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GreaterMontréal Jan 18, 2018 3:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8050488)
Yeah but did you even read the articles you posted. Neither support the conclusions you drew from them.
Western Canada (BC and Alberta mainly) to continue leading the country.

Quebec created more private jobs than BC. BC created more public jobs than Quebec.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...abr66f-eng.htm

casper Jan 18, 2018 5:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal (Post 8050777)
Quebec created more private jobs than BC. BC created more public jobs than Quebec.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...abr66f-eng.htm

The ratio of public to private sector is a political number. We currently have an NDP government in power. Generally they are ok with having government employees. When we have a Liberal (Social Credit, or whatever you want to call the anti-NDP party this decade) they have a philosophical objection to increasing government head count. They create and fund non-profit societies to deliver services.

All said, I don't quite know why we are trying to compare the airports in Montreal and Vancouver in this way. They have very different international traffic patterns. If you wanted to compare Vancouver and Seattle that would be a more reasonable discussion.

Lancaster Jan 18, 2018 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8050635)
An aircraft that lands on runway 24L often has to exit the runway at the end, due to opposite direction traffic on taxiway A (the parallel taxiway). This increases runway occupancy time for landers. Since runway 24L is our main departure runway, this in turn reduces our departure rate. Dual parallel taxiways would eliminate this problem. On runway 24R, our only high speed exit, B2, is too far down the runway for narrowbodies, and taxiway E is too close, meaning they often miss it. Again, all of this increases runway occupancy time, and reduces aircraft movement capacity.

These are brutal misses. Could a displaced threshold on 24R further down the field lower occupancy times? Shorten the runway for inbounds placing them closer to the high speed, but maintain departures at the existing threshold? As for landings on 24L, short of building a dual taxiway (which I hope they are actively trying to do), I'm assuming preference is that all arrivals land on 24R, and departures on 24L. This leads to a question that has been bugging me for some time - why is it that preference is to operate one runway as an "arrivals runway" and one in mixed-mode? It appears this is the case at YVR, YUL (and I would assume YYC?). What's the benefit? I thought SPIDS was supposed to the best thing for capacity?

Quote:

There's a reason we call that space the toilet bowl. For one, it looks like it, and 2, it's shitty controlling planes in there. Luckily that is ADM's responsibility. They designed it, let them deal with it.
Surely there is a backlog of aircraft every so often that can't actually enter this frankenstein horseshoe based on movements already ongoing and have to wait on other taxiways? Or else how is this managed?

thenoflyzone Jan 18, 2018 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8050755)
Does YUL operate the runways as mixed or segregated mode?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8050924)
why is it that preference is to operate one runway as an "arrivals runway" and one in mixed-mode? It appears this is the case at YVR, YUL (and I would assume YYC?). What's the benefit? I thought SPIDS was supposed to the best thing for capacity?

It's somewhere in between segregated and mixed mode.

Main landing runway is 24R. General aviation goes on runway 24L. When there is a peak of arrivals, approach control is allowed to offload arrivals on runway 24L.

Main departure runway is 24L. 24R is available for those that request it for operational reasons, such as the heavies going to DOH, PEK, PVG, etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8050924)
Could a displaced threshold on 24R further down the field lower occupancy times? Shorten the runway for inbounds placing them closer to the high speed, but maintain departures at the existing threshold?

no, because B2 is perfectly placed for heavies, which we have quite a lot of. If we displaced the threshold, heavies would miss B2, and the next exit which is G, is brutal, as all the planes literally stop on the runway looking for it, since it's at the intersection with runway 28. What we need is an additional high speed exit between B2 and E, which we are getting in the next year or two. We are also getting another high speed exit for runway 06L. Something closer to the threshold so the Dash 8s can use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8050924)



Surely there is a backlog of aircraft every so often that can't actually enter this frankenstein horseshoe based on movements already ongoing and have to wait on other taxiways? Or else how is this managed?

Exactly that. Inbounds wait. If apron control runs out of room, they tell us to hold them on the taxiways. That's when we park the planes on runway 28.

