SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (
-   General Development (
-   -   NEW YORK | Kingsbridge National Ice Center (

NYguy Aug 8, 2012 11:17 PM

NEW YORK | Kingsbridge National Ice Center
After Related's failure to get approval to turn the Bronx's Kingsbridge Armory into a shopping mall , other ideas have popped up. The latest proposal is for a 9 rink skating center.

NYguy Aug 8, 2012 11:24 PM

How Exactly Do You Cram Nine Ice Rinks Into a 95-Year-Old Armory, Even One as Big as Kingsbridge?


A consortium led by Mark Messier wants to transform the Kingsbridge Armory into a new ice sport complex called the Kinsbridge National Ice Center.

by Matt Chaban
August 8, 2012


Easy—just stack them on top of each other.

When Mark Messier first announced his intentions to build a new skating complex inside the Kingsbridge Armory, it sounded crazy. This is the Bronx, after all. When it was revealed there would be eight rinks in total, it sounded insane. But the Kingsbridge National Ice Center recently launched its social media campaign—what bid for a public project would be complete without one?—and on the project’s Facebook page are a number of models that show exactly how Mr. Messier and his team intend to pull off this wild engineering feat.

At the heart of the complex will be a main rink with 5,000 seats and Madison Square Garden-sized ceilings that go clear up to the the massive buildings roof. On either side of center ice will be four more, stacked two on top of each other. All of the rinks will be NHL or Olympics regulation size. There will also be some retail concessions, which are tentatively to be filled by local businesses, as well as 30,000 square feet of community space. The whole effort underscores just how massive the armory is in the first place.

The armory today, long vacant.

The plan calls for nine arenas to be built inside the massive former military structure.

A cutaway shows the main rink in the middle of the building, which has seating for up to 5,000 spectators

Check out those rafters—sure is nicer than MSG.

Inside the empty armory

Crawford Aug 11, 2012 12:31 AM

I really hope this proposal is selected.

The shopping mall proposal was decent, but this would be very unique, and would really redefine the area.

jd3189 Aug 11, 2012 12:58 AM

If NYC ever wins a bid for the Olympics, this could be one of the venues. In fact, there's a lot of areas already built that can be used as venues.

NYguy Aug 12, 2012 12:33 AM

I think this would be great for the Bronx. So much of the rest of the City gets "new things". Despite its size, the Bronx is often as forgotten about as Staten Island.
But this is not the Bronx of a few decades ago.

Video Link

Video Link

A little history on the Armory and the battle over the proposed mall...

Video Link

Video Link

And idea for an urban market...

Video Link

NYguy Aug 16, 2012 2:40 PM

The City expects similar proposals for another huge armory, this on in Brooklyn...
City Asks Developers to Transform Crown Heights' Huge Bedford Armory

August 15, 2012
By Sonja Sharp


After years of dreams, schemes and sweat, a plan to develop 50,000 square feet of Crown Heights' Bedford-Atlantic Armory finally went to potential developers Wednesday. Possible uses already envisioned include a climbing wall, a concert venue or an ice-skating rink.

"It's a long road ahead, but we're very excited to get to this point," said Seth Diamond, commissioner of city's homeless services department. "Today is really the beginning of the process."

A portion of the century-old building, whose imposing red brick turrets jut up from the intersection of Atlantic and Bedford avenues like the spires of a medieval castle, has long served as an assessment center for the department. Hundreds sleep there each night, while the enormous drill hall is used for storage. City officials and community advocates yearn to see that storage space opened up to the community, much like the Eighth Avenue Armory in neighboring Park Slope.

Wednesday's request for proposals was put out jointly by the New York Economic City Development Corporation and the DHS. "It’s a state and a national landmark, and it’s really an historic opportunity to do something with a very important building," Diamond said. "The point right now is to see what people might be able to do, what their dreams are for the space."

In June, Markowitz released a report full of potential uses for the nearby Bedford-Union armory, ranging from a rock-climbing gym to a theater. Proponents hope that with its nearly 100-foot-tall ceilings and prime location at the intersection of Crown Heights, Prospect Heights and Bedford-Stuyvesant, the Bedford-Atlantic armory will inspire equally creative uses. The city will host a site visit for potential developers on Wednesday, Sept. 12, 2012. The submission deadline is Oct. 19.

NYguy Aug 24, 2012 11:31 AM

Bronx Borough President Diaz urges city to approve plan to turn Kingsbridge Armory into ice sports center
Mark Messier and Olympic gold medalist Sarah Hughes join proposal

August 24, 2012
By Tanyanika Samuels


Hailing it as a major opportunity for Bronx youth, Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. called on the city to approve a proposal to turn the Kingsbridge Armory into a state-of-the-art ice sports center. Diaz was flanked by New York Rangers legend Mark Messier and Olympic figure skater Sarah Hughes outside the armory on Thursday. “We are urging the Economic Development Council and the Bloomberg Administration to hear the Bronx out, to hear our voices,” Diaz said. “We stand in unison to say ‘Please select (this) proposal so we can redevelop the Kingsbridge Armory as soon as possible.’”

