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TorontoDrew Dec 28, 2014 2:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 6857191)
Parts of the canada line trains have no seating and are used for luggage and bike storage.
And ya canada line sure is popular isn't it?


I'll have to find one of those sections next time.

WhipperSnapper Dec 28, 2014 4:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 6857459)
The problem is that once they reach Union, a good proportion of business travellers will have to hop on a cab to reach their final destination, adding maybe an extra $10-$15 on average? The train ride doesn't seem so competitive once you factor in the cost and the time it takes to transfer to a cab.

People walk. Union is right there in the CBD.

TorontoDrew Dec 28, 2014 6:36 AM

I was going to say that. Most will walk or hop on the ttc for a short trip.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 6857576)
People walk. Union is right there in the CBD.

Maybe Toronto residents would, but as a business traveller coming from Montreal for a day meeting, I don't have time (or don't want) to walk or use the TTC to get to my meetings - which are not necessarily within a 5 minutes walk from Union. And I'm probably the demographic they're targeting... I may try it once to see if it's more convenient, we'll see.

caltrane74 Dec 28, 2014 3:21 PM

A top executive like yourself (or Whippersnapper) at First Canadian Place would know that all the big bank towers are across the street from Union Station. FCP is a 2 or 3 min walk and a 1 minute cab ride in traffic with a 4 dollar fair plus tip. If you work in the bank towers or have meetings there burning 5 or 6 bux on cab fair for a 1/2 minute ride is par for the course I guess. I wouldn't know I've never worked in a one of those towers except for a brief stint doing some business development for investment bank at Brookfield place which is right across the street from Union Station and also connected via underground tunnels. The UPX was created for guys like you high flyers of finance, when you get to Union Station there is no where else to go, you are 1 minute walking from King and Bay the heart of Canada's Banking, Finance, Investment, Accounting and Legal Community.

WhipperSnapper Dec 28, 2014 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 6857718)
Maybe Toronto residents would, but as a business traveller coming from Montreal for a day meeting, I don't have time (or don't want) to walk or use the TTC to get to my meetings - which are not necessarily within a 5 minutes walk from Union. And I'm probably the demographic they're targeting... I may try it once to see if it's more convenient, we'll see.

Gimme a break about time and that's your choice not to walk. Most will walk once they know it's a block or two away. Even big oil reps from autocentric Houston.

P.S. A taxi will take longer from both the airport and from Union.

jmt18325 Dec 28, 2014 4:24 PM

Why are you flying to Pearson if you're coming from Montreal for a day meeting downtown?

BenTheGreat97 Dec 28, 2014 4:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 6857759)
Why are you flying to Pearson if you're coming from Montreal for a day meeting downtown?

Hour long flight in, meeting, hour long flight back. My dad would do that to/from Boston a few years ago.

jmt18325 Dec 28, 2014 5:13 PM

If you're coming from Montreal to a meeting in downtown Toronto, why not land in downtown Toronto?

begratto Dec 28, 2014 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 6857789)
If you're coming from Montreal to a meeting in downtown Toronto, why not land in downtown Toronto?

I do, most of the time, but not always.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 6857756)
Gimme a break about time and that's your choice not to walk. Most will walk once they know it's a block or two away. Even big oil reps from autocentric Houston.

P.S. A taxi will take longer from both the airport and from Union.

Well not everyone has meetings a block or two from Union.

TorontoDrew Dec 28, 2014 6:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto (Post 6857718)
Maybe Toronto residents would, but as a business traveller coming from Montreal for a day meeting, I don't have time (or don't want) to walk or use the TTC to get to my meetings - which are not necessarily within a 5 minutes walk from Union. And I'm probably the demographic they're targeting... I may try it once to see if it's more convenient, we'll see.

Well wouldn't that be the case for any business traveller going to any city? I doubt they will care about cab fare. Some of these comments are just silly.

caltrane74 Dec 28, 2014 6:13 PM

Where is your meeting at,.. Liberty Village?


Yorkville?
Don Mills-Wynford?
Consumers Road?
Yonge and Eglinton?
North York Centre?
East Mall/Renforth/Airport Corporate Centre?

begratto Dec 28, 2014 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caltrane74 (Post 6857822)
Where is your meeting at,.. Liberty Village?


