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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160247)

1487 Apr 12, 2017 7:03 PM

http://philly.curbed.com/2017/4/12/1...rp-restoration

Pics to prove the point

summersm343 Apr 13, 2017 7:37 AM

Restoration of the Hale Building is underway

Read more here:
http://philly.curbed.com/2017/4/12/1...rp-restoration

Justin7 Apr 13, 2017 2:24 PM

The entrance looks ridiculous, but still a great project.

br323206 Apr 13, 2017 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Wide (Post 7771032)
You sound like you might believe 'in one size fits all', but I also think you're smart enough to know that's not the way the system works. A run down neighborhood with half its houses still standing is just not the same situation as 17th. and JFK. Period

A couple points:
IMO, we don't operate in a complete market system, and I'm more then ok with that. To me I believe ownership probably entitles one to build whatever is ALLOWED. So in my perfect world part of being "allowed" would involve more community input about the specifics not just about area wide rezoning. I realize that on these pages more regulation and more community input is going to fly like a lead balloon, and given the sick nature of gov't around here I understand why. But I also have experienced large parts of western Europe where planning works, where new and (really) old can live together (but there aren't the huge income discrepancies there that plague us here).
I don't claim to have worked the details out, but lets say along with ownership comes the responsibility to maintain the building. If one can't keep it up, sell it or give it away. And then building on top of that it would easier to say that ownership does not entitle one to tear the building down without having to jump through various hoops.

But as I said, I don't believe in the inherit goodness of the 'free market' nor do I believe we presently live in a free market. So I want better gov't and more of it, in that order.

It seems like you want zoning to do something that it just can't do. I think that's the beef with your viewpoint. I agree that regulation serves a great purpose. I write regulations (including zoning ordinances) for a living. I obviously believe that they serve the public good. It's just that the courts have clearly established what municipalities can and cannot do to regulate land use and it seems that you want the city to do something outside its actual power.

City Wide Apr 13, 2017 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by br323206 (Post 7771873)
It seems like you want zoning to do something that it just can't do. I think that's the beef with your viewpoint. I agree that regulation serves a great purpose. I write regulations (including zoning ordinances) for a living. I obviously believe that they serve the public good. It's just that the courts have clearly established what municipalities can and cannot do to regulate land use and it seems that you want the city to do something outside its actual power.

Back to the start-----which I believe began when I blamed recent zoning changes for the tear down of fine, serviceable, occupied, in good shape, old, and with some historic importance, twins along Chestnut St in the 4000 block. (I also blamed insensitive developers).
I realize that zoning can't 'save' a building, but in this case the new zoning is the primary reason that a tear down made financial sense. The only difference between building on raw land vs land that has a building sitting on it is the cost of the demo (and a few other minor related costs). With the 'old' zoning it didn't make sense to go to that expense to have a net gain of a few units. But the 'new' zoning allowed much more density and height. So bring on the wrecking ball.

From being involved, or at least trying to be involved, with the community planning for the new zoning for UC several years ago I can say without any doubt that 1. the meetings were a dog and pony show. They were ran by the 'professional planners' who knew what they wanted and holding the meetings was simply a step that had to be publically taken. The community had effectively zero say in the end result. 2. I believe that this type of tear down and rebuild, which has happened in many (10?) places around UC, was not intended by the new zoning changes. It just wasn't thought about; so much for the professionals being very good at what they did. 3. Now that we know how the new zoning can be used there seems to be little to NO interest in trying to find a patch for the problems it has created. The professionals just throw their hands up and say "sorry, you'll do better the next time". So the community is left to try to find other means to stop the tear downs. 4. from my perspective the whole process was most definitely a net loss.

Do you have any thoughts in answer to "1487's" question about how to save old buildings? I realize that answering him personally seems like hitting a moving target, but his question isn't bad. Without labelling everything over 50 years old historic, which they aren't and is a bad/wrong use of the law, how can it be made harder to stop developers from placing their quest for the all mighty dollar in front of all other concerns?

PhilliesPhan Apr 13, 2017 3:50 PM

I just read that there will be a new Wawa on 13th and Chestnut, presumably taking the I. Goldenburg space. We already knew about the second location at 22nd and South. Looks like Center City is getting another large-format Wawa!

City Wide Apr 13, 2017 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourS (Post 7769173)
Does anyone know what's planned for 43rd and Chestnut? They are digging a mighty big hole there with nothing posted and I haven't heard anything.

I thought you meant the 4000 block of Chestnut. There is a new building in the final stages in the 4200 block on the north side, plus another building on the south side with demo notices. I'll have to look on the 4300 block, but nothing comes to mind.

Redddog Apr 13, 2017 5:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan (Post 7771972)
I just read that there will be a new Wawa on 13th and Chestnut, presumably taking the I. Goldenburg space. We already knew about the second location at 22nd and South. Looks like Center City is getting another large-format Wawa!

