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Acajack Mar 15, 2020 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8862311)
No. What I am saying is we should be making decisions on how best to stop the spread of this disease based on science. This is a massive problem, the government has limited resources (people) and we should not be spending those limited resources on things that look good politically.

A few weeks ago there was a region of China that was the hot spot and the government of China locked down the area stopping anyone from getting out. The position of the government of Canada was if your a Canadian in this location, best thing to do is shelter locally and ride it out taking all precautions possible. A week or two later they decided to offer an some evacuation flights and put people in quarantine when they arrive. I think that was a reasonable respose.

As an example, the US has closed is boarders to people who have spent time in Portugal or Sweden (two fairly low infection places), while at the same time permitting people from Seattle and New York to travel freely. That makes no sense from a scientific perspective.

For this to be successful it has to be based on where the infected are and their state of health and not arbitrary political boundaries on a map or the logos on peoples passports.

That could be one sensible approach but we are not even doing that. As noted in this or thread as recently as 3 or 4 days we had people arriving in Montréal from Milan.

TheGreatestX Mar 15, 2020 5:05 AM

This site lists each country's travel restrictions. Canada's is weak to say the least.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/int...1580226297.htm

casper Mar 15, 2020 5:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatestX (Post 8862405)
This site lists each country's travel restrictions. Canada's is weak to say the least.

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/int...1580226297.htm

Interesting comparing what is on the IATA website with what is on the Canadian government website since it is quite different.

The IATA site claims restrictions are only associated with people from the Diamond Princess.

While at the same time the Government of Canadian website says....
Travelers from Hubei, China, Iran or Italy have to identify themselves. If they are health they are put in touch with local health authorities who will monitor them. If after an exam at the airport they are sick they will be sent to a local hospital for a more detailed example and quarantine.
Source: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...reponse.html#a

The self identification can be week, until you consider the computer system the government has has probably done some of this indemnification long before the aircraft lands. We know this because of news reports of people off the Westerdam cruise ship who were stop on the jet bridge, given a mask and taken for an exam.

Nearly all the countries on the list have one big exception. Their passport holders.

LO 044 Mar 15, 2020 6:00 AM

I'm with Legault on this one. I have no idea what our supposed government is doing. They are 5 steps behind the rest of the world. They're telling Canadians internally to stay away from each other but they're letting external flights in with external cases of the virus. Do they not understand that even if you show no symptoms upon arrival you may still have the virus and pass it on in a couple of days? And i love that CBC story of people arriving on the last flight from Italy only given some kind of paper showing what to do if they get a virus. Those people should be quarantined automatically.

Poland has grounded all LO flights for almost 2 weeks. The Czech Republic and Slovakia have closed their borders to foreigners. Same for Denmark. The list go on.

As usual private businesses will enforce the bleeding obvious. My workplace now has a policy that if you have flown anywhere internationally, you must self quarantine for 14 days. Many businesses are following suit. The government, though, can't figure out which airports should be used for passengers pfft. YVR and YYZ and that's it. There i've made the decision for the government.

Acajack Mar 15, 2020 11:14 AM

Legault is noticeably cautions about criticizing Trudeau and the feds too publicly and harshly.

Though it is not hard to read between the lines.

Yesterday he was pressed with questions from media about the feds especially re travel and borders, and this made him visibly uneasy.

Djeffery Mar 15, 2020 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 8862431)
As usual private businesses will enforce the bleeding obvious. My workplace now has a policy that if you have flown anywhere internationally, you must self quarantine for 14 days. Many businesses are following suit. The government, though, can't figure out which airports should be used for passengers pfft. YVR and YYZ and that's it. There i've made the decision for the government.

Yep, my employer has said anyone coming back into the country must stay away from work for 14 days. One guy posted on Facebook that his manager texted him on Friday while he (the employee) was still in England and told him not to return to work until the 30th at the earliest. Another guy at work mentioned on Friday he was planning to drive a family member to Detroit Airport yesterday. A manager in the room told him he wasn't coming back to work for 14 days if he leaves the country. He was like "I'm not even getting out of the car and I will over for an hour at the most". Didn't matter. That might be taking it to extremes though lol.

