What makes a small downtown "charming"?
 

Firstly, I'd like to say how great this forum is. I'm no architect, but in recent years I developed an interest in buildings and neighbourhoods. Particularly since I started working in commercial real estate. The Amazon second HQ announcement is what brought me to this site.

So many of the topics on this forum really appeal to me. And I rarely have anyone else to talk to about these things.

Though as with any forum, there is often too much bickering, though it does make for some good entertainment until it strays too far off topic and becomes tiresome. Gotta take the good with the bad!


I've passed through a lot of towns over the years on my various roadies through ON, QC and 35 different states. Plan on doing out east in the near future!

Only in the past couple of years have I really started to pay attention and appreciate the intracacies of each town and neighbourhood, good and bad. Whether it's the downtowns or old neighbourhoods of the GTA suburbs or the main streets of small towns I pass through or stop in.

Last couple of years did a lot of driving through the cottage countries of Kawarthas, Muskoka, Huron from Kincardine to Sauble, up the Bruce Peninsula from Wiarton to Tobermory, and Georgian Bay from Owen Sound to Parry Sound.

As well, took various routes to Erie that took me through different towns like Dunnville, Smithville, Delhi, Simcoe, Waterford, Beamsville, etc.

Then there's some very interesting towns from KW and Amish/Mennonite country through to Stratford and St. Mary's.

And also passed through a few towns along Lake Ontario through to Prince Edward County and Bay of Quinte.

So many fascinating little places. The downtowns that are most intriguing to me are on the two extremes.

Charming places like Elora, Stratford, St. Mary's, Niagara on the Lake. Or in the GTA: Downtown Oakville and Burlington, Bronte Village, Streetsville, Unionville, etc.

And real dumpy, almost abandoned places, which I won't name. Though that's more in the Rust Belt and Appalaicha. Not good for the residents but fascinating for visitors.

Now the most bland downtown I drove through, which was two weeks ago, was Lucknow, ON. It was neither charming nor dumpy. This is not a knock on the place. It was not run down at all. Just an observation. Some towns don't even have a downtown, and so there's nothing worth noting.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.96050...7i13312!8i6656


It got me thinking, what makes a downtown of a small town "charming"? Here's what I think of:

- Old, but well maintained buildings/houses with character. Including an old church.

- Very low vacancy.

- Unique and colourful storefronts/facades all different than the next one. Whether they're original or fake.

- Ivy growing up some buildings helps.

- Sidewalks are lined with trees/bushes, big or small.

- Lamp posts have hanging flower baskets.

- Not too many franchised stores but rather some individual cafes and boutique stores.

- Narrow streets, which adds to the intimacy. Bad for driving in bigger places but fine for small towns as traffic is not an issue.

- Cobblestone would help but most places are not Old Quebec or Montreal.

- Overhanging sign or banners. Like a sign with the town's name on it or banners promoting festivals. Even having some wires crossing over the street adds to the closeness and intimacy IMO.


Anything else to add?


And as for Lucknow, I understand it's a very small place and is surrounded by farms. And to add the things I mentioned above would cost money to implement and maintain. And I'm sure there are more important things to pay for.

But I wonder, if a place did want to add the trees, flowers, overhanging signs, etc., is it the town council that pushes that agenda forward to try and improve the town's image or the local BIA to try and attract more shoppers to Main Street?

Here's a pick of Lucknow I found. The church at the one end is somewhat interesting:

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS-2/hwy86-75_xlg.jpg




Edit: Later on saw this mural in Lucknow somewhere online. It's something.

http://googlesightseeing.com/wp-cont...ure-7-atrb.jpg
http://googlesightseeing.com/2013/04...of-ice-hockey/

- Old, but well maintained buildings/houses with character. Including an old church. Agreed.

- Very low vacancy.

Yup. I think that goes without saying.

- Unique and colourful storefronts/facades all different than the next one. Whether they're original or fake.

Agreed. Although,
I would hope that the modern buildings have facades that reflect the contemproary styles of that era. Even a building from the nadir era of architecture (for me that would be the late 1970s to the early 1990s) would be unabashedly representative of that time.

- Ivy growing up some buildings helps.

If you have a climate that is conducive to this, then, yes. The emphasis should be on the word 'some'. Ivy covering all buildings would be weird.

- Sidewalks are lined with trees/bushes, big or small.

I'll disagree with you on this one. Trees are kind of overrated on commercial streets.

- Lamp posts have hanging flower baskets.

That's a nice-to-have, but, again, I don't think you need to have flowers or shrubbery everywhere to make an attractive commercial landscape.

