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-   -   Southwest Coffee Talk (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173766)

Tito714 Aug 7, 2010 7:43 PM

hoover, why not have advertisment on top of the garage majal, so that we can have glass planels, and also getting rid of those awful pictures on the exterior of the baseball players would be a plus as well.

John. that really sucks, that's why i park at the cityscape garage when i go, it's further but i don't get stuck in traffic. unfortunalty you don't have a choice.

HooverDam Aug 7, 2010 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tito714 (Post 4939153)
hoover, why not have advertisment on top of the garage majal, so that we can have glass planels, and also getting rid of those awful pictures on the exterior of the baseball players would be a plus as well.

I guess that would be oK in the short run. I just don't want any money put into the Mahal in fear that it would give it another reason for existence. Its truly one of the worst things in Downtown and the sooner its demolished the better.

plinko Aug 8, 2010 12:03 AM

I don't particularly care for the Garage Mahal either, but don't you think that the garage between AWA and BOB is far worse? Imagine the really creative mixed use project that could sit on that block...

HooverDam Aug 8, 2010 8:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plinko (Post 4939364)
I don't particularly care for the Garage Mahal either, but don't you think that the garage between AWA and BOB is far worse? Imagine the really creative mixed use project that could sit on that block...

That one only takes up 1 square block (not 2 like the Mahal) and has retail along the North side. As garages go, its OK. Id love it to have retail on all sides, but most garages in Phx don't even have retail on 1 side, so its good compared to them.

Plus if JSED ever did happen it would likely get wrapped in retail.

E: Also, a garage I hate as much as the Mahal or maybe even more is the Chase Tower garage bounded by VB/Monroe, 1st/2nd. Its among the many reasons I dislike the Chase Tower and think its embarrassing that its our states tallest/most prominent skyscraper. That garage is particularly ugly, even for a parking garage, It has no retail or anything useful or worthwhile at ground level. The sidewalks around it are mostly barren of trees, dirty, and covered in dried up gum blobs. It also cuts off the Herberger and St Marys Basillica area from the Western half of Downtown.

HooverDam Aug 23, 2010 9:37 AM

Hey check out these neat posters:

http://theheadsofstate.myshopify.com/


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/004...png?1282413412

Im kinda surprised to see PHX included in their first batch. Never mind the skyline isn't perfectly accurate and the mesas are more reminiscent of Northern Arizona/Monument Valley.

It says Phoenix, its got something that looks like Camelback, Im orderin' the darn thing :P

Leo the Dog Aug 23, 2010 4:08 PM

This is an article about housing in general, but it did mention Phoenix, so I decided to post in SW coffee talk to see how others feel about PHX housing situation.

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38811394

Quote:

Housing Fades as a Means to Build Wealth, Analysts Say

Published: Monday, 23 Aug 2010 | 9:44 AM ET
By: David Streitfeld

Housing will eventually recover from its great swoon. But many real estate experts now believe that home ownership will never again yield rewards like those enjoyed in the second half of the 20th century, when houses not only provided shelter but also a plump nest egg.

The wealth generated by housing in those decades, particularly on the coasts, did more than assure the owners a comfortable retirement. It powered the economy, paying for the education of children and grandchildren, keeping the cruise ships and golf courses full and the restaurants humming.

More than likely, that era is gone for good.

“There is no iron law that real estate must appreciate,” said Stan Humphries, chief economist for the real estate site Zillow. “All those theories advanced during the boom about why housing is special — that more people are choosing to spend more on housing, that more people are moving to the coasts, that we were running out of usable land — didn’t hold up.”

Instead, Mr. Humphries and other economists say, housing values will only keep up with inflation. A home will return the money an owner puts in each month, but will not multiply the investment.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, estimates that it will take 20 years to recoup the $6 trillion of housing wealth that has been lost since 2005. After adjusting for inflation, values will never catch up.

“People shouldn’t look at a home as a way to make money because it won’t,” Mr. Baker said.

If the long term is grim, the short term is grimmer. Housing experts are bracing themselves for Tuesday, when the sales figures for July will be released. The data is expected to show a drop of as much as 20 percent from last year.

The supply of homes sitting on the market might rise to as much as 12 months, about twice the level of a healthy market. That would push down prices as all those sellers compete to secure a buyer, adding to a slide that has already chopped off as much as 30 percent in home values.

Set against this dismal present and a bleak future, buying a home is a willful act of optimism. That explains why Adam and Allison Lyons are waiting to close on a $417,500 house in Deerfield, Ill.