Yorkville?
Don Mills-Wynford?
Consumers Road?
Yonge and Eglinton?
North York Centre?
East Mall/Renforth/Airport Corporate Centre?

The building where most of my meetings are held is much closer than the examples you provided, but far enough to justify a taxi or subway ride from Union; it's about 15 minutes away if I walk.

So it's a 0-15 minutes wait for the train, a 25 minutes ride, a not necessarily pleasant 15 minutes walk (depends on weather and the time I have, really), so you're looking at a 40-55 minutes travel time. Compare this to a one-seat, door-to-door 50 minutes taxi ride, that I often share with a colleague or two. If the UPX was $10 or $15, I wouldn't even hesitate, but at $29pp? Not so sure...

1overcosc Dec 28, 2014 10:19 PM

You're not comfortable with a 15 minute walk?

Nouvellecosse Dec 28, 2014 10:49 PM

You guys sit around speculating about the business travelers who'd be using the service and then when one actually contributes a response you tell him how silly he is for not thinking the way you feel he should? You guys aren't going to be there to talk every business person into walking from the station to their meeting and explain to them how silly they are if they don't. I'd suggest that you simply value the info he provided and accept that people don't always think and do what you feel is most appropriate.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 6857959)
You're not comfortable with a 15 minute walk?

*sigh* yes I am, I live in a very walkable, central neighbourhood, use the metro or Bixi to get to work.

What I am saying is that $29/person is very expensive considering the small number of minutes saved and the inconvenience of an extra transfer and of not getting door-to-door service.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse (Post 6857974)
You guys sit around speculating about the business travelers who'd be using the service and then when one actually contributes a response you tell him how silly he is for not thinking the way you feel he should? You guys aren't going to be there to talk every business person into walking from the station to their meeting and explain to them how silly they are if they don't. I'd suggest that you simply value the info he provided and accept that people don't always think and do what you feel is most appropriate.

Merci Nouvelleecosse. I guess what I was trying to say is that if me, a typical urbanite, walker, cyclist, pro-transit business traveller don't think the UPX is an obvious choice and such a good deal, I'm not so sure the Houston oil exec mentioned earlier will either. I wonder if the market is that big for a $29 train ride vs a door-to-door service. Time will tell, I guess. But I'd be willing to bet that they will cut the price by half within a year or two.

begratto Dec 28, 2014 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper (Post 6857756)
Gimme a break about time and that's your choice not to walk. Most will walk once they know it's a block or two away. Even big oil reps from autocentric Houston.

Ok then, let's make a comparison: how many of you who travel to Montreal for business use the $10 747 Trudeau Airport / City Centre express bus?

It takes the same time as a taxi to get to the city centre, passes every 5-6 minutes, uses reserved bus lanes (even on the autoroute), costs much less, drops you off within a block or two of 80% of the downtown buildings. Yet none of my Toronto colleagues/business contacts have ever used it to get to my office: they all use a cab between Trudeau airport and downtown. The only advantage of taxis on that route is the door-to-door service, i.e. not having to figure out your way in a city you are not necessarily familiar with.

I do, however, use it quite frequently, but only because it is convenient from where I live - almost as fast as the taxi ride, and because the fare is covered by my monthly transit pass. As a business traveller from another city, I'm not sure I'd use it either. Most of the people I see on this bus are leisure travellers who want to save the extra $30 that it would cost to use a taxi, or airport employees. At $29 a ride, I don't think it would be very crowded...

1overcosc Dec 28, 2014 11:59 PM

It's $27. $19 for anyone with a Presto card which would be basically any Torontonian, Ottawan, or Hamiltonian who ever uses transit.

You're unlucky, relative to the rest, to be a 15 minute walk away. Most would be 5 or less and have the advantage of PATH, if they're from Toronto. (PATH is way too confusing for out-of-towners to navigate successfully).

The 747 bus is not a good comparison because:
1) It's a bus (rail bias is significant especially for Americans)
2) The speed advantage is not nearly as significant as it is with UPX
3) Montreal itself has way fewer business travellers making that trip compared to TO

I'd be surprised if UPX captures anything more than 10%-20% of the downtown->airport travel market, but that's all it needs to catch. The ridership models assumed a 15% modeshare of downtown->airport travel, IIRC.


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