Happens on occasion during IROPS, when pushbacks are delayed, and inbounds are still landing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8050924)
These are brutal misses.

It's an old airport. Runways were built a long time ago. These kind of efficiencies werent needed back then. YYC has a brand new parallel runway with properly placed exits, and a dual parallel taxiway. YVR's 08L/26R is also relatively new (built in the 90s), with proper exits and such. Makes all the difference.

Acajack Jan 18, 2018 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8050513)
The average human being is better than ADM when it comes to these things. But to answer your first question, yes I am. I am annoyingly insensitive as well, so yes to the second as well!



You might be shocked to hear this, but YUL was a hub before any AC flight to PEK or NRT. Also, you do realize they put that connectivity sentence in virtually every new route announcement out of YYZ, YUL, YVR, YYC etc.



Corrected my statements. Quebec unemployment rate fell below 5% in December, to 4.8%. That's second best in the country, right after BC, and ahead of Ontario and Alberta.

Again, whether they are 1st, 2nd or third, it doesn't change the point I am making about the Quebec economy booming and helping to attract new flights to YUL.

I really wonder why people are arguing for fractions of percentage points when both provinces are doing quite well? :shrug:

SkahHigh Jan 18, 2018 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8050984)
I really wonder why people are arguing for fractions of percentage points when both provinces are doing quite well? :shrug:

Yeah, hope this doesn't turn into a Quebec vs BC thing... I'd tolerate boasting to Alberta but not to BC :D

Acajack Jan 18, 2018 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 8051016)
Yeah, hope this doesn't turn into a Quebec vs BC thing... I'd tolerate boasting to Alberta but not to BC :D

BC and Quebec have always "gotten along" quite well, in my experience!

thenoflyzone Jan 18, 2018 6:03 PM

Live AAR rates for Canada's busiest airports, if anyone is interested. Not updated during midnight hours.

https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx

As discussed earlier, current rate for YYC and YVR is 44. YUL is 38.

Lancaster Jan 18, 2018 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8051635)
Live AAR rates for Canada's busiest airports, if anyone is interested. Not updated during midnight hours.

https://extranetapps.navcanada.ca/ois/ois.aspx

As discussed earlier, current rate for YYC and YVR is 44. YUL is 38.

This is a great resource! Thank you!

I noticed that NC publishes AAR documents, is there a departure guide as well? Or rules of thumb calculations?

thenoflyzone Jan 18, 2018 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8052097)
This is a great resource! Thank you!

I noticed that NC publishes AAR documents, is there a departure guide as well? Or rules of thumb calculations?

Departure rates aren't that important, because the planes are on the ground and can simply wait if there is a departure peak. Nothing unsafe about it.

It's a bit more complicated with arrivals, as they are airborne, and might need to hold or divert if they can't land after a certain time. Hence why there are airport arrival rates. If the demand will exceed capacity for a certain time frame, then a flow program will be put it place to make sure to limit the amount of inbound planes to a manageable level.

That's what the second part of that webpage deals with. GDP (ground depay program) or AFP (airspace flow program).

Right now, there is a GDP for SFO, LGA and EWR, because demand exceeds capacity at those airports due to weather (which lowers the AAR). In the case of LGA and EWR, it's almost on a daily basis, even on days when there is no weather. Instead of "weather", it will say "volume" as the reason.

BTW, if you click on the AAR rates on that webpage for our Canadian airports, a chart will open depicting the different AAR rates for the airport, depending on runway configuration and weather.

Lancaster Jan 19, 2018 2:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8052199)
Departure rates aren't that important, because the planes are on the ground and can simply wait if there is a departure peak. Nothing unsafe about it.

Oh, I totally understand why there should be an arrival rate maximum. However, take YVR's AAR document from the OIS, you should be able to sorta back-calculate how many departures you could depart in an hour, no? For instance the single runway mixed-mode AAR of 24 for YVR. If I understand this document correct it states that aircraft are spaced 6nm apart, and it can do 24 per hour. How many aircraft between each arriving aircraft can depart? At least 1? Meaning a single runway could (in good conditions) do 48 movements per hour?