“We’re trying not to think too far ahead,” said Ms. Lyons, 35, an information technology manager.

The couple’s first venture into real estate came in 2003 when they bought a condo in a 17-unit building under construction in Chicago. By the time they moved in two years later, it was already worth $50,000 more than they had paid. “We were thinking, great!” said Mr. Lyons, 34.

That quick appreciation started them on the same track as their parents, who watched the value of their houses ascend for decades. The real estate crash interrupted that pleasant dream. The couple cannot sell their condo. Unwillingly, they are becoming landlords.

“I don’t think we’re ever going to see the prosperity our parents did, but I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom either,” said Mr. Lyons, a manager at I.B.M. “At some point, you just have to say what the heck and go for it.”

Other buyers have grand and even grander expectations.

In an annual survey conducted by the economists Robert J. Shiller and Karl E. Case, hundreds of new owners in four communities — Alameda County near San Francisco, Boston, Orange County south of Los Angeles, and Milwaukee — once again said they believed prices would rise about 10 percent a year for the next decade.

With minor swings in sentiment, the latest results reflect what new buyers always seem to feel. At the boom’s peak in 2005, they said prices would go up. When the market was sliding in 2008, they still said prices would go up.

“People think it’s a law of nature,” said Mr. Shiller, who teaches at Yale.

For the first half of the 20th century, he said, expectations followed the opposite path. Houses were seen the way cars are now: as a consumer durable that the buyer eventually used up.

The notion of housing as an investment first began to blossom after World War II, when the nesting urges of returning soldiers created a construction boom. Demand was stoked as their bumper crop of children grew up and bought places of their own. The inflation of the 1970s, which increased the value of hard assets, and liberal tax policies both helped make housing a good bet. So did the long decline in mortgage rates from the early 1980s.

Despite all these tailwinds, prices rose modestly for much of the period. Real home prices increased 1.1 percent a year after inflation, according to Mr. Shiller’s research.

By the late 1990s, however, the rate was 4 percent a year. Happy homeowners were taking about $100 billion a year out of their houses, which paid for a lot of good times.

“The experience we had from the late 1970s to the late 1990s was an aberration,” said Barry Ritholtz of the equity research firm Fusion IQ. “People shouldn’t be holding their breath waiting for it to happen again.”

Not everyone views the notion of real appreciation in real estate as a lost cause.

Bob Walters, chief economist of the online mortgage firm Quicken, acknowledges that the recent collapse will create a “mind scar” just as the Great Depression did. But he argues that housing remains unique.

“You have to live somewhere,” he said. “In three or four years, people will resume a normal course, and home values will continue to increase.”

All homes are different, and some neighborhoods and regions will rebound more quickly. On the other hand, areas where there was intense overbuilding, like Arizona, will be extremely slow to show any sign of renewal.

“It’s entirely likely that markets like Arizona will not recover even in the 15- to 20-year time frame,” said Mr. Humphries of Zillow. “The demand doesn’t exist.”


Owners in those foreclosure-plagued areas consider themselves lucky if they are still solvent. But that does not prevent the occasional regret that a life-changing sum of money was so briefly within their grasp.

Robert Austin, a Phoenix lawyer, paid $200,000 for his home in 2000. Five years later, his neighbors listed a similar home for $500,000.

Freedom beckoned. “I thought, when my daughter gets out of school, I can sell the house and buy a boat and sail around the world,” said Mr. Austin, 56.

His home is now worth about what he paid for it. As for that cruise, “it may be a while,” Mr. Austin said. Showing the hopefulness that is apparently innate to homeowners, he added: “But I won’t rule it out forever.”

This story originally appeared in the The New York Times

P_man796 Aug 25, 2010 3:40 AM

Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

SunDevil Aug 25, 2010 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 4956600)
Hey check out these neat posters:

http://theheadsofstate.myshopify.com/


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/004...png?1282413412

Im kinda surprised to see PHX included in their first batch. Never mind the skyline isn't perfectly accurate and the mesas are more reminiscent of Northern Arizona/Monument Valley.

It says Phoenix, its got something that looks like Camelback, Im orderin' the darn thing :P

wow, that poster is already sold out.

HooverDam Aug 25, 2010 5:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil (Post 4958834)
wow, that poster is already sold out.

Wow, glad I ordered one when I did then. Thats good that it sold out quick, hopefully that means they'll make a 2nd run of it, and eventually more Phoenix/AZ posters down the road. Looks like the San Fran and Phoenix ones are the only ones sold out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_man796 (Post 4958806)
Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

Welcome!

