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dales5050 Feb 5, 2016 12:20 PM

[QUOTE=ucsbgaucho;7325056]If the city wants any chance of hosting big events outside of football, monster trucks and concerts, they need a covered venue. You're not going to get the Final Four without a cover.
/QUOTE]

Since when did the Final Four become a consideration for San Diego? I don't think it ever was. I also don't think if San Diego had a dome they would even get a Final Four on a regular basis. Beyond that, putting a roof on a stadium in Southern California would do more harm than good.

The prize for San Diego would have been be Super Bowls. The Super Bowl is not really about the fans. It's about the sponsors. The fans get to watch it on the TV. The sponsors get to spend the weekend around the game by and large.

While the NFL will head to Minneapolis or Detroit every time they build a new stadium, by and large, they like to rotate to cities where the sponsors are going to enjoy the weather.

Also, not sure where you get that large concerts have some type of aversion to a cities that are known to average '72° and sunny' most of the year.

nezbn22 Feb 5, 2016 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nezbn22 (Post 7323328)
Briggs' non-opposition to this hotel is one of the most egregious cases of hypocrisy I've seen. He's so adamantly opposed to ANYTHING built on or near the waterfront, and yet this isn't so bad? C'mon buddy. As Mello pointed out, at least we know who's funding his BS (JMI).

That said, the hotel looks pretty sweet. It'll be one of the bigger upsets in development history if it gets past the Coastal Commission, though.

In other news, I've seen some activity over at Bosa's Kettner & Ash site. It might be/probably is nothing, but I'm hoping that tower gets moving soon...

Update on Kettner & Ash: drove by the site this morning on my way to work, and they now have the entire lot fenced off. Looks a lot like we're going to see another Bosa tower fill the skyline soon...

Nerv Feb 5, 2016 5:01 PM

Because some of those "sunny" days are really hot. Trying standing out in the sun for hours during a concert or convention event. It may be uncommon but it's also been known to rain when you least expect it (like this past july) in this new era of weather we now have.

Yes, we have usually good weather in this city but it also has it's share of very hot and cold rainy days too and at unexpected times. If you are spending in some case millions for an event or concert you need guarantees not some spin of we have great weather usually and sorry if your event gets screwed by bad weather.

I think a stadium project that hopes to be more than just a football stadium will need a covered roof of some type that stops really hot or rainy days from destroying an event. Otherwise you will get no takers. This point has been well discussed at comic con and by others who hold events here already.

Based on the weird ass hot and cold days we get here now year round in San Diego (and elsewhere in the world) I would saying betting on weather is probably the worse bet out there.

ucsbgaucho Feb 5, 2016 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dales5050 (Post 7325539)

Since when did the Final Four become a consideration for San Diego? I don't think it ever was. I also don't think if San Diego had a dome they would even get a Final Four on a regular basis. Beyond that, putting a roof on a stadium in Southern California would do more harm than good.

Yes the ultimate prize is a Super Bowl, but the Final Four would definitely come to SD. It's now going to come to LA for sure. They haven't had it on the West Coast since I think Seattle in 95 when UCLA won, and it was at the Kingdome. San Diego regularly gets opening-rounds selection (3 times since SDSU arena opened and again in 2018), they don't have a large-enough basketball venue to get a regional selection, but we hosted the Final Four in 1975. Basketball is big here, and the NCAA would love to get back to the West Coast. The next opening for a Final Four will go to LA I bet, now that the stadium is confirmed to be built.

In fact, since 2009 all the venues for the Final Four have been newly-opened football stadiums (except for the Superdome in 2012 and Georgia Dome in 13). Minneapolis gets 2019 now that they have a new stadium, Atlanta gets 2020 with their new stadium. 2022 is the next opening, I bet LA will get it.

The Super Bowl honestly is becoming an event that cities almost don't want because of costs. Read up on what the NFL now demands of it's host cities and provides no reimbursement for. San Francisco has to pay almost $5 million in city services and is getting reimbursed $100,000, and SF itself isn't even the host city technically. Glendale lost upwards of $1 million hosting last year due to public safety, transportation and other services.

And I'm sure concert promoters and acts do take into account weather when they plan their tours. They do them geographically to make sense for travel but I bet weather is a factor too; they won't do an open-air concert in NYC in February. While SD is pretty mild, especially a downtown venue right on the water, but it just makes their decisions that much easier if they know for sure weather will not play a factor.

