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jonny24 Oct 31, 2019 2:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8733942)
I probably know less about country music than anyone on this forum but I do know this guy is a very big name in that genre. (I know no songs of his though.)

I would also question the decision of the CFL to go with country music if they want to appeal to a younger, broader audience.

Though in fairness you have to consider their existing fan base and where the GC is being held.

Also, in fairness (2) they've had Alessia Cara in recent years, and also Shania Twain who is a huge star and a good cross-over artist.

Just wanted to reply even though it's been said, but country is huge with people my age (25). Especially girls. Heck, I'm from the country, and don't like it very much, and I'm constantly surprised by the number of "city" people who are into it.

Oh, and even though I'm not a country fan, even I had Keith Urban on my Ipod in high school. :shrug:

Acajack Oct 31, 2019 3:57 PM

Every 20 years or so country music seems to make an incursion into the mainstream. Then it inevitably retreats back into its usual "home" space.

I remember one of the last times was in the first years of the 1990s.

And prior to that in the latter part of the 70s (or maybe the early 80s?) with the Urban Cowboy movie and the explosion in popularity of country megabars with mechanical bulls and stuff like that.

craneSpotter Oct 31, 2019 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8734874)
Every 20 years or so country music seems to make an incursion into the mainstream. Then it inevitably retreats back into its usual "home" space.

I remember one of the last times was in the first years of the 1990s.

And prior to that in the latter part of the 70s (or maybe the early 80s?) with the Urban Cowboy movie and the explosion in popularity of country megabars with mechanical bulls and stuff like that.

Maybe true, and further I think it is just certain artists that bring country to the mainstream every so often, like Taylor Swift and Florida Georgia Line - Taylor has since transitioned to POP tho (probably listened to her own country music one day and said this is crap! lol)

Country does have regional pockets in Canada where the music is fairly popular - like the rural Canadian prairies (plus Calgary I think still and Sask cities too).

Overall Country has slipped below Latin music in popularity in North America now. Which is just one reason my kids will take Spanish in HS.

thurmas Oct 31, 2019 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8735227)
Maybe true, and further I think it is just certain artists that bring country to the mainstream every so often, like Taylor Swift and Florida Georgia Line - Taylor has since transitioned to POP tho (probably listened to her own country music one day and said this is crap! lol)

Country does have regional pockets in Canada where the music is fairly popular - like the rural Canadian prairies (plus Calgary I think still and Sask cities too).

Overall Country has slipped below Latin music in popularity in North America now. Which is just one reason my kids will take Spanish in HS.

Country is very popular here in Winnipeg and Manitoba. I think Latin music is big in the U.S I would not say so in Canada as our Latin population is so small compared to New York LA and in Florida and Texas

LakeLocker Nov 1, 2019 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny24 (Post 8734732)
Just wanted to reply even though it's been said, but country is huge with people my age (25). Especially girls. Heck, I'm from the country, and don't like it very much, and I'm constantly surprised by the number of "city" people who are into it.

Oh, and even though I'm not a country fan, even I had Keith Urban on my Ipod in high school. :shrug:

I feel like this attitude is a failure to understand Country. I naturally hate it as I trend high on trait openness.

But I've learned to accept that it is an incredibly egalitarian style of music.

There is something nice about a style of music that tries so dam hard to stay egalitarian.

An old pair of boots in a pickup truck isn't just about being a cowboy. Its about the idea that we should value simpler things in an attempt to be more equal as a society.

VANRIDERFAN Nov 1, 2019 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeLocker (Post 8735660)
I feel like this attitude is a failure to understand Country. I naturally hate it as I trend high on trait openness.

But I've learned to accept that it is an incredibly egalitarian style of music.

There is something nice about a style of music that tries so dam hard to stay egalitarian.

An old pair of boots in a pickup truck isn't just about being a cowboy. Its about the idea that we should value simpler things in an attempt to be more equal as a society.

Radiolab did a story on the international appeal of old time country music.

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aH...=1572568643906

Songs that Cross Borders
2 days ago · 27 min · (23.8 MB)
Play episode
Coming off our adventures with Square Dancing, and Jad's dive into the world of Dolly Parton, we look back at one our favorites. About a decade ago, we found out that American country music is surprising popular in places like Zimbabwe, Thailand, and South Africa. Aaron Fox, an anthropologist of music at Columbia University, tells us that quite simply, country music tells a story that a lot of us get. Then, intrepid international reporter Gregory Warner takes us along on one of his very first forays into another country, where he discovers an unexpected taste of home.

Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate.

Aaron Foxes book: Real Country: Music And Language In Working-Class Culture

Gregory Warner's podcast Rough Translation

SaskScraper Nov 2, 2019 1:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8735227)
Maybe true, and further I think it is just certain artists that bring country to the mainstream every so often, like Taylor Swift and Florida Georgia Line - Taylor has since transitioned to POP tho (probably listened to her own country music one day and said this is crap! lol)

Country does have regional pockets in Canada where the music is fairly popular - like the rural Canadian prairies (plus Calgary I think still and Sask cities too).

Overall Country has slipped below Latin music in popularity in North America now. Which is just one reason my kids will take Spanish in HS.

Some parts of Canada predictably don't get much country music influence, notably Quebec. Most Country acts like Luke Combs, Carrie Underwood, Little Big Town, just to name a few, skipped that province on their tours this year.

But Country Music holds the fundamental traits that a lot of music today now has, If you can do Country music you can do just about any style of popular music with very few exceptions, Taylor Swift is good an example of this and of how International the genre is.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/ent...rity/85332910/

America's Country Music Association indicate the genre is still a favourite in the United Kingdom with 39% of adults listening to the format. Country2Country Music festival in England routinely draws 50,000.
Tamworth, Australia's Music festival is second largest Country festival on the planet.
Country Music is the most listened to drive home commute music listened to in the USA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_music

Two Saskatchewan Country Music artists/groups performed at the NHL Heritage Classic last weekend at Mosaic Stadium in Regina.

Both the Hunter Brothers from Shaunavon, SK and Jess Moskaluke from Langenburg, SK are Country artists and were at the hockey game for live performances & reportedly one of them did the national anthem, I couldn't find an actual video for the singing of the national anthem at the hockey game last Saturday night, but found Blue Jays Baseball games National Anthems from each of them, acapella style of course. :tup:

Video Link


Video Link

SaskScraper Nov 2, 2019 1:21 AM

^^Pardon me, on more investigation, it was the Hunter Brothers that did the pregame show & National Anthem at Mosaic Stadium in Regina last weekend, Jess Moskaluke did the show between periods and the Sheepdogs from Saskatoon did the other show between periods to round out the NHL Heritage Classic in Regina, largely with Country Music as the main musical entertainment.

Some more current videos of each artist if you haven't heard of them before:

Video Link


Video Link


Video Link

LakeLocker Nov 2, 2019 1:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8736750)
Some parts of Canada predictably don't get much country music influence, notably Quebec. Most Country acts like Luke Combs, Carrie Underwood, Little Big Town, just to name a few, skipped that province on their tours this year.


.

That's because Quebec has its own version of country music, or atleast that's what my radio picks up.

craneSpotter Nov 2, 2019 3:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 8735373)
Country is very popular here in Winnipeg and Manitoba. I think Latin music is big in the U.S I would not say so in Canada as our Latin population is so small compared to New York LA and in Florida and Texas

I assumed country was fairly popular in Manitoba - probably falls in right after pop/rock. I expect there are some country pockets in the Maritimes and Ontario, too. However it just does not have the widespread popularity it had 20-30 years ago - especially within Canada's largest urban areas with their rapidly changing demographics. I'd bet K-pop is more popular in metro Vancouver than country.

We are heavily influenced by the US in music and entertainment material consumed. While I acknowledge our (Canada) Hispanic population is small, it is significant just south of us, where most of this material is generated. I notice more 'Latin' hip-hop going mainstream each year.

Just listen to what you enjoy...stats are just stats.

BTW here are Canada's favourite 10 artists for the first half of 2019 - look at Queen! I only really listen to half of them....

https://i.ibb.co/cN7qy1v/Screen-Shot...0-12-12-PM.png

https://www.nielsen.com/wp-content/u...eport-2019.pdf

king10 Nov 2, 2019 4:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonny24 (Post 8734732)
Just wanted to reply even though it's been said, but country is huge with people my age (25). Especially girls. Heck, I'm from the country, and don't like it very much, and I'm constantly surprised by the number of "city" people who are into it.

Oh, and even though I'm not a country fan, even I had Keith Urban on my Ipod in high school. :shrug:

Quoting this for truth. Late 20s and the girls and guys my age lovvvvve country music. Hamilton has seen its fair share of big acts over the past 5 years.

Acajack Nov 2, 2019 4:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LakeLocker (Post 8736760)
That's because Quebec has its own version of country music, or atleast that's what my radio picks up.