I don't quite understand some of the bracketed values. On the second row (08L/08R (RNAV)) and VMC column it says "32 (24/8)". What's up with the 24/8? Can you shed some light? Also, how is RNAV different from Side-by-side arrivals?

thenoflyzone Jan 19, 2018 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8052479)
How many aircraft between each arriving aircraft can depart?

1, maybe even 2, depending.

The quickest successive departures you can have is a jet immediately followed by a prop with a turn. You can essentially launch the prop as soon as the jet has it's nose wheel off the asphalt.

However, to be able to launch 2, you need your first arrival to exit the runway pretty quickly. If Air China is taking his sweet ass time exiting the runway, you might only have time to release 1 departure. In winter, with a slippery runway, 6 miles will not be enough to even release 1 departure, so you'll ask for 7 or even 8 miles in trail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8052479)

I don't quite understand some of the bracketed values. On the second row (08L/08R (RNAV)) and VMC column it says "32 (24/8)". What's up with the 24/8? Can you shed some light? Also, how is RNAV different from Side-by-side arrivals?

32 (24/8) means the AAR is 32, and in this case, it's 24 arrivals on 08L (the primary landing runway) and 8 on 08R.

When doing RNAV approaches, you cant do simultaneous side by side arrivals. You can only do that with visuals or ILS approaches. That's why the AAR is lower with RNAV approaches. You need to stagger your aircraft on each runway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lancaster (Post 8050924)
I thought SPIDS was supposed to the best thing for capacity?

It is, but we are limited on SPIDS (simultaneous parallel independent departures) here at YUL. In order to do SPIDS, you need to have 15 degree track divergence immediately after departure.

Since we cant turn jets on departure (due to noise abatement procedures), we cant do it between two jets. We can only do SPIDS with a jet and a prop, or two props. This is another advantage YYZ and YYC have over us, as they can do SPIDS with jets. Not sure about YVR, but i believe they can do it too.

zahav Jan 23, 2018 5:18 AM

I know some of you (thenoflyzone) will love this news haha, Hainan Airlines announced today new service to Shenzhen via Tianjin from YVR. 13 cities served direct from YVR to mainland China: Beijing, Chengdu, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Kunming, Nanjing, Qindao, Shanghai, Shenyang, Shenzhen, Tianjin, Xiamen, and Zhengzhou. Total of 7 mainland carriers (Air China, Beijing Capital, China Eastern, China Southern, Hainan, Sichuan, and Xiamen) plus Air Canada. If you add in Hong Kong and Taipei (controversially "Greater China") then total destinations is 15 and carriers up to 11 total (Cathay Pacific, China Airlines, EVA Air, and Hong Kong Airlines).

I say this without any joke, I would gladly give up any of those routes if we could get one to South America!! We'll trade Montreal's Lima route for any of the above lol

SteelTown Jan 23, 2018 10:46 PM

Hamilton’s airport is the fastest growing in Canada

Hamilton Spectator
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8...ing-in-canada/

With a jump in passenger traffic of 80 per cent last year over 2016, John C. Munro Hamilton International has become the country's fastest growing airport.

It handled 599,146 passengers in 2017, up from 333,368 in 2016.

Cathie Puckering, the airport's acting president and CEO, said she expects continued growth in coming years, thanks to new services for 2018.

John C. Munro Hamilton International also continues to be the country's largest overnight express cargo airport. In 2017, its cargo volume rose 13 per cent as it asserted itself as a strategic gateway for facilitating goods movement from coast to coast and across the globe.

"This is an exciting time for Hamilton International as more passengers discover the ease and convenience of travelling from Hamilton," Puckering said in a news release. "The passengers are originating from Hamilton and surrounding areas including Toronto and beyond thanks to the wide variety of destinations being served.

"Low-cost carriers have opened leisure air travel to millennials and young families which can be seen in our airport terminal daily."

