Wow! That’s awesome! Thanks for the update. I’ll believe it when I see it! Hope they starts construction soon.

I was interested in the credit rating, so I read it. Here it is: https://www.fitchratings.com/researc...ble-17-08-2022

Basically, it's what you'd expect, but it's good to get some validation. O'hare it critical to the nation's air traffic, its finances are in great shape and the Modernization Plan is excellent.

Nice updates! Really looking forward to the completion of this project!

To add on to this, I just checked the ord21 website and found this new rendering of the overview of the whole project. I wonder if this is the shape of the redesigned global terminal that people were talking about earlier since it still maintains a space for the star as originally planned but also has a more traditional design to help with energy costs.

There also appears to be 2 A380 gates so that will bring the total to 4 A380 gates including the other 2 in Terminal 5 so plenty of capacity for the superjumbo if more airlines decided to bring it to ORD.

https://ord21.com/SiteCollectionImag...ering-wide.jpg

https://ord21.com/home/pages/default.aspx

Great to hear about the additional small details. Also happy to hear about an official "Grand Opening" of T5 this upcoming year. Hopefully that means new/upgraded security checkpoints......

I'm sure this has been answered before, but is the new underground tunnel connecting to the new satellite going to be like the existing connection from B->C, or is it going to have a transit component to it (a train/people mover)? Also, will this replace the existing B->C connection, or simply augment it?

On the Global Terminal front, I feel like we shouldn't read too much into specific gate information. Given construction won't even start until 2027/2028, there could be a TON of design changes if the industry moves in one direction vs another. I'm sure things could be tweaked in the design plans to accommodate more 380s... Or less given how much United is buying into the 787s right now.

Speaking of the industry..... Is it too early to begin speculating on the future of Midway given the complete meltdown of Southwest currently underway? There's no way this doesn't have major long-term impacts on the company. They can either invest big-time to revamp the company, or they are going to slowly wither away. This week has proven they need to rethink their model and practices to stay alive.

If this current meltdown represents some sort of existential crisis for Southwest, and they end up radically reducing their MDW footprint, I'd expect other LCC's like Frontier or Allegiant to eat up that unused capacity.

With chicago's huge amount of O&D traffic, MDW is a natural fit for any domestically-oriented LCC.

My understanding is that the the existing B->C tunnel will remain as-is. The new tunnel from OGT to S1 and S2 will have space for a people mover but it will not be constructed until S3 and S4 are built, which is a later phase that is dependent on hitting passenger targets. So in the first phase the tunnel from OGT to S1 and S2 will be pedestrian only, with the OGT to S1 having a sterile corridor to allow for international arrivals at S1. S2 will be domestic only.

The walk from the far tip of S2 to the tip of B concourse will be quite the hike but United could always run a shuttle bus if needed.

I agree - And would welcome that. Get the shitty LCC's out of O'hare so it can cater to the United/Deltas of the world. Hoping the OGT has new international lounges. That would be amazing.

I’d imagine there will be a new Star lounge and a new One World lounge. I’m more surprised there aren’t any new lounges in T5 besides Delta. Qatar, Emirates, Etihad and any other Star and OW carriers that only use T5 have horrible lounge experiences. T5 was justified for needing more lounges and Delta is it that I know of.

Also to a previous post, do you know of any airport in the world where someone would have to walk from the end of a 2nd satellite concourse to the main baggage claim (or at least that distance) or god forbid connect to a flight at B17?

Has an airline ever had this bad a meltdown that appears to be largely self-inflicted? Maybe they'll rethink their insane 5-chained-flight itineraries and move to a more standard hub and spoke model, which would... be better for MDW?

I'm stuck on hold with Southwest after thy canceled my flight back to Chicago tomorrow (along with 2/3 of their flights...) and for some reason won't let you make changes online if you have a lap child (because... that makes perfect sense?). I'm guessing I'd get back to Chicago from Reno faster via Amtrak than by rebooking, so I might end up getting my parents to drive me to SFO to fly United back to Chicago.... (Airfare for flights that would be reasonable to take for an infant from Reno over the next few days is predictably insane).