Which now begs the question....how many wawa is too many?

1487 Apr 13, 2017 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by City Wide (Post 7771981)
I thought you meant the 4000 block of Chestnut. There is a new building in the final stages in the 4200 block on the north side, plus another building on the south side with demo notices. I'll have to look on the 4300 block, but nothing comes to mind.

i answered this a few posts back. A 5 story residential building is going up near 43rd and chestnut. Not sure how many units.

Baconboy007 Apr 13, 2017 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redddog (Post 7772093)
Which now begs the question....how many wawa is too many?

That's less than a 5 minute walk from the one on Broad and Walnut.

1487 Apr 13, 2017 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baconboy007 (Post 7772100)
That's less than a 5 minute walk from the one on Broad and Walnut.

yes, its a bit mind boggling that they would do this.

Knight Hospitaller Apr 13, 2017 5:50 PM

^ And didn't we hear about one going in at East Market?

tsarstruck Apr 13, 2017 7:16 PM

Anyone know anything about the roof decks going in on the BNY Mellon Center? They have a special exception in front of the ZBA for them at the end of April.

SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE ERECTION OF ROOF DECKS AT FIFTH ( 5TH ) AND SIXTH (6TH ) FLOORS AS PART OF EXISTING STRUCTURE ACCESSORY TO EXISTING OFFICE BUILDING USE ON THE SAME LOT WITH ALL OTHER USES AS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. NO SIGN ON THIS APPLICATION. SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION

Parkway Apr 13, 2017 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1487 (Post 7772120)
yes, its a bit mind boggling that they would do this.

Go into that one during the morning or over lunch and your mind will be quickly un-boggled.

New2Fishtown Apr 13, 2017 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsarstruck (Post 7772310)
Anyone know anything about the roof decks going in on the BNY Mellon Center? They have a special exception in front of the ZBA for them at the end of April.

SPECIAL EXCEPTION FOR THE ERECTION OF ROOF DECKS AT FIFTH ( 5TH ) AND SIXTH (6TH ) FLOORS AS PART OF EXISTING STRUCTURE ACCESSORY TO EXISTING OFFICE BUILDING USE ON THE SAME LOT WITH ALL OTHER USES AS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED. NO SIGN ON THIS APPLICATION. SIZE AND LOCATION AS SHOWN IN THE APPLICATION

Fairly certain they are fitting out the 5th/6th floors as amenity space for office tenants to update the building and help it maintain its status as a premium office choice (it is more than 25 years old, after all). As major office markets go, Philly's been very late to the idea of outdoor amenities within buildings for tenants. The new owners of 325 Chestnut are doing it in Old City, 2400 Market is going to have outdoor spaces on the upper floors for Aramark, and there's a few small decks off of lower floors of Two Logan. Beyond these options, there isn't much.

tsarstruck Apr 13, 2017 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New2Fishtown (Post 7772397)
Fairly certain they are fitting out the 5th/6th floors as amenity space for office tenants to update the building and help it maintain its status as a premium office choice (it is more than 25 years old, after all). As major office markets go, Philly's been very late to the idea of outdoor amenities within buildings for tenants. The new owners of 325 Chestnut are doing it in Old City, 2400 Market is going to have outdoor spaces on the upper floors for Aramark, and there's a few small decks off of lower floors of Two Logan. Beyond these options, there isn't much.

That's what I figured, although I had half a thought that they could somehow sneak in the Uptown Beer Garden up there.

arnaz Apr 14, 2017 1:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by summersm343 (Post 7771676)
Restoration of the Hale Building is underway

Read more here:
http://philly.curbed.com/2017/4/12/1...rp-restoration

Glad to see something happening here. I work across the street from here and this stretch of Juniper between Samson & Chestnut has to be one of the worse blocks in CC. The scaffolding has turned into a shelter for the homeless. I don't know what's worse... dodging human feces on my way to the office or having to hear my Jersey co-workers complain about dodging human feces.

donoteat Apr 14, 2017 1:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FourS (Post 7769173)
Does anyone know what's planned for 43rd and Chestnut? They are digging a mighty big hole there with nothing posted and I haven't heard anything.

Ugly student housing, by the same folks who brought you ugly student housing on the 4000 block of Chestnut.

I used to live on the 4000 block and was kicked out by this company; now I live on the 4200 block and I'm hoping they don't kick me out again :|

(If they do I'm moving to 58th or something and hope they leave me the hell alone)

1487 Apr 14, 2017 5:29 PM

Looks like Eternity fashion is moving east adjacent to the new AC Moore store where there had been signs of construction activity over past few months. I guess this means the high rent of the 1500 block forced them out. Should be interesting to see what comes next there and in 1520 which is still vacant. Probably a national food chain of some sort.

1487 Apr 14, 2017 5:31 PM

Hopefully someone can uncover some of this. Sounds interesting.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelp...chuylkill.html


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