- Not too many franchised stores but rather some individual cafes and boutique stores.

Not sure I agree completely. If chains (not banks, though) choose to locate in the downtown of a small city, it is a sign that the downtown is an important retail destination in the region for people with disposable incomes. For example, Kingston - which has the best downtown of a city of its size in Ontario - has an Urban Outfitters and a Lululemon on Princess Street. I think chain retail follows vibrancy, rather than the other way around, so I'll say that it's more a symptom of a good downtown than a cause.

- Narrow streets, which adds to the intimacy. Bad for driving in bigger places but fine for small towns as traffic is not an issue.

Absolutely. North American downtowns would be so much better if their streets were narrower. I think that's part of the reason why we have an affinity for skyscrapers on this board. On a certain level, they make our wide, straight streets feel hemmed in, which, I feel, is something we gravitate to without even knowing.

- Cobblestone would help but most places are not Old Quebec or Montreal.

I personally don't care for cobblestone. In our climate, it's a major pain in the ass to shovel/plow, it's terrible for bicyclists, wheelchairs or strollers, and since our cities don't have a history of building cobblestone streets, it can come off as inauthentic and faux. Smooth stone paving systems are better IMHO. Honestly, I don't really care too much about what the sidewalk is made of. Concrete is fine if it's well maintained. The worst were those interlocking brick pavers from the 1980s that come loose or have weeds poking through them.

- Overhanging sign or banners. Like a sign with the town's name on it or banners promoting festivals. Even having some wires crossing over the street adds to the closeness and intimacy IMO.

Okay, I disagree with you here. I find vinyl banners to be so kitschy and provincial, and they ruin the vistas of our streets. They're primarily aimed at drivers, anyway.


Anything else to add?

I think making sure that the main intersection in your downtown has a different type of business on every corner is important.
If all 4 corners are occupied by banks, it will be dead. If all 4 corners are occupied by restaurants, that would be interesting, but it would only be active at restaurant hours. Having a clothes shop, a bank, a restaurant and maybe a bar/cafe would be ideal.

^^I'm a big fan of trees on main streets. I always like the trees around Gore Park in Hamilton (cut down a few years ago). Recently in Barcelona (not a small town obviously) I was struck by the large trees lining almost every street (they look like sycamores). A great example of trees making the downtown awesome is San Luis Obispo in California. The residential streets through the Prairies have a great canopy of elms, imagine if downtown streets had the same. I would like to see more trees in Ontario towns especially.

Charming in the quaint sense? Tourism. Almost everything aimed at tourists in small towns is charming.

In addition to the required level of urbanity and architectural beauty:

They have to be pretty quiet and predictable. Lots of immediate families together doing whatever. Tourists that are mainly older or amateur artists. They need some kitsch thing - a particular treat or souvenir that the town is known for.

Charming in the handsome sense tends to be more aesthetic.

In the charismatic sense, it has to tickle your personal fancies.

I can respect everything you said.

As for banners, no more than a couple would be my preference. And come to think of it, only for certain events. So on a temporary basis.

But I do like having a permanent sign or a "gateway". Even a simple structure that subtly lets you know you're now entering that neighbourhood.

Little Italy in Montreal is an example. Though I can't recall if that's right at the entrance or not:

https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...ttle-italy.jpg


Grandiose structures like Chinatown in Montreal or the one on Dundas in Mississauga (which is actually a plaza) fit well there but not so much for regular downtown.

https://www.potluckmtl.com/wp-conten.../chinatown.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/45...1acbf3bab1.jpg

As for Kingston, I've only been once, in 2011. Being the nicest downtown for a city that size is immediately what I thought as well. Being the former capital and having Queens is a great advantage.

True that franchises are a sign of a downtown's vibrancy. Though some places don't really have them as a strategic way of maintaining a certain old charm to the place and to perhaps not compete with individual restaurants. Such as Old Quebec and Tobermory.

As for really small towns, I guess some are too small to have any. I thought Lucknow would have a Hortons judging by my past trips where I saw similar downtowns with them. The closest one is 15 minutes away. No cafe, but there is a family restaurant.

I just noticed the remark about crediting images from the internet. I'm new here!

To add to my statement about trees. Some trees spaced out along the sidewalks I think looks very nice.

Residential neighbourhoods in Britain, outside of London, I find very fascinating due to their complete lack of trees.

The movies that take place in London tend to take place in fancy neighbourhoods, while for other cities, they take place in lower middle class and below. So I don't recall if there are many London area neighbourhoods like this.