Not nice! You can’t do that. LCC is here to stay. They are not going anywhere! They always welcome. It’s free country. They are not leaving from O’Hare!

SWA has had some pretty bad IT meltdowns in the past, which this is sort of an extension of that (antiquated scheduling system). Then there was the year or so they tried to convince everyone including themselves they could turn planes in 20 minutes which was disastrous. I fly them as little as possible.

I don't see any reason that the LCCs should be exiled from ORD but I wouldn't mind sticking them all in their own terminal to keep their chaos contained. SWA is not going to move to hubnd spoke probaably ever or give up any MDW gates which they over utilize to begin with.

They rebooked me 4 (!!) days later. We'll see if that flight gets off the ground (and if my bags ever make it... Going through Denver so doubtful). 15,000 cancelled flights is... A lot of irate people. Probably over a million? Given that large portions of the country never fly, southwest will have to steeply discount fares to win back market share.

Now that United doesn't have change fees, and often has cheaper fares (even accounting for checked bags) without the boarding circus, really southwest's main advantage is that mdw is so much faster to get to than ord...

I feel for the people stuck, but I'm mainly a business or leisure traveler now - I would never dream of trying to fly somewhere during the holidays. I love flying Southwest out of MDW (esp since I live south of Madison St) and I haven't had any serious issues flying them over the past few years.

It seems like this kind of chaos is just par for the course now - it's Southwest taking the brunt this time, but next year it could be AA or United. Air travel at the holidays is just impossibly cursed - winter weather, airplanes, and huge travel volumes don't mix. I don't know why people even bother - use Zoom or FaceTime for the holidays, and then travel to see your loved ones at a different time of year.

Making it worse, the working-age people who tend to travel during the holidays are also the most sensitive to disruptions, since they have to travel within very narrow windows proscribed by their jobs and family obligations. For college students, seniors, etc a flight delay is less of a catastrophe.

I will stick with my Southwest Rapid Rewards account - maybe my miles will count for double if they lose a lot of business! Hopefully they find a way to fix their tech issues and come out stronger.

Ok - Yes.... Storms impact air travel, but SW clearly did far far far worse than the other airlines. If we were talking about Frontier or Spirit, then it wouldn't even be a news story because people expect those carriers to be shitty. But SW has this reputation behind it as being the cool low cost airline that will deliver the same level of service as United/Delta or better. That image has now officially been shattered.

I flew SW out of O'Hare in May and had a horrible experience with them. They've clearly lost their way, and unless they change things internally (and fast), it will start to reflect on their bottom line. If I was one of the customers that got shit canned during this, I would never fly with SW ever again. Scale that out across thousands upon thousands of travelers, and you have a business problem.

Anyways - Tying this back to Steely's comment..... I could see MDW becoming a mini-hub for LCC airlines that may not want to pay the fees of O'Hare to operate out of if SW begins to free up some gates under a reduced capacity in the future.

Knowing that any speculation is all guesswork without any deep industry insider knowledge I could very well see after all this Southwest adopting a more hub-spoke configuration, even if still not to the extant of its rivals. The potential cogs in having crews dispersed all over the nation just lends itself to a cascade of issues system wide when negative conditions arise.

If that scenario plays out my guess is Southwest will increase their position at Denver to an even greater degree, with Denver being THE major SWA hub. SWA's has effectively maxed themselves at Midway which means if they do centralize they likely would have to grow at an expanded O'Hare. I also wouldn't be at all surprised to see Delta uptick an increased presence at O'Hare. These two moves would in fact push the other LCC's to Midway filling up abandoned SWA's slots at Midway.