The airport invested almost $5 million to improve and upgrade facilities in 2017, including projects such as a new covered and heated international walkway, improved and convenient vehicle parking pay stations, rehabilitation of the roadways and runways and renovations to the duty-free location.

Denscity Jan 24, 2018 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8051074)
BC and Quebec have always "gotten along" quite well, in my experience!

I think its our liberal thinking and snowboarding that keeps us tight :tup:

thenoflyzone Jan 24, 2018 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 8058183)
I think its our liberal thinking and snowboarding that keeps us tight :tup:

You got it wrong. It's our common goal of refusing pipelines coming out of Alberta. :tup:

Denscity Jan 24, 2018 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8058198)
You got it wrong. It's our common goal of refusing pipelines coming out of Alberta. :tup:

Aah yes that too.

SaskOttaLoo Jan 24, 2018 4:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown (Post 8058022)
Hamilton’s airport is the fastest growing in Canada

Hamilton Spectator
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/8...ing-in-canada/

With a jump in passenger traffic of 80 per cent last year over 2016, John C. Munro Hamilton International has become the country's fastest growing airport.

It handled 599,146 passengers in 2017, up from 333,368 in 2016.

Cathie Puckering, the airport's acting president and CEO, said she expects continued growth in coming years, thanks to new services for 2018.

John C. Munro Hamilton International also continues to be the country's largest overnight express cargo airport. In 2017, its cargo volume rose 13 per cent as it asserted itself as a strategic gateway for facilitating goods movement from coast to coast and across the globe.

"This is an exciting time for Hamilton International as more passengers discover the ease and convenience of travelling from Hamilton," Puckering said in a news release. "The passengers are originating from Hamilton and surrounding areas including Toronto and beyond thanks to the wide variety of destinations being served.

"Low-cost carriers have opened leisure air travel to millennials and young families which can be seen in our airport terminal daily."

The airport invested almost $5 million to improve and upgrade facilities in 2017, including projects such as a new covered and heated international walkway, improved and convenient vehicle parking pay stations, rehabilitation of the roadways and runways and renovations to the duty-free location.

Based on last year's stats on wikipedia, that should raise Hamilton from 30th to around 18th! Has anyone compiled the full 2017 passenger figures for Canadian airports yet?

Dirt_Devil Jan 24, 2018 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo (Post 8058424)
Has anyone compiled the full 2017 passenger figures for Canadian airports yet?

Nope but final results are already available for several airports across the country. Just not the big ones though ;)

q12 Jan 25, 2018 7:10 PM

Quote:

Halifax Stanfield Surpasses 4 Million Passenger Milestone – Growth Expected to Continue at Atlantic Canada’s Gateway


POSTED ON JANUARY 25, 2018
Halifax Stanfield surpassed its goal of reaching the four million passenger mark in 2017, by serving 4,083,188 passengers. This is an increase of 4.5 per cent over the record set the previous year of 3,908,799 passengers served.

“We are extremely proud and excited to have reached this significant milestone. It’s reflective of our airport’s ability to grow and adapt in a fast-changing environment, particularly as we expand our role as Atlantic Canada’s Gateway,” says Joyce Carter, Halifax International Airport Authority (HIAA) President & CEO.

In 2017, Halifax Stanfield was served by 18 scheduled and charter passenger airlines flying to 45 destinations. The airport served an average of 175 flights each day to various points within Canada, the United States, Europe, Mexico and the Caribbean.

Halifax Stanfield has been growing at a phenomenal rate over the last five years, with passenger volume increasing by 13.9 per cent, which equates to an additional half million passengers.

“We will continue to work with airlines and stakeholders to provide our passengers with more travel options, gearing Halifax Stanfield for future growth. The foundation of this work is our shared vision with the provincial government to enhance tourism, trade and immigration,” Joyce Carter further commented.

To celebrate reaching the four million passenger milestone, HIAA will be announcing a contest soon to thank passengers and the community for their ongoing support of Halifax Stanfield.
https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/01/...nadas-gateway/


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