The Kingsbridge National Ice Center (KNIC) would include nine hockey rinks, a 5,000-seat arena, 50,000-square-foot community space that would be open to area groups, and an education program for local youth. The project would bring an estimated 1,800 construction jobs and create about 200 permanent jobs that will pay a living wage, borough officials said.

“This development will allow our borough to realize the potential of the Kingsbridge Armory and to do so in a way that will offer the people of the Bronx a chance to earn a decent living,” Diaz said. “(The ice sports center) will open a new world of possibilities for the future generations of young people in the Bronx,” Messier said. “This project is not just about building rinks, it’s about creating opportunities for the kids in the Bronx.”

The ice sports center is one of two final proposals for the long-vacant fortress on W. Kingsbridge Road. The West Village firm Youngwoo & Associates proffered a project called “Mercado Mirabo” that would include a 4D movie complex and a town square-style market for local restaurants and businesses. In a statement, company officials said they were “very surprised and obviously disappointed” by the borough president’s endorsement and defended their plan as the option that would “offer the most significant benefits to the surrounding community and all the residents of The Bronx.”

A decision by the city could come as early as next month.

Busy Bee Aug 26, 2012 12:09 AM

The only problem I have with this proposal is that it won't have the seating capacity to host a televised event like a figure skating nationals, or a comparable event. If they could design and engineer the rink structures to maximize seating, maybe up to 9 or 10,000, and make the rink size and position as flexible as possible they maybe could host high profile skating events in the Bronx. That really would be cool to have televised ice shows coming from the Bronx. I'm also a bit disappointed no one proposed a velodrome. Oh well, I hope this succeeds and it's top notch quality. That first rendering looks amazing, like Richard Meier is involved or something.

Crawford Aug 26, 2012 3:32 PM


Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 5810747)
The only problem I have with this proposal is that it won't have the seating capacity to host a televised event like a figure skating nationals, or a comparable event. If they could design and engineer the rink structures to maximize seating, maybe up to 9 or 10,000, and make the rink size and position as flexible as possible they maybe could host high profile skating events in the Bronx. That really would be cool to have televised ice shows coming from the Bronx.

It would be cool, but there's no need. There are already five arenas in the area that can host professional ice events (Garden, Barclays, Nassau, Izod, Prudential). The reason this proposal makes so much sense is because there aren't enough rinks in the NYC area. People living in Manhattan have to do league matches at 3 AM in Chelsea Piers, or drive 40 miles out to somewhere in Jersey.

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 5810747)
I'm also a bit disappointed no one proposed a velodrome. Oh well, I hope this succeeds and it's top notch quality. That first rendering looks amazing, like Richard Meier is involved or something.

There's a very large velodrome that will be built in the new Brooklyn Bridge Park. Some very rich guy is paying for the whole thing.

easy as pie Aug 27, 2012 1:22 AM

man, 100% support for the ice proposal, i wonder if anyone has seriously considered talking with wang and the islanders' management about some sort of arrangement. would instantly become the nhl's most iconic arena.

J. Will Aug 27, 2012 3:10 AM

9 rinks is overkill. What would be better is 7 rinks. Instead of 2 stacked rinks, at one end they could have a large indoor pool with some small waterslides and what have you. Maybe even 5 rinks, with a pool at one end, and some sort of other indoor facility at the other end (climbing walls and such).

NYguy Aug 28, 2012 12:13 PM

Will pols kill another Bronx revival?

By Michael Benjamin
August 26, 2012


The Bronx is about to get another chance to lift the curse of the Kingsbridge Armory, with two new proposals to develop the site. But it will have to overcome stiff opposition by the local soviets that have thwarted commercial enterprise at the “people’s armory” for years. Only two years ago, recall, Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz’s insistence on a special minimum wage scuttled a plan for the armory by the Related Companies that promised 2,200 jobs........Fortunately, both Mayor Bloomberg and Diaz now appear determined to check off the armory as done on their “to-do” lists. And two promising proposals have emerged.

The first is the Kingsbridge National Ice Center — a plan for a world-class ice-hockey and skating-sports facility featuring nine rinks and an ice-sports-themed middle school. The second is an indoor Times Square-style commercial venture anchored by small retailers, a cineplex and a Crunch Gym. Either would mark a huge step forward for the borough. Yet, predictably, the Luddites are already vowing to fight any possible good news. Insiders, for instance, think the ice center will get the nod. If so, critics will charge that Bloomberg and Diaz greased the skids in favor of NHL legend Mark Messier and Olympic champion Sarah Hughes, who are behind the project.