Man, I know DEN is growing, but I just don't understand how it works well as a hub. It's obviously in the middle and has lots of capacity. But it's also really far from where everyone lives and where most people are going. STL > MDW > CLE or something like that makes sense. STL > DEN > MSP seems like a nightmare. Obviously OKC > DEN > SLC is a lot more like the Midway routes Southwest flies now, but there's just a lot fewer of those passengers.

No large US airline operates out of just a single hub... they have a network of hubs that facilitate convenient connections throughout the country. Denver is a great hub for East <-> West connections which is a ton of traffic. It's not meant for STL-XXX-CLE. It's also the only city in its region that could support a large hub. SLC is technically a Delta hub, but a pretty small one... especially compared to DEN. Denver is probably the best hub city in the country because there is simply no alternative... which is why 3 airlines have a hub there. I could see it surpassing ATL in the next decade or two.

Southwest already has de facto hubs to facilitate connections, they are just also willing to fly nonhub to nonhub if demand warrants it. That practice (along with many others.. it seems) is what put them in a worse situation than the other airlines.

Looks like Terminal 5 had its official "opening" ceremony the other day:

https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news...l-5-extension/

New concessions will still take a while to go in, along with new art installations. According to the press releases, there are new security checkpoints. Has anyone noticed this? The last time I flew out of 5 at the end of October, the security checkpoints still seemed very shitty and temporary.

Also some fun tidbits on how we performed this past year:

https://www.dailyherald.com/news/202...ound-from-2021

Not sure if this closing of the gap with Atlanta is a blip in year-to-year noise, or part of a trend where we may be able to close the gap. I suspect eventually we will get there after the expansion is complete. Atlanta is going to struggle to expand in the long run given they just don't have the space O'Hare does - https://www.ajc.com/business/airport...MF9YyKcnb9ogN/

When you do a Google Map comparison between O'Hare and Hartsfield-Jackson, it really stands out just how massive the airfield of O'hare is. Not just in terms of runways, but the vast amount of space O'hare has moving forward now to build in the long-run.

Other than Delta I’m really surprised there are no new lounges going in. A lack of gates, more retail, and space for lounges from the airlines were the needs stated for the T5 expansion.

I think part of the problem is two fold:
1 - The only two major domestic carriers in T5 are Southwest and Delta, and they are only in T5. Southwest doesn't do lounges, and Delta invested into a really nice one there. That tells me Delta plans to be in there for a long time. My hope is Southwest at some point reduces their presence and Delta expands to take up some of that space. But that's mostly because I despise SW. If you look at United, they are investing into new lounges (https://simpleflying.com/united-airl...ounge-chicago/), just not in T5. They operate a few international flights into T5, but I don't think they have any sort of justifiable presence there to justify a lounge. American isn't sitting well these days, so they probably don't want to spend money where they don't have to.

2 - I suspect many of the international carriers are going to wait until the Global Terminal begins construction in a few years to invest into their own lounges there. Why build out a shiny new lounge in T5 if you plan on moving your flights to the new GT?

O'hare's first Chick-fil-A!!!

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/rest...lU0nH54SccFcLM

No thanks...I don't like a side of hate with my chicken.

From what I personally know, the re-design is much more refined that this 3D blocking diagram, but the overall massing is kinda sorta similar, fwiw.

I was in Cali last week, flew into LAX from Midway, and flew back home from San Jose (SF had no decent flight times). LAX is massive but kinda messy, both in terms of connectivity and the overall design of the facility. San Jose is much smaller, but really efficient, easy to get to, and just a much more pleasant experience.

O'Hare is so massive, that when you get there, it really feels like a completely different environment, whereas airports like LAX and San Jose feel much more integrated into their respective locations/surroundings. As O'Hare keeps expanding, it's going to feel even more massive...hopefully, one day soon, they'll also have commercial space flights out of there :D

LAX is ridiculous. It takes like an hour to get dropped off there...