Just depends on how much extra a roof would cost. I know they're expensive, $100 million for a retractable one, but that wouldn't be needed here.

dales5050 Feb 5, 2016 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho (Post 7325977)
Yes the ultimate prize is a Super Bowl, but the Final Four would definitely come to SD. It's now going to come to LA for sure. They haven't had it on the West Coast since I think Seattle in 95 when UCLA won, and it was at the Kingdome. San Diego regularly gets opening-rounds selection (3 times since SDSU arena opened and again in 2018), they don't have a large-enough basketball venue to get a regional selection, but we hosted the Final Four in 1975. Basketball is big here, and the NCAA would love to get back to the West Coast. The next opening for a Final Four will go to LA I bet, now that the stadium is confirmed to be built.

In fact, since 2009 all the venues for the Final Four have been newly-opened football stadiums (except for the Superdome in 2012 and Georgia Dome in 13). Minneapolis gets 2019 now that they have a new stadium, Atlanta gets 2020 with their new stadium. 2022 is the next opening, I bet LA will get it.

The Super Bowl honestly is becoming an event that cities almost don't want because of costs. Read up on what the NFL now demands of it's host cities and provides no reimbursement for. San Francisco has to pay almost $5 million in city services and is getting reimbursed $100,000, and SF itself isn't even the host city technically. Glendale lost upwards of $1 million hosting last year due to public safety, transportation and other services.

And I'm sure concert promoters and acts do take into account weather when they plan their tours. They do them geographically to make sense for travel but I bet weather is a factor too; they won't do an open-air concert in NYC in February. While SD is pretty mild, especially a downtown venue right on the water, but it just makes their decisions that much easier if they know for sure weather will not play a factor.

Just depends on how much extra a roof would cost. I know they're expensive, $100 million for a retractable one, but that wouldn't be needed here.

Meatball Sundae.

Look, if San Diego wants to go after a final four...they can go after one. But if at any point in time there was the idea to try include that goal in the goal of building a new football stadium, it was a pretty silly one.

You're talking about adding the how cities lose money on hosting the Super Bowl while at the same time adding upwards of $100M to a stadium that already was having difficulty in getting funding. How does that make sense?

I am not saying going after a Final Four is a bad idea. It's just not something that should be in the same conversation of a football stadium deal for a city like San Diego.

ucsbgaucho Feb 5, 2016 10:10 PM

That's why I said they should examine the costs of putting a roof on. $100 million is on the high end. Depending on how much extra it would add on, it could make sense. At $100 million it would not, but if it were half that, 5% of the overall cost, would it not make sense to consider?

Also, scary thought, Arizona's stadium for the Cardinals cost less than $500 million to build. We're looking at double that price. And they have the retractable roof AND a retractable field.

mello Feb 5, 2016 10:52 PM

BOSA: Wish he would start the other tower opposite Pacific Gate on Broadway first because its 45 floors and once finished that will be a very impressive cluster of towers at the foot of Broadway. Kettner and Ash will kind of get lost in the fray its a great filler but won't have much impact on the skyline.

Stadium: Final Fours are big as you get the fan base of 4 schools converging on your city for the week. I'm sure there is some kind of temporary tarping mechanism that can be latched on to the top of the stadium using helicopters and then cinched tightly to cover the stadium for a few days at a time.

I heard an interview with Steve Peace he is JMI's frontman on the Stadium/Convention center combo. He said the CC will be built underneath the stadium so they can be used simultaneously and that its a fallacy the annex would have huge scheduling issues during the NFL/NCAA Football season. Peace said a Charger/Bowl/Aztec game can absolutely be going on while the annex is being fully utilized for a convention so that whole argument of limited use from Sept thru Dec is completely bogus.

mhays Feb 5, 2016 11:07 PM

If a stadium isn't built for tarps, there's no way in hell they can install tarps. For starters the tarps would need to be extremely strong to handle that kind of span, and handle massive wind and rain loads. Second, so would the anchor points. Third, where would the rain go? Fourth, no matter what the plan is for rain, even a great tarp system sounds like leaks and cancellation with any sigificant rain, particularly since it'll all whipping around in the wind. As for methods, helicopters sound implausible and absurdly dangerous for that kind of use.

The Flying Dutchman Feb 5, 2016 11:33 PM

First and Beech
 
First and Beech up for design review:

http://www.civicsd.com/images/storie...15_reduced.pdf

Nerv Feb 6, 2016 6:35 PM

If it's a stand alone stadium for football only the roof is almost pointless.