I'm watching the very excellent movie "'71" again. It takes place in Belfast. And like so many of these neighbourhoods, nothing has changed from back then to now.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@54.59555...7i13312!8i6656

I assume this is because there was no thought of greenery during the industrial revolution and so cities were built around and took after "industry".

Downtown Cobourg is, mostly, tree-lined and I never really thought about it but I guess that is more of the exception than the rule.

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/BED4Y2/king...urg-BED4Y2.jpg

Nanaimo has a pretty good downtown (surprisingly).

I think urban street trees are important in the right context. In Spain, I can totally see why they're welcome; the urban landscape is hard and stoney and, for much of the year, the sun is relelentless. Trees soften the landscape and filter out the harsh rays of the sun.

We have the opposite conditions, though: our urban landscape is a bit too sprarse and suburban, and for much of the year we would welcome as much sunlight as possible.

I think residential streets should, as a general rule, have trees, no matter how dense they are. But our commercial streets should be unabashedly commercial.

There are other things that I don't like about street trees on commercial roads: they take up space that blocks passage; they attract birds that then drop shit everywhere; their roots lift up the sidewalk. They are expensive to plant, and difficult to maintain. It is a major operation to clear the streets and sidewalks of their fallen leaves in autumn. They pose a risk in the winter as storms bring down branches. They hide the ornamentation of ornate commercial buildings, which are often best seen from the opposite side of the street. In an environment like Barcelona, these things are definitely outweighed by their benefits, but not in small town Canada.

In addition to tourism, it also helps to have a theme, like this town in Washington:

https://goo.gl/maps/wcU7K5ygKi92

I'd be embarrassed to live in a place like that. I wonder when they started Teutonically tarting up the town? Must have been in the 1960s, I imagine? Couldn't really have been before then.

Edit: Heh heh, I'm on fire. It was 1962 according to Wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavenworth,_Washington

Have you been to Frankenmuth, Michigan?

Gawd no, but I know it's a kitschy Bavarian nightmare too. What's interesting about Kitchener is that it doesn't have any tacky German stuff going on at all, in spite of the fact that it has the largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich.

Seems like a fitting name.

Come to think of it, there are German-themed towns all over North and South America, but you don't really get this with other ethnicities, do you? I mean, there are no Italian-looking towns anywhere, or French, or Thai, or Jamaican, or what have you.

Why did this happen with Germans? Brazil and Argentina have the most Italian immigrants, but you don't have little Italian-themed towns anywhere, just German ones.

Weird.

They have lots of German immigrants as well, even Low German (Mennonite, etc.) Especially in Brazil:

https://www.mwc-cmm.org/content/newc...nonites-brazil

And Germans were, by far, the most populous immigrant group to the United States for many decades. It was even a common second language until the World Wars. Still today, it's one of the largest at 40+ million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Americans

I'm not surprised at all it'd be the Germans who are the kitsch village thing throughout the Americas. The Spanish influence is obvious, and all of southern Europe is so similar that anything Italian wouldn't really stand out all that much.

Welcome to the forum.

What? I was there last year and it was one of the worst downtowns I've seen in Canada. A weird mix of almost dilapidated buildings and freshly built buildings with no street life and nothing of interest to see other than the view of the water.

Yeah, I guess south American cities and towns already look Iberian enough, at least in the centres, anyway. With the German thing it seems like the perfect mix of enough immigrants combined with unique architectural flourishes and cultural touchstones.

You get an echo of this when you see the onion tops of the Orthodox churches in the distance while driving toward the little Ukrainian villages in southern Manitoba, but the cultural experience is probably limited to biannual pierogi suppers and the odd night of dancing in Winnipeg or Edmonton. Maybe Ukrainian culture doesn't really lend itself to Disneyfication like Bavaria does.

Or maybe the Ukrainian population didn't reach critical mass here like the Germans did?

Funny how I overlooked this, but Chinatowns are an obvious corollary to this, except they're always in cities. And Chinatowns are a purely organic phenomenon anyway. Nobody in 1962 decided "there should be a Chinatown here to attract tourists."

Though that's also due to the quaintness factor, which you have in spades with German stuff but not really at all in East Asia, where "garish" is the more apt descriptor than anything else.

Asmara, the capital of Eritrea actually has a ton of Italian fascist era art-deco futurist architecture that seems incredibly out of place. The Italians tried to build it up as a model city during their ill-fated colonial exploits. Not quite the same but in this day and age it must look like it in the middle of that country.

https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...ge-site-asmara

Alberta Views ran a piece a couple months back on the status of Ukrainian culture in Alberta. The article posits that the history of Ukrainians in Alberta has been whitewashed, and that Ukrainian-Canadians has been positioned as the "default prairie ethnic."

