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^^ yeah, exactly. No one is trying to slight LA here. Nor anywhere else.
I think Phoenix is an interesting case when looking at American cities that have become very large in the past 50 years or so. |
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But they are still orders of magnitude (literally) larger than Phoenix's. For the very reasons, both you and I have stated. |
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Phoenix is particularly notable as it is the only MAJOR metro that was built nearly entirely in the car oriented era. |
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That said, how big do you realistically expect the core of a city in the middle of Texas or Georgia (or Arizona, Kansas, Montana, etc.) to be when they have endless room to grow? People have many different lifestyle preferences, and not everyone desires to build, live in or spend their recreational time in a large, bustling urban core like those in NYC, Philadelphia, etc. Again - Dallas is in TEXAS. The metro area is capable of extending west to Abilene (181 miles), south to Waco (95 miles), east to Longview (130 miles) and north to Oklahoma (100 miles). Do you honestly expect a major sunbelt city and international transportation hub that is constantly experiencing rapid explosive growth to be focused on building out a large core, the likes of cities in tightly-packed coastal cities? I mean I get that this is the internet, but you might want to come back down to reality. |
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Nothing “killed” downtown Phoenix. It just never had one to begin with. |
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each one is a similar magnitude of order larger than the previous, even if dallas is not directly in the middle. |
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It was a couple of blocks of a busy town center. Calling it a "bustling" downtown is just a-historical. You could argue that it lost its retail traffic as many main streets did but it never lost employment or tore down office buildings or apartment blocks. Most of our "urban renewal" was the tear down of single family homes outside of the "downtown" What was once some single or two story retail buildings were replaced with modern office towers. The pictures on the last page show the absolute extent of the pre ww2 city and it wasn't much at all, as you would expect for a small agricultural based city. |
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I'm not claiming it was "amazing", just that it was typical pre-war small-u.s.-city-esque. |
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God knows I've been critical of Phoenix in the past, but living outside it's sphere of influence (although there's hardly anywhere in the northern or western parts of the state that isn't influenced by Phoenix in some way, at least based on my experiences), I've had to learn and appreciate how much it drives economic activity throughout the rest of the state. Without Phoenix, for better or for worse, there is no Arizona. |
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Historical population - Phoenix MSA/Riverside MSA
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They're all still heavily office-slanted, plus a big dose of conventions. They're not rounded downtowns.
Their residential components are pretty minimal. For a big-city downtown, residential density should average multiple tens of thousands per square mile. |
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Too lazy to look the figures up, but assuming: 1. L.A. 2. Houston (would midtown be included?) 3. Atlanta (would midtown be included?) 4. Dallas (would uptown be included?) |
You can look things up by census tract. But D/H/A would have pretty low numbers in the 2018 estimates, higher than 2010 but still very low. LA would be higher but still not that high (in contrast to Koreatown etc.).
Someone could do an exercise of how many tracts they can stitch together including their downtowns with at least a decent average density, but the numbers will be pretty low. |
You don't have to look up Houston's numbers to see that the downtown residential population is still fairly low. There are more homeless and vagrants shuffling around than anyone else after business hours and nightlife is pretty dead unless there's an event or game. There are several towers recently completed with more going up and businesses to cater to them but we are at least a decade away from a respectable downtown population.
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