Daily mail is a trash rag obviously but what a few people have complained about here seems to be catching attention. Not a great look.. why does the city allow it to continue? There's plenty of places the city doesn't allow the homeless to camp so I don't understand why they decided O'Hare was a good place for this...

^Yeah. . . this is an utter disgrace. . . there's nothing more I can say about it. . .

. . .

Flew in a couple days ago. seems like theyre trying to keep them contained to terminal 2 as i got turned around and ended up in terminal 3 before heading back to 1 and didnt see any homeless people in 1 and 3.

Not sure what level of authority LL has here, but she needs to address this now.

And if not her, someone needs to be held accountable. Homeless people absolutely not be allowed to camp out indoors at O'Hare.

Again, There should be zero tolerance.

LL has certainly done everything in her power to guarantee she won't be re-elected. Just hope not too many more fires are started before she leaves office.

If you think bad publicity is going to disappear with a new administration, I’ve got bad news for you. I think those of us who live in the city are far more concerned with quality of life than the #10 trending topic on Twitter.

I care a lot less about the bad publicity going away than I do the growing piles of homeless at the airport.

If the mayor has the authority to clean it up and enforce a no camping ban at the airport, then she needs to do it now.

I just moved back to Chicago, living in NYC the last 10 years, the homeless at ORD and the homeless on the redline is out of control....

Why does such a relatively minor issue (homelessness is a huge issue, but homelessness at O'Hare is easily fixable) have to blow up in the national media before she pays attention and does something? This issue has been discussed here for months now and her response to all the media attention is to basically plead ignorance. She's now saying its unacceptable and will be cleaned up... great... why did it get to this point in the first place? Just clueless. She's probably also completely ignorant to the CTA issues... having never stepped foot on a CTA bus or train in her life.

How else do you think she will hear about it? You think she knows about everything? My guess is Chicago police need the resources elsewhere instead of outside security at O'hare. The best way to handle this is further fund Chicago airport authority from gate fees and allow them weapons to take over not just the other side of security and handle the entire terminal.

If it was not for the news report [ “Dystopian Homeless Encampments Overtake Chicago’s Airports.”] nothing would have happened.
I'd like to know how they pass screening. What do they mean "they" are letting them back in? Who is "they". I want to know who approved of this.




https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-ha...lori-lightfoot

Mayor vows to remove unhoused people from O’Hare as more seek shelter at airport

Lightfoot said Thursday that it’s a security risk to allow homeless people to stay at O’Hare. But a law enforcement source said that starting this week, additional police has been dedicated to offering services to homeless people — and removing those who don’t accept the help.

By Fran Spielman, Tom Schuba, Neil Steinberg and Emmanuel Camarillo Feb 16, 2023, 8:24pm CST

Advocates and workers say the number of unhoused people that sleep or take refuge at the airport has increased substantially this year.

In remarks to reporters Thursday, the mayor acknowledged the seriousness of the problem — which she said was different than encampments beneath viaducts, in parks and elsewhere on city streets — even as she argued that the conservative media had blown the issue out of proportion.

“We have taken and will continue to take the steps that are necessary to move people out of the airports,” she said. “The airports are a very different place than on the street under an underpass.”

As a secure location, O’Hare does not allow members of the public to be at the airport unless they are flying in or out or work there. Chicago police and the city Department of Aviation have said “we absolutely, fundamentally cannot have people sleeping in our airports who are homeless. That is unacceptable,” the mayor said. “We’re gonna continue within the bounds of the law to do what is necessary to provide those folks with support —but elsewhere. They can’t be in our airports.”

...

Stephan Koruba, a nurse-practitioner at the Night Ministry, said he and another nurse-practitioner were at O’Hare for three hours Sunday, providing medical care at the request of Haymarket, and found far more people camping out there than before.

“It was way, way busier, three times what we saw before,” he said. “We were seeing people we knew from all over the city. The attractions are obvious — a roof over your head, relatively warm, restrooms.”

Koruba and his colleague saw 45 homeless people and treated 14 for wounds, parasites and substance abuse.