The most interesting part of the article is the following:

"In August 2012 the ancestral house of former Alberta premier Ed Stelmach, built by his grandparents in 1915, was moved from its moorings on the original quarter-section near Andrew to the Heritage Village. Together with other agricultural mementoes, such as a pigsty, granaries, market square and roadside shrine, the Stelmach house invites visitors to marvel at how far settlers have come: “From untouched bush, settlers carved out farms, and soon turned their attention to building their communities.”

The implication is that, prior to the prodigious investment of our labour, the land had been useless, unproductive and uninhabited. Asserting since the 1970s the deep belonging we felt to our place on the prairie that was neither English nor French, we had stepped up as exemplars of and participants in multiculturalism, having earned our right to the status of a “founding people” here thanks to our sweat, toil and tears on the land."

https://albertaviews.ca/babas-other-children/

If you took the above as true (arguable), you might say that the default prairie style is "Ukrainian." It isn't, therefore, distinguishable from other settler architecture except for those rare flourishes (eg. the onion domes).

Hope this isn't off-topic or too political a tangent, but if Alberta was founded in 1905 as a province, and if the European-style polity of the last century is vastly different from the previous centuries of First Nations presence there, then I don't think "founding people" should really be all that controversial.

While combing through what people say to point out blithe omissions of who lived here before the Europeans has become de rigeur, I don't think the characterization of the Ukrainians in your quote is inaccurate, no matter the perception of how insensitive or upsetting it might sound.

Though I like the phrase "default prairie ethnic." And actually, come to think of it, it makes a lot of sense.

Welcome to the forum and cool thread idea.

For myself, a mom and pop bakery is a must in any small charming town.
Bonus points for a glass blowing shop giving demoes and yard sales just happening off some of the side streets.

Well then, you'd love Alma in New Brunswick.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5A8701DF

Alma is a small fishing village along the upper reaches of the Bay of Fundy and is the service town for Fundy National Park (similar in that regard to Banff, Jasper or Revelstoke, except much smaller and much, MUCH, MUCH more humble).

Off season, the population of the village is only about 400, but it has many more restaurants, hotels and motels than you would normally expect given it's size, including a new craft brewery which is getting good reviews.

Anyway, Kelly's Bake Shop in Alma proclaims itself as the "home of the sticky bun", and in turn as being "world famous". I thought it was all hype, but I went there for the first time this summer and there was a line-up almost out the door for the sticky buns. It reminded me instantly of the "soup Nazi" from Seinfeld. You go to the counter, obediently place your order, and then, after paying, wait quietly amongst the assembled crowd for the order to be processed. I had the mental image that if you raised a ruckus, somebody would shout out "no sticky buns for you!!!" :haha:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...07&oe=5A3E7E38

Certainly in Canada and the northern US, Bavarian style architecture is suited to the climate. Plus Bavaria is beautiful, I can see why people would want to emulate it in mountainous settings

Good point that hipster duck said about tenant mix.

I never considered such a thing until I started working in commercial RE. Lots of landlords have declined some tenants, even good tenants, due to the nature of their business. They prefer a certain kind of mix when it's a landlord's leasing market.

Definitely helps if there's a nice mix of tenants at different corners.

Thanks for the welcoming messages.

Good points here and I agree with most. Regarding the bolded, I think it's preferable to have a mix - especially in larger cities. Midtown Manhattan works with the wider streets and Greenwich Village works with narrow streets - context is important.

Just drove through Downtown Oakville and Kerr Village and it reminded me about the white Christmas lights in the trees.

Can also wrap around the tree trunks like Las Olas area of Downtown Ft. Lauderdale.


http://www.ronniemills.com/Docs/ROY9...ille_Night.jpg
From ronniemills.com


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-P3xN0WqhnS...s_2am_3593.jpg

lack of parking lots and chain fast food, gasoline joints. Naturally, stately old buildings right up to the curb, narrow streets, mature trees, walkable streets, eclectic shops, lack of stinkos, a meandering river....

That's another. The river. Paris, ON on the main street is decent, but on the other side of the shops is what's most interesting. Right over the Grand River. Cambridge too has an interesting riverfront on the Grand.

Also, the Thames is a big part of Stratford.


Cambridge
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8306/8...091cb949_b.jpg
Sue Moffet https://www.flickr.com/photos/suemof...phy/8012707231



Elora. Also on the Grand
http://eloraheights.com/style/images...-the-grand.jpg

I suppose, if the fact that Stratford's Avon River flows into the Thames makes the latter a "big part". :haha:

Lol. My bad. Mixing up my Southwest Ontario rivers. Only been to Stratford once.