If it's being sold as possible extra convention center space and special events like concerts the cost of a roof whatever it is would be part of the hundreds of millions the convention center expansion will be.

Like I said it will be sold as a combo stadium/convention center project and not just a football stadium. That's a tricky order to pull off but I'm still open to it myself until I see what they come up with. The city did do an excellent job I think with what they came up with for a new stadium so we'll see if they have the Magic a second time if the combo happens.

It might be an easier sell too with doing two projects as one instead of testing both separate.

SDfan Feb 9, 2016 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Flying Dutchman (Post 7326350)
First and Beech up for design review:

http://www.civicsd.com/images/storie...15_reduced.pdf

I hope this catches this cycle. It would be a great addition for the area.

SDfan Feb 9, 2016 1:47 AM

Why people continue promoting the handicapping of the East Village, I will never know. Logic and reason seem to fly out the window when shinny stadiums appear...

Bertrice Feb 9, 2016 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7328831)
Why people continue promoting the handicapping of the East Village, I will never know. Logic and reason seem to fly out the window when shinny stadiums appear...

EV is a squatters paradise . A stadium there although not a lot of room won't destroy any progress or charm. most of EV is north of the bus yard anyway and it looks like a war zone there too

spoonman Feb 9, 2016 6:08 PM

I see both sides, but ultimately support having a stadium as opposed to having no stadium and no NFL team.

Part of the reason I support the stadium is that IMO the stadium will not displace much private development as most of the land will be from the bus yard, which would not otherwise be available for private development (at least anytime soon). In addition, the stadium could help push new development towards (more than there is now) Barrio Logan and the Coronado Bridge.

Nerv Feb 9, 2016 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7328831)
Why people continue promoting the handicapping of the East Village, I will never know. Logic and reason seem to fly out the window when shinny stadiums appear...



If it's just football stadium I would agree with you. The Qualcomm site makes way more sense.

If it's the only way to do a project with more convention space than I say do it.

East village has been on a pretty slow burn for projects and I don't recall anyone else wanting to do something great on that site instead so that's why I don't have a big problem with putting another stadium there.

I understand the position of there being limited land in the city for future high rises but it also gets to the point where do you want to see empty land sitting there for the next couple of decades vs a project now.

If parking is the other issue, eh, it would certainly be worse than most Padres games but a full stadium would be a lot less issue than comic con parking is and we all seem to survive that. It would only be about 10 days a year we would have football games here (preseason/regular). We'd live. Downtown needs to catch up building parking structures regardless of any future projects.

SDCAL Feb 11, 2016 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bertrice (Post 7328972)
EV is a squatters paradise . A stadium there although not a lot of room won't destroy any progress or charm. most of EV is north of the bus yard anyway and it looks like a war zone there too

As someone who lives in EV, I'd rather see "squatters" than endless sports bars, chain restaurants, and drunken sophomoric morons who come in from other parts of the county to watch sports, drink and get laid. There's enough of that by Petco and the Asslamp District. Not everyone thinks pristine neighborhoods of whitewashed chain establishments is charming. EV has a history of artists and creativity beyond just the homeless problem, much of that has been lost and a downtown football stadium would be the final nail in the coffin. In fact, if a football stadium is built I will sell my condo and most likely leave SD, and there is at least one other person who has told me they will do the same. I am someone who walks a lot in EV and patronizes establishments there on a daily basis. If my neighborhood is destroyed by a football stadium, I might as well just sell to a wealthy sports enthusiast who will only occupy it during game weeks.

mello Feb 12, 2016 5:55 AM

SDCAL: Hasn't most of the art stuff that was in East Village just moved to Barrio Logan or Sherman/Logan Heights? I honestly don't remember much of an arts scene in EV, where was it and what was it? Can you also give us your plan for how on Earth the black hole that is the 4 square block MTS Busyard ever gets moved? In a perfect world I would love from some Chinese Billionaire to come in and tear it out and build a bunch of towers there or maybe a smaller stadium for MLS or an Arena but that just isn't going to happen. Or even an awesome concept for a huge vertical SDSU campus expansion on the MTS site (dreaming). I'm not saying I'm super pro stadium in the EV as well but I'm just sick of all that vacant land sitting there and would also like to see JMI's 500 foot hotel get built as well.

sdFan09 Feb 12, 2016 8:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7332874)
As someone who lives in EV, I'd rather see "squatters" than endless sports bars, chain restaurants, and drunken sophomoric morons who come in from other parts of the county to watch sports, drink and get laid. There's enough of that by Petco and the Asslamp District. Not everyone thinks pristine neighborhoods of whitewashed chain establishments is charming. EV has a history of artists and creativity beyond just the homeless problem, much of that has been lost and a downtown football stadium would be the final nail in the coffin. In fact, if a football stadium is built I will sell my condo and most likely leave SD, and there is at least one other person who has told me they will do the same. I am someone who walks a lot in EV and patronizes establishments there on a daily basis. If my neighborhood is destroyed by a football stadium, I might as well just sell to a wealthy sports enthusiast who will only occupy it during game weeks.