Tito714 Aug 25, 2010 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_man796 (Post 4958806)
Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

Welcome to the forum! What's your actual name? I probablly had you for some classes last year.

JKPhx Aug 25, 2010 7:13 AM

Random question? Does anyone know what the city plans to do with the south building of the convention center? If it is still used is it going to continue being used? Has it been remodeled or anything?

HooverDam Aug 25, 2010 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKPhx (Post 4958959)
Random question? Does anyone know what the city plans to do with the south building of the convention center? If it is still used is it going to continue being used? Has it been remodeled or anything?

Its still used quite a bit for Conventions. The interior has been remodeled and updated to match as closely as possible the North and West buildings. We shot the Phoenix segments of "So You Think You Can Dance" in there as well as in the Symphony Hall.

I think eventually down the road some point in the distant future the plan is to demolish it and replace it with a large building of the style of the North and West buildings.

Vicelord John Aug 25, 2010 3:24 PM

South building carries a lower cost which is why its the busiest building.

P_man796 Aug 25, 2010 9:10 PM

My name is Paul Giordano. Are you a student yourself or like a grad student or TA?

Tito714 Aug 25, 2010 10:49 PM

Okay Paul, i know you. You hung out alot with Mike. We played volleyball at Barrett's one time. My name is Humberto, I hung out with Francisco, Miguel, and Aaron.

HooverDam Aug 27, 2010 2:03 AM

Quote:

County targeting pool parties at Valley resorts
Maricopa County cracks down on pool parties at swanky Valley resorts, a popular method of boosting hotel revenue during slow sum
by Megan Finnerty - Aug. 26, 2010 06:21 PM
The Arizona Republic
Admission no longer is free, and there will be no more drinking in the pool.

Which, it might go without saying, is largely the point of the splashy parties packing the pools at upscale resorts.


For three summers, metro Phoenix resorts and hotels have boosted revenue during the slow summer season by tuning into MTV Beach House-style bacchanals, with DJs, signature cocktails and live bands. This summer saw a substantial increase in the number of parties.

Trendy destinations such as the W Scottsdale Hotel and Residences and the InterContinental Montelucia Resort fought the seasonal drop in occupancy and room rates by luring locals to spend on daybed and cabana rentals and $10 to $14 cocktails.

Maricopa County's Environmental Services Department has been scrutinizing the parties largely because of their success - over-capacity crowds and alt-rock acts perched on the edge of pool decks.

The health and safety issues they found will mean fundamental changes to the parties. Resorts that had found a popular moneymaker are scrambling to make changes that will keep county regulators satisfied and keep the pool decks full.

For weeks, representatives of the county office, which licenses the businesses to operate the pools and serve guests, have been making unannounced visits. They have met with area hotel and resort managers, reviewing the regulations that come with their semi-public pool licenses, the kind common for hotels, motels, condo and apartment complexes. The result: Stepped-up enforcement of regulations that were part of the county code already.

So no more drinking, or eating for that matter, in the pool.

No more music stages abutting the pool.

No more open-to-the-public parties, except ones already booked.

No more free entry and oversized crowds.

"In the last two years the scale and grandeur of the parties has picked up, and we are just trying to help the facilities understand the public-health impact before we start focusing on enforcement," said John Kolman, director of the Maricopa County Environmental Services Department.

Kolman said inspectors have reminded managers to monitor pool capacity, to double-check that rescue equipment is always visible, to keep lounge chairs, stages and other structures 4 feet from pool edges, and most crucially, to stop inviting the public to their events.

Inspectors will continue to make unannounced checks through September, the traditional end of the pool-party season.

The day rate

Hotels are already making changes.

At the Hotel Theodore in Old Town Scottsdale, formerly the Mondrian Scottsdale, this means general manager John Reynolds has stopped advertising his Saturday and Sunday pool parties as aggressively, and has started charging a $20 day rate for use of the hotel's pool, gym and other facilities, $10 of which serves as a food and drink credit.

"We've gotten some flack on it," he said. "We've seen a decrease in the number of people coming through."

Reynolds launched a $59 day rate, for which guests can use a room from 11 a.m. until the party is over at 6 p.m., or they can pay $30 more for the whole night.

"We've been policing the drinking policy, and it's just been a lot of yelling," joked party-marketing consultant Steve Kushnir, who helps with the Hotel Theodore parties. "We've kind of made it more package-driven so it's a total experience at the hotel, not just a party."