Acajack Mar 15, 2020 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8862558)
Yep, my employer has said anyone coming back into the country must stay away from work for 14 days. One guy posted on Facebook that his manager texted him on Friday while he (the employee) was still in England and told him not to return to work until the 30th at the earliest. Another guy at work mentioned on Friday he was planning to drive a family member to Detroit Airport yesterday. A manager in the room told him he wasn't coming back to work for 14 days if he leaves the country. He was like "I'm not even getting out of the car and I will over for an hour at the most". Didn't matter. That might be taking it to extremes though lol.

Would all this time off work be paid?

casper Mar 15, 2020 4:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 8862558)
Yep, my employer has said anyone coming back into the country must stay away from work for 14 days. One guy posted on Facebook that his manager texted him on Friday while he (the employee) was still in England and told him not to return to work until the 30th at the earliest. Another guy at work mentioned on Friday he was planning to drive a family member to Detroit Airport yesterday. A manager in the room told him he wasn't coming back to work for 14 days if he leaves the country. He was like "I'm not even getting out of the car and I will over for an hour at the most". Didn't matter. That might be taking it to extremes though lol.

That is the problem with this types of rules. That company probably would not have a problem with your friend goes to downtown Toronto and doing a bar crawl and visiting a couple clubs that night. Something that is higher risk than dropping someone off on an airport just over the boarder.

That company may even be paying for his gym membership and a-ok with him spending an afternoon on gym equipment that is shared with a large number of people.

This should all be driven by risk reduction not arbitrary rules.

casper Mar 15, 2020 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 8862431)
I'm with Legault on this one. I have no idea what our supposed government is doing. They are 5 steps behind the rest of the world. They're telling Canadians internally to stay away from each other but they're letting external flights in with external cases of the virus. Do they not understand that even if you show no symptoms upon arrival you may still have the virus and pass it on in a couple of days? And i love that CBC story of people arriving on the last flight from Italy only given some kind of paper showing what to do if they get a virus. Those people should be quarantined automatically.

Poland has grounded all LO flights for almost 2 weeks. The Czech Republic and Slovakia have closed their borders to foreigners. Same for Denmark. The list go on.

As usual private businesses will enforce the bleeding obvious. My workplace now has a policy that if you have flown anywhere internationally, you must self quarantine for 14 days. Many businesses are following suit. The government, though, can't figure out which airports should be used for passengers pfft. YVR and YYZ and that's it. There i've made the decision for the government.

I suspect the issue on deciding which airports is also tied to ensuring adequate hospital infrastructure and military faculties to maintain people under quarantine.

The major military establishments on the west coast are near Victoria and Comox. Not idea.

whatnext Mar 15, 2020 5:24 PM

Everybody plumping for a shutdown of air travel and borders better give a thought to what shortages that would cause. It is not just your baggage arriving in those Air Canada widebodies.

https://www.aircanada.com/cargo/en/shipping/fleet/

jmt18325 Mar 15, 2020 6:05 PM

I see people in this thread have given into fear. Travel restrictions have not been effective. Canada has seemed to handle and weather this well so far, with relatively few cases presenting.

Djeffery Mar 15, 2020 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8862568)
Would all this time off work be paid?

EI, unless you actually contract the virus, in which case you get paid by the insurance company.

nname Mar 15, 2020 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8862674)
Canada has seemed to handle and weather this well so far, with relatively few cases presenting.

Relatively few? Canada's case count had already passed the majority of Asian countries, and we're still increasing at 25% everyday.

It'll only take about 3 weeks before we become another Italy...

jmt18325 Mar 15, 2020 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8862729)
Relatively few? Canada's case count had already passed the majority of Asian countries, and we're still increasing at 25% everyday.

It'll only take about 3 weeks before we become another Italy...

IDK where you're getting your info from - we have 249 confirmed cases:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...infection.html

LO 044 Mar 15, 2020 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8862674)
I see people in this thread have given into fear. Travel restrictions have not been effective. Canada has seemed to handle and weather this well so far, with relatively few cases presenting.

Actually i'm not fearful of the virus as i am not in the typical risk category, old, male with respiratory problems.