Last month when I visited Kincardine I thought that I was looking at the Maitland. For a good week I was under that impression until I looked at the map again.

I guess I tend to mix up rivers I don't fish in. Because I did take my little boat up the Sauble that same day and won't forget that one!

As I started to fish more and started driving around more, I began to realize just how many those towns lining the Great Lakes have boatable rivers and creeks. I wish I had the time and money to venture up every single one of them while hopefully catching fish at the same time. It's another nice way of seeing a town. I like the eclectic mix of homes, boats and businesses along the river.

One of the most interesting sights was on the Welland River in Wellandport. Was passing by a horse farm. As I got closer a few horses came right up to the water's edge to check me out. I was about five feet away and then backed off because I was genuinely scared one of them was going to jump in the boat to make a run from the farm.

Yes to all of that, but what's a "Stinko"

A "wino" or vagrant I suppose?

I thought so.

North Bay's Main Street is somewhat charming -- at least a block or two of it, anyway.

https://goo.gl/maps/7r6sLKQi4xN2

https://goo.gl/maps/GnjLaW1XTGS2

That is pretty decent. I went to visit some people at Nippissing back in 2005. Being young I could care less about the surroundings. And only went downtown at night to get drunk and have a good time. Didn't realize it looked like this.

They even have a clock post. Another little thing to add to the list. Completely useless now but a nice little accent piece for a downtown.

Actually looking more and more at this street view, I didn't realize there's a lot more going on there than I would have thought. Interlock road looks nice!

The nig
ht before I went downtown, Strombo was at the campus pub. This was during his Much Music days and not CBC. I shook his hand and briefly talked to him. I don't think he knew what I said because he looked totally blazed.

Another things is balconies. Whether they're real or decorative, they add a little intimacy to a streetscape.

The French Quarter is full of them. Unionville in Markham has a few. Frenchmans Bay in Pickering has tonnes but that's because most of that street is three storey housing.



https://neighbourhoodwalks.files.wor...n_bay_0004.jpg
From https://neighbourhoodwalks.wordpress...frenchmans-ba/



http://gtarealestateblog.com/wp-cont...eal-Estate.jpg
From http://gtarealestateblog.com/markham-real-estate/

Drove through Uxbridge, Sunderland, Beaverton and Sutton this weekend. Seemed like all of them had those clocks on the sidewalks. Uxbridge and Beaverton were pretty interesting.

Uxbridge has a decent DT and they got a few old trains there and one of them takes people on a short scenic journey.

Beaverton has a lot of rustic charm. And some of those houses along the mouth of Beaver Creek were really interesting. As well, they had a few murals on old buildings. That's something I don't think was mentioned. Murals definitely add character to a place.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-izwK-IqyB...erton-8254.jpg
http://eastgwillimburywow.blogspot.c...ain-mural.html

Drove through to Niagara as well this weekend. Here's an example of a gateway to a neighbourhood like I had mentioned earlier.

http://grimsbyradio.com/wp-content/u...8171793_lg.jpg
http://grimsbyradio.com/

^I like stopping for coffee at Station 1 and going across the street to the Dutch store to buy candy in downtown Grimsby. Bonus the Dutch farm girls are kinda hot.:)

I always like town squares. We badly need one in Timmins and our downtown is really bad to begin with and could use a square for events.

Good point.

Hadn't even thought about that despite growing up in Brampton. They really improved the "Four Corners" and built around the Rose Theatre to make it a gatherine place. Formerly there were banks on all four corners of Queen and Main.

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/Arts-Cultu...B_6886_jpg.jpg
http://www.brampton.ca/EN/Arts-Cultu...s/Welcome.aspx

http://www.brampton.ca/EN/Arts-Cultu...rsz_banner.jpg
http://www.brampton.ca/EN/Arts-Cultu...ree-Films.aspx

Mississauga

https://www.insauga.com/sites/defaul...06/eurocup.jpg
https://www.insauga.com/catch-euro-2...re-this-summer

http://www.csparch.com/images/projec.../mcs/mcs01.jpg
https://www.narcity.com/ca/on/toront...in-mississauga

Kingston

http://static.wixstatic.com/media/b7...80f7ddf4b.webp
http://www.experienceslc.ca/experien...aItem-ig3x3evr

https://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1..._620/image.jpg
(THE CANADIAN PRESS / Lars Hagberg)

Any town squares in smaller communities? Please post some photos.

Rouyn-Noranda has one in front of its city hall and the city has the same population as Timmins. It has a nice fountain and many outdoor events are held at it.