This is true though anyone who listens to that in Quebec will also listen to anglo country.

Djeffery Nov 2, 2019 2:29 PM

In the 80's we had bubble gum pop music. Country fills that niche now.

esquire Nov 2, 2019 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by king10 (Post 8736848)
Quoting this for truth. Late 20s and the girls and guys my age lovvvvve country music. Hamilton has seen its fair share of big acts over the past 5 years.

I could see Hamilton being a popular place for those types of acts given proximity and ease of access for people living in small towns and rural areas in that corner of Ontario.

blueandgoldguy Nov 6, 2019 3:23 AM

Final MLS attendance numbers

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019-mls-attendance/

18 of 24 teams saw there attendance decrease although one team(Minnesota) moved into a smaller capacity stadium so I guess we can say 17 teams saw a decline.

Attendance was down by an average of over 500 per game...the second consecutive year there has been a decline. Not what you want to see from a relatively new league.

Toronto's attendance declined significantly from 26,628 to 25,048. This despite having a winning record and earning a playoff spot in contrast to last year's disastrous season.

Vancouver saw a massive decline in attendance as well from 21,946 to 19,514.

Montreal had their worst attendance yet declining from 18,569 to 16,171.

So we are looking at declines of 2500 per game for two of the lowest revenue teams in MLS. This is a huge cause for concern.

blueandgoldguy Nov 6, 2019 3:39 AM

Forbes just released their numbers for MLS Franchise Valuations.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm.../#6308d8d151b5

Put simply, Major League Soccer’s surging expansion fees and sales prices are not being driven by financial performance. In fact, although revenues are broadly on the rise, the league and most of its teams continue to operate at a significant loss. But MLS investors are still spending big to secure a share of the U.S. soccer market because their eyes are set on potential goldmines down the road: a new national TV deal in 2023, a stateside World Cup in 2026 and, if everything goes just right, a future American sports landscape wherein domestic soccer can hold its own against the likes of the NFL and the NBA.

And those deals have transpired alongside the rocketing expansion fees being asked from—and readily paid by—prospective new owners. League investors in Cincinnati and Nashville agreed to pay $150 million to join up while planned teams in St. Louis and Sacramento will come on at an expansion fee of $200 million. The next round, for MLS team No. 30, is expected to sell for more than $300 million. That’s triple what NYCFC and Orlando paid less than five years ago, and it’s a staggering 650% increase over the $40 million that the Montreal Impact’s owners paid to join the league in 2012.

Those aren’t the sorts of prices a sports banker would arrive at given the financial performance of a typical MLS team. In fact, we estimate that, of the 23 teams that played in 2018, just six turned a profit (and half of those were just barely in the black). Altogether, the league’s teams lost more than $100 million last year. And MLS is losing even more money at the league level—as a single-entity operation, player salaries are paid through the league office—which means team owners are on the hook for a sizable capital call in addition to the red ink in their local markets.


Toronto's revenue actually decline from the previous year and their losses for 2018 were $19 million!!:help:

Montreal and Vancouver pulled up the rear of the league in revenues, 18 and 20 million respectively.

Montreal suffered a massive $12 million in losses while Vancouver had a more manageable $5 million in losses. Keep in mind these losses are for the 2018 season. Given both teams saw a significant decline in attendance in 2019 and there has been no new significant revenue sources (although selling off Davies will provide a short-term respite for the WHitecaps) this year, it is likely losses will be worse when next year's report is released.

The situations in Montreal and Vancouver and untenable in the long-term. If Saputo cannot come to an agreement for improvements to his stadium and Vancouver is not able to build a new venue for which it controls all the revenues then it is likely both teams will not be long for this country.

JHikka Nov 6, 2019 3:50 PM

One thing that you failed to copy/paste over was MLS' investments in SUM:

There’s more in play than the future of MLS, though. That’s because, in addition to their franchise operating rights, the league’s investors also own stakes in Soccer United Marketing (SUM), the black-box subsidiary that has a hand in managing the commercial rights for almost every major soccer property in North America. In addition to negotiating sponsorship and television deals for MLS, SUM handles commercial rights for the U.S. Soccer Federation, Concacaf and the Mexican national team’s U.S. tours, among other properties.

Forbes has estimated that SUM generates annual revenues of some $350 million, and it’s profitable, too; last year the property distributed $125 million to league owners. In 2017, SUM was valued at $2 billion after MLS bought out the stake owned by Providence Equity Partners (SUM is now wholly owned by the league’s investors). Although SUM dividends aren’t included in the teams’ operating revenues, they go a long way toward explaining why MLS franchises cost so much; in fact, the league’s least-valuable teams derive nearly half their total value from their stake in SUM.