Travel restrictions are effective but they should have been done 3 weeks ago not now. The virus is here. You're not going to get it from someone outside the country now, those people arrived 3 weeks or a month ago and have not self quarantined and have passed it on weeks ago. Travel restrictions aren't meant to eradicate the virus but to lessen it's spread. You're not getting the virus from someone that has been in Yellowknife or Gander for the past 6 months. Again it's those that arrived from China and Italy that have already passed it on to multiple people and THOSE people are the ones you're getting it from.

If the curve flattens in the next month then we have weathered it but cases continue to increase so we'll have to wait and see how effective we really were.

All Trudeau says is that nothing's off the table but there isn't anything on the table. The provinces and private businesses are making the decisions and putting things on the table.

nname Mar 15, 2020 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8862757)
IDK where you're getting your info from - we have 249 confirmed cases:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...infection.html

That doesn't include the 50 new cases from Ontario and Quebec today.

Just looking at Ontario's new cases for the past few days:

6 - 17 - 20 - 24 - 39

How much control do we still have?

The other provinces have yet to report the numbers today.

With 300 cases we're higher than every Asian countries except China, Iran, Korea, Japan, and Malaysia.

jmt18325 Mar 15, 2020 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8862766)
That doesn't include the 50 new cases from Ontario and Quebec today.

Those will get added later today. This is, at current, a relatively small number of the population. People need to follow advice and social distance, and not panic.

Quote:

With 300 cases we're higher than every Asian countries except China, Iran, Korea, Japan, and Malaysia.
No - we have more lab confirmed tests. That's the reality. The WHO has lauded Canada's response.

jmt18325 Mar 15, 2020 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 8862762)
Actually i'm not fearful of the virus as i am not in the typical risk category, old, male with respiratory problems.

Travel restrictions are effective

The US and Italian experience, as well as testimony from public health experts, show that not to be the case.

Quote:

The virus is here.
And has been here since at least late January.

Quote:

Travel restrictions aren't meant to eradicate the virus but to lessen it's spread. You're not getting the virus from someone that has been in Yellowknife or Gander for the past 6 months. Again it's those that arrived from China and Italy that have already passed it on to multiple people and THOSE people are the ones you're getting it from.
And that is why those people are subject to extra screening measures.

Quote:

All Trudeau says is that nothing's off the table but there isn't anything on the table. The provinces and private businesses are making the decisions and putting things on the table.
And that's as it should be. The federal government doesn't deliver healthcare or make most of the decisions around these issues.

nname Mar 15, 2020 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8862777)
The US and Italian experience, as well as testimony from public health experts, show that not to be the case.

Italy was more than a week too late to do anything much to contain the Lombardy cluster. They basically let the virus spread to the entire country before announcing shutdown.

The rest of Europe are also a week or two too late to restrict the spreading of virus from Italy and Iran. And now a full shutdown for the majority of the country is pretty much unavoidable.

US is about two weeks too late to impose any control from European side. Had they did it as quickly as they did with China, there won't be a thousands of cases down there (the shutdown from the China side also help in this case).

And Canada.... we haven't done anything yet. A family friend just came back oversea and was told that she don't need to self-isolate and is free to roam everywhere because she came direct from a relatively safe country.


Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8862774)
No - we have more lab confirmed tests. That's the reality. The WHO has lauded Canada's response.

If we look at South Korea's case, for example... we're ahead of most places but still very much behind South Korea. We have 1/10 of the testing done per capita as a whole... 1/2 for BC and Alberta, but Ontario is still very behind...

jmt18325 Mar 15, 2020 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 8862798)
Italy was more than a week too late to do anything much to contain the Lombardy cluster. They basically let the virus spread to the entire country before announcing shutdown.

Italy announced travel restrictions to China relatively early.

Quote:

US is about two weeks too late to impose any control from European side. Had they did it as quickly as they did with China, there won't be a thousands of cases down there (the shutdown from the China side also help in this case).
There's actually no evidence the travel restrictions helped.

Quote:

And Canada.... we haven't done anything yet.
That isn't true. Provinces have taken various steps, and the federal government has introduced extra screening for people from high risk areas.

Quote:

A family friend just came back oversea and was told that she don't need to self-isolate and is free to roam everywhere because she came direct from a relatively safe country.
That's sound public health advice.


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