departing, they can travel back but will be required to quarantine in a government approved location until they can be tested?

.....

Source? The announcement put out by Transport Canada doesn’t seem to contemplate any exceptions.

hollywoodcory Jan 1, 2021 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 9146489)
Source? The announcement put out by Transport Canada doesn’t seem to contemplate any exceptions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gar...line-1.5858379

This is what Transport Minister Garneau says:

Quote:

"One is, if they haven't got the test result and there are clinics available, they will have to reschedule their departure because they won't be allowed on board," he said. "If, on the other hand, they can demonstrate ... that there was no facility, then they can be admitted onboard."

Travellers who can prove that they were unable to get a test abroad will have to quarantine for 14 days at a federally-approved facility upon their arrival.
Also the article hints that the government hasn't properly communicated this to the airlines leaving them scrambling. This kind of shows how quick they decided to implement this.

Quote:

"We do not know what will be deemed to be properly certified testing labs to provide results. We do not know the acceptable format for passengers to provide the information and be in compliance with the government policy. We do not have regulation and we do not have guidance material at all"
Additionally, this will likely further damage the relationship between the government and airlines which is already strained.

Quote:

"The Liberals' new bright idea is to have international airline workers with no ties to Canada act as COVID-19 screening agents," read a media statement from Conservative critics Michelle Rempel Garner, Stephanie Kusie and Pierre-Paul Hus.

"What constitutes a PCR test? How is that being certified? Are Canadian airline workers supposed to become border service agents?"
I'm all for testing, but this whole thing seems reactionary and rushed solely to gain brownie points with the public. Also someone getting a test 72 hours before their departure doesn't mean they won't bring COVID with them. They can still catch it after they've gotten their tests done.

They could expand the testing on arrival pilot they have at YYC to other airports, which seems to be going well.

thenoflyzone Jan 1, 2021 5:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9146505)



I'm all for testing, but this whole thing seems reactionary and rushed solely to gain brownie points with the public.

Ding ding ding.......:yeahthat:

What's the word I used last week... Posturing...!

YYCguys Jan 1, 2021 1:14 PM

Lots of questions, not many answers (at least not very well thought out ones), lots of confusion. Typical government...ugh! 🥺😖😠

thenoflyzone Jan 2, 2021 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9146602)
Typical government...ugh!

Speaking of this goverment.

On the one hand, they're telling you don't travel, but on the other, if you come back form abroad, they will pay you 1000$ in you have to quarantine and miss work.

Absurd.

Links in french.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021...tour-au-pays-1

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021...1-000#cxrecs_s

casper Jan 2, 2021 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9147461)
Speaking of this goverment.

On the one hand, they're telling you don't travel, but on the other, if you come back form abroad, they will pay you 1000$ in you have to quarantine and miss work.

Absurd.

Links in french.

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021...tour-au-pays-1

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2021...1-000#cxrecs_s

To be clear this is a benefit offered to anyone who becomes sick with COVID and needs to quarantine. They are not differentiating between catching COVID at the local Sobey's store or on a beach in Hawaii.

Are you suggesting the government should add wording that the benefit does not apply if you became infected while outside the country?

thenoflyzone Jan 2, 2021 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9147490)

Are you suggesting the government should add wording that the benefit does not apply if you became infected while outside the country?

Yes. If you can afford to go down south, you can afford to quarantine 2 weeks on your own dime.

Truenorth00 Jan 3, 2021 2:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9147504)
Yes. If you can afford to go down south, you can afford to quarantine 2 weeks on your own dime.

How exactly do they tell where you got infected?

Truenorth00 Jan 3, 2021 2:59 AM

Dunno if it has been discussed but the proposed carbon tax increase to $170/tonne by 2030, would have substantial impacts on aviation. Particularly inside the Quebec-Windsor Corridor where there are alternatives. VIA provides a handy tool to compare emissions between the train, multiple occupancy car and airplane. Looking at Toronto-Montreal, for example, that carbon prices would as $2.51 to a train tickets but $14.11 to an air ticket.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.