This sounds so bitchy. EV smells like piss and is crawling with homeless people. There are more than enough artist communities in SD. If a Stadium will make you leave then leave. There is more to San Diego than your little pocket of what you wish was East Village in New York. Congrats on patronizing places that are close to you. That's called convenience not choice. You sound insufferable and I hope you leave so that there is one less douche canoe left in this city. The "Asslamp" as you call it is the reason that you can be safe at all in downtown to begin with. If it weren't for the "asslamp" most of downtown would still be filled with hookers, pimps and drug dealers. You don't get to have your condo downtown while keeping your "artist" community unchanged especially when the artist community always goes to where rent is cheap which the market dictates is not downtown. I've found that people that use the word sophomoric outside of high school tend to be pedantic little bitches who like to complain about things changing around them despite the fact that those changes are probably for the better.

SDCAL Feb 12, 2016 3:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdFan09 (Post 7333345)
This sounds so bitchy. EV smells like piss and is crawling with homeless people. There are more than enough artist communities in SD. If a Stadium will make you leave then leave. There is more to San Diego than your little pocket of what you wish was East Village in New York. Congrats on patronizing places that are close to you. That's called convenience not choice. You sound insufferable and I hope you leave so that there is one less douche canoe left in this city. The "Asslamp" as you call it is the reason that you can be safe at all in downtown to begin with. If it weren't for the "asslamp" most of downtown would still be filled with hookers, pimps and drug dealers. You don't get to have your condo downtown while keeping your "artist" community unchanged especially when the artist community always goes to where rent is cheap which the market dictates is not downtown. I've found that people that use the word sophomoric outside of high school tend to be pedantic little bitches who like to complain about things changing around them despite the fact that those changes are probably for the better.

Where do you live? Isn't the whole point of downtown redevelopment to make it a balance of live/work/entertainment? It's sorely lacking in employment and adding another large sports stadium to a neighborhood that already has a large sports stadium will cement the last major undeveloped neighborhood of downtown as a sports/entertainment complex, and I don't agree with that. Sorry you find that "bitchy" but I'm sure you would be passionate about a proposal you didn't like if it were right around the corner from where you live. You obviously have a different vision than I do, but that is no excuse to attack me personally. Many cities over the last many decades have turned to crap by adding chain stores and becoming indistinguishable from each other. Downtowns have begun to reverse that trend nationwide, but another stadium would ruin that here in my opinion. I have a lot of friends and neighbors here who agree with me. So if you don't like my opinion fine, you sound like a creepy, bitter, old crank anyway who needs to be in a bubble and carry hand sanitizer with you if you go to any neighborhood you deem "sub par." If a stadium draws more sanitized self-righteous judgmental jerks like yourself downtown to complain about homeless people and bad smells, then it cements my opinion even further that it's a bad idea. Thanks for the laugh by the way, I think it's really cute when obvious douches try to be preemptive and call other people douches.

SDCAL Feb 12, 2016 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7333305)
SDCAL: Hasn't most of the art stuff that was in East Village just moved to Barrio Logan or Sherman/Logan Heights? I honestly don't remember much of an arts scene in EV, where was it and what was it? Can you also give us your plan for how on Earth the black hole that is the 4 square block MTS Busyard ever gets moved? In a perfect world I would love from some Chinese Billionaire to come in and tear it out and build a bunch of towers there or maybe a smaller stadium for MLS or an Arena but that just isn't going to happen. Or even an awesome concept for a huge vertical SDSU campus expansion on the MTS site (dreaming). I'm not saying I'm super pro stadium in the EV as well but I'm just sick of all that vacant land sitting there and would also like to see JMI's 500 foot hotel get built as well.

Downtown needs tech and good paying jobs not another giant sports stadium - we have the hotels, stadium, condos - the jobs for people that actually live there are missing. Another sports stadium will make downtown predominately a destination and not a live-work area as I thought was the goal in the long-term plan.


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