The second bid, for the commercial center, comes from immigrant real-estate entrepreneur Young Woo — who certainly has the imagination and financial chops to make it a success. Like his planned Pier 57 redo, Young Woo’s Armory concept is an artsy open-air market with rental space for artists and small businesses. The plan revolves around a “zocalo,” or town square — a dynamic reflection of its host community. Two years ago, Forbes magazine described Young Woo as having a feel for the pulse of New York. The same can be said of his armory plan, which intends to capture the frenetic energy of The Bronx and transplant it indoors.
Bronx Borough President Backs Ice Rink Plan for Kingsbridge Armory

By Patrick Wall
August 23, 2012


Three years after helping defeat a plan to redevelop the long-vacant Kingsbridge Armory over wage concerns, Bronx Borough President Ruben Diaz Jr. declared his support Thursday for a new proposal that would transform the historic edifice into one of the world’s largest ice sports centers.

Key to his support is a promise by the developers that all of the center’s workers will earn $10 an hour with benefits, a so-called living wage, which the developer who proposed a mall for the site in 2009 refused to guarantee, leading the City Council to kill that plan.

In backing the nine-rink ice center, Diaz has rejected the other major proposal for the site — a mixed-use complex with a marketplace, food court, cineplex, gym, rock-climbing wall and business incubator. Young Woo and Associates, the developer of that plan, promised that some workers would earn a living wage, but not all. Diaz and others also worried that a project with many food and retail options would swipe customers from local merchants. The proposed $250 million ice center, on the other hand, would not compete with local merchants, and would offer a hockey program for at-risk youth, hire local workers and provide 50,000 square-feet of space for community groups, Diaz said.

Former New York Rangers player Mark Messier is a partner in the plan for the Kingsbridge National Ice Center.

NYC4Life Aug 29, 2012 6:53 PM

Interior rendering of the main rink:

NYguy Aug 30, 2012 5:28 AM

Nice shot, and good to see this building being put back to good use and to see it happening for the Bronx.

NYC4Life Sep 2, 2012 8:46 PM

Picture taken by me yesterday (9/1/12)

View of the Armory from the rarely photographed West 195th street and Reservoir Ave side. The school portion of the ice center would be located here.

NYguy Sep 3, 2012 12:51 PM

Some more pics of the huge building...

Daniel Case


sbarn Sep 3, 2012 3:54 PM

This building as an NHL arena would be mindblowing. But I definitely see the benefit of having multiple arenas to serve the community / NYC.

NYC4Life Sep 4, 2012 12:09 AM

The drill hall alone is said to be the size of Madison Square Garden.

NYguy Sep 5, 2012 3:11 PM

Video that talks up both plans....

NYguy Sep 13, 2012 3:05 PM

Community Group Wants a Say in Kingsbridge Armory Redevelopment

September 12, 2012
By Patrick Wall


While two would-be redevelopers of the Kingsbridge Armory duke it out, a local group long dedicated to the building’s renewal wants to make sure the community isn’t forgotten. The developers proposing a nine-rink ice sports center for the armory on Monday touted a study they commissioned, which predicts $88 million in annual economic activity for the city if the project is selected. On Tuesday, the developer behind a shopping and entertainment plan for the site announced new members of a “hip hop federation” whose idea for a hip-hop museum is part of the proposal.

And on Wednesday, members of the Kingsbridge Armory Redevelopment Alliance, the community coalition, are expected to gather outside the armory to remind developers of their demands for the site. “We want a developer who comes into our neighborhood and actually enlists the expertise of people who live in the community,” said Alice McIntosh, a leader of KARA, a coalition of labor, religious and community groups, which played a role in the defeat of an earlier plan to redevelop the site.

Chief among their demands is for the developer to sign an enforceable agreement that it honor any promises it makes to the community. That way, “when all the trucks and the fancy developers leave, we have something in writing that says they’re going to hold up their end of the bargain,” McIntosh said.

The developer behind the ice facility, called the Kingsbridge National Ice Center, promised that all the 170 full-time jobs at the center would pay a living wage. Youngwoo & Associates, the developer behind the mixed-use complex, called Mercado Mirabo, promised at least 170 living-wage jobs at the site, though they will not set wage requirements for all of their tenants.

Diaz announced his support of the ice center plan last month, citing the living-wage promise as one reason. Diaz also raised concerns that the merchants in Mercado Mirabo’s “creative market” would compete with local businesses. But KARA would consider such competition healthy, as long as the new merchants are not big-box stores, McIntosh said. “The borough president is one person,” she added. “He is not the voice of the community.”
As for the proposals themselves, McIntosh questioned whether Bronxites are really “ice people” who will use the rinks. But she also said that when many residents hear “market,” they think “flea.” Both developers said they have met multiple times with community members, including KARA.

All times are GMT. The time now is 2:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.