Koruba said he asked his clients why there were now more people living at O’Hare.

“They said, ‘They’re letting us back in,’” he said. “I don’t know if word got out that it’s a good place to be.”

...

There's no homeless people in the secure areas of the terminal. . . they get off the train and hang out in the common areas of Terminal 2 - lower level baggage area where there's access to the restrooms and plenty of space to lay on the floor or shuffle around trying to stay warm. . . no one is shooing them away because "not my job" :shrug:

. . .

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/...opez-backlash/

So it took Lopez going onto Fox News to finally get the mayor to respond to this problem.....

Also:

What steps exactly were taken, if any up to this press conference?

^The fact that it took a city alderman to go on Fox News just shows you that the LL administration is incompetent at managing the basic "optics" of that department. . . epic fail. . .

. . .

None. . . clearly!

. . .

Honestly, it’s cold out. This is the least of my worries as long as people aren’t being harassed. Not saying they shouldn’t find a better solution, but I’d much rather see people with the soles coming off their shoes in the corner of the airport than under a viaduct. Optics would not be my priority in this situation. Sorry if that bothers anybody.

Sorry but no.

Have you seen some of the photos? There's drugged out people passed out right in the middle of the hallways.

There's zero excuse for it. I'm totally ok with the city allocating a small set of resources to get these folks somewhere else, but we can't just let this happen.

^Yeah. . . this is completely unacceptable. . . almost all of these people have serious drug problems. . . they're not just down on their luck folks who can't get in out of the cold. . . they are a danger to themselves as much as they are to others aside from the obvious issue that it makes the city look bad. . .

. . .

Right... the city spends a ton of resources to help the homeless (sure, maybe there should be more or better targeting?) but when people are on drugs or have mental issues and refuse the help.. the answer can't be to throw up our arms and let them corral in our international airport. It baffles me that anyone can find this acceptable or make excuses for it.

I'm surprised Lightfoot didn't find a way to blame the airline passengers for this.

I agree with this partly, except that in those insecure locations in the airport, the homeless (along with criminals and the non-flying public) have access to the baggage claim area. This is unacceptable in my book and needs to be rectified ASAP. I am not sure about the number of baggage thefts from the baggage claim, but I am sure it is not zero (as that should be the goal).

There are certainly concerns about homeless people taking over public space anywhere and there are responsible ways to address this situation, but I'm certainly not concerned by the faux shock of Fox News and some forumers. I'm sorry if it upsets you, but nobody should be outside in freezing temperatures. People die every year from hypothermia so it's a bigger concern to me than optics. Welcome to Chicago. :cheers:

I know that! I’m aware! They are not supposed to be there. Airports is not safe. They need more help. This is not a shelter. They have to go to the city or housing agency. This is very bad. It could be worst! They have no home and no money. They have keep it out of airport property. Don’t let those homeless people to come at airport anymore. They will be arrested for trespassing charge.

Again - NO

I understand people need a place for shelter, but the airport is absolutely not an acceptable place for folks to just lay out in the middle of the hallway drugged out.

You're totally in the minority on this. It's not a "faux shock" - The photos speak for themselves. It's utterly insane that it's occurring. It's also totally gaslighting to suggest we shouldn't be all that upset about it. Not to mention - as noted by nomarandlee - It's a total safety hazard for incoming travelers.

No. . . you're totally missing the point. . . I assure you that none of us are Fox News afficionados and the "faux shock" is distracting from the real problem. . . you shouldn't have a situation like this at an International airport where people with serious drug and mental health problems are just roaming around harassing people, using the common areas as toilets, sleeping on the floors or just stinking up the place. . .

Mark my words, it's just a matter of time before someone crawls through the baggage handling beltway into the secure parts of the terminal and causes a REAL problem for themselves or others. . . then you'll have a Fox News story that all the networks will report. . .

Fucking rediculous!

. . .