The InterContinental Montelucia Resort currently charges $50 to hang out by the pool on Saturdays and Sundays, and $40 of that goes to food and beverage. A spokeswoman from the resort said they've always discouraged drinking in the pool and that they will continue to enforce those health regulations.

Appeals expected

Many resort pool parties are already limited to guests who've rented rooms and their friends, like the ones at the Hotel Valley Ho, or to guests who've purchased tickets, like the ones at the Clarion Hotel Scottsdale. These locations will be minimally affected by the stepped-up enforcement.

But at the W Scottsdale, general manager Leon Young said he's seen real revenue losses since he started enforcement. He has, however, seen room sales go up slightly.

His hotel has made a name for itself hosting buzzy daytime bashes and nighttime swim parties, serving pool-friendly drinks like frozen creamsicle cocktails or bottles of vodka with Gatorade on ice. Now, the second-floor pool will be open only to those who rent cabanas, day beds or rooms.

"Certainly, I can understand you don't want to be floating next to a piece of lunch meat," Young said. "But if we follow the rules about no glass near the pool, I don't see why we couldn't allow some drinks in the pool."

Young is optimistic the county will be open to revisiting the regulations to create variances that would allow resorts and hotels to pursue party profits.

"We are rooms-focused in spring and peak season, but in summertime, it really is about the events and promotions you can organize to bring people in," Young said.
Jesus fucking Christ, this is why we can't have nice things. I don't ever go to these pool parties, its not my thing. But who's it hurting Maricopa County? The answer is fucking no one. The hotels desperately need ways to make money in the blistering summer weather, they've found one, and you've gone and pissed on it. I'm so sick of 'leaders' whether they be at the City, County or State level fucking things up in the name of 'safety' or some other horse shit when no one is being adversely affected.

JKPhx Aug 27, 2010 2:16 AM

that is absolutely ridiculous...this city is never going to gain a good reputation besides good weather and hiking if these old conservative cranks dont find something better to do before they die.

Don B. Aug 27, 2010 1:53 PM

My e-mail to the director of that department this morning:

Dear Ms. Krause:

I read with dismay the article in today's Arizona Republic, a section of which is excerpted below. Please note I do not work for the hotel or lodging industry, nor do I attend any of these parties. However, I think what your department is doing is just illogical and counter-intuitive. Phoenix is in the worst recession since the Great Depression; tourism is down and 400,000 Phoenicians, including myself, have lost their jobs since the recession began in 2006. Yet all we can do is hurt businesses trying to survive in this economic downturn? Sometimes I think even Arizona's notoriously laissez faire government can go too far. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Since when does the government have the power to regulate such minute details as a simple pool party? In the law, the accompanying legal concept is called assumption of the risk, which can serve as a complete bar to recovery. In another words, if you voluntarily attend a party and get sick, well then you assumed the risk and deserve the result. Don't want to incur that risk? Then stay home. Life is full of risks, and even a nanny-state government cannot eliminate all of those risks.

I urge you to reconsider these onerous regulations. At this point, economic considerations trump almost everything. Getting people back to work should be the first priority of the government, not nitpicking at every little detail. It is this red tape which causes a lot of businesses to go under. Do we want to close up further hotels and businesses? I think this is most unwise. Phoenix is already teetering on the edge of a depression...to the point that growth has pretty much completely ground to a halt. In fact, there's growing evidence that Phoenix may be losing population for the first time in history.

Thank you for allowing me to comment on these issues.

Cordially,



Donald M. Burns
Phoenix, AZ 85020
(602) 999-7601

County targeting pool parties at Valley resorts

Maricopa County cracks down on pool parties at swanky Valley resorts, a popular method of boosting hotel revenue during slow summer

by Megan Finnerty - Aug. 26, 2010 06:21 PM

Admission no longer is free, and there will be no more drinking in the pool.

PHX31 Aug 27, 2010 3:49 PM

Hey Don, nice job. I'd like to send something similar, but don't have the writing skills.

The city/county/state seems to fuck up every good and organic thing that sprouts up in this city. These organic things are what make a city fun, interesting, and thrive. I'm thinking about:

1. The regulation of these pool parties.

2. The regulation of First Fridays

3. The regulation of street food/truck vendors

I'm sure there are more.

Leo the Dog Aug 27, 2010 4:39 PM

Don't you guys know that pool parties increase traffic and block views of Camelback? Of course they need to be regulated and/or shut down by government officials that know what's best for you...(sarcastic, of course).

Vicelord John, I'd like to hear your take considering you work in hotels.


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