So it makes some sense that MLS owners would invest big in a money-losing enterprise, given that they’re also securing a long-term interest in the continued success of soccer in the North America. That may start looking like a very smart bet in 2026, when the World Cup returns to the United States for the first time since the 1994 edition that fueled the launch of MLS. And although most teams may struggle to break even, there is a glimmer of hope offered by the league’s elite franchises, which are already showing that an uber-successful MLS team can be a license to print money.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm.../#7310a10251b5

Emphasis added mine.

So the teams are operating on a loss due to investments in sport infrastructure and personnel but the owners are effectively breaking even thanks to marketng and corporate deals which are not included in team revenue reporting.

esquire Nov 6, 2019 3:55 PM

^ Very interesting re: SUM. I always kind of wondered how MLS franchises were valued at such high numbers when most teams have revenues roughly on the same scale as CFL teams according to the Forbes chart. But that makes it clear that the teams themselves are only a part of the overall business picture.

SHOFEAR Nov 6, 2019 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craneSpotter (Post 8735227)
Maybe true, and further I think it is just certain artists that bring country to the mainstream every so often, like Taylor Swift and Florida Georgia Line - Taylor has since transitioned to POP tho (probably listened to her own country music one day and said this is crap! lol)

Country does have regional pockets in Canada where the music is fairly popular - like the rural Canadian prairies (plus Calgary I think still and Sask cities too).

Overall Country has slipped below Latin music in popularity in North America now. Which is just one reason my kids will take Spanish in HS.


Been to a few weddings in recent years across the county that really exposed some regional differences in music.

Apparently St Johns and Sherbrook don't do Cadillac Ranch. Their loss. Had enough Albertans at each wedding t pull it off and I certainly enjoyed the confused look of everybody watching.

thurmas Nov 6, 2019 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8740253)
Forbes just released their numbers for MLS Franchise Valuations.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm.../#6308d8d151b5

Put simply, Major League Soccer’s surging expansion fees and sales prices are not being driven by financial performance. In fact, although revenues are broadly on the rise, the league and most of its teams continue to operate at a significant loss. But MLS investors are still spending big to secure a share of the U.S. soccer market because their eyes are set on potential goldmines down the road: a new national TV deal in 2023, a stateside World Cup in 2026 and, if everything goes just right, a future American sports landscape wherein domestic soccer can hold its own against the likes of the NFL and the NBA.

And those deals have transpired alongside the rocketing expansion fees being asked from—and readily paid by—prospective new owners. League investors in Cincinnati and Nashville agreed to pay $150 million to join up while planned teams in St. Louis and Sacramento will come on at an expansion fee of $200 million. The next round, for MLS team No. 30, is expected to sell for more than $300 million. That’s triple what NYCFC and Orlando paid less than five years ago, and it’s a staggering 650% increase over the $40 million that the Montreal Impact’s owners paid to join the league in 2012.

Those aren’t the sorts of prices a sports banker would arrive at given the financial performance of a typical MLS team. In fact, we estimate that, of the 23 teams that played in 2018, just six turned a profit (and half of those were just barely in the black). Altogether, the league’s teams lost more than $100 million last year. And MLS is losing even more money at the league level—as a single-entity operation, player salaries are paid through the league office—which means team owners are on the hook for a sizable capital call in addition to the red ink in their local markets.


Toronto's revenue actually decline from the previous year and their losses for 2018 were $19 million!!:help:

Montreal and Vancouver pulled up the rear of the league in revenues, 18 and 20 million respectively.

Montreal suffered a massive $12 million in losses while Vancouver had a more manageable $5 million in losses. Keep in mind these losses are for the 2018 season. Given both teams saw a significant decline in attendance in 2019 and there has been no new significant revenue sources (although selling off Davies will provide a short-term respite for the WHitecaps) this year, it is likely losses will be worse when next year's report is released.

The situations in Montreal and Vancouver and untenable in the long-term. If Saputo cannot come to an agreement for improvements to his stadium and Vancouver is not able to build a new venue for which it controls all the revenues then it is likely both teams will not be long for this country.

That is not a good business model if the whole league is depending on a new magic tv deal to survive. I guess they are hoping to pull a WWE who got a giant rich tv deal this year with Fox that is propping up their failing business enterprise with ratings and interest in their product at an all time low but revenue is the best it has ever been with their new fox tv deal.


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