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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

ue Jul 5, 2014 2:46 AM

Yeah, I dunno. Maybe a local Ottawan can chime in. I get why they ignore Quebec (language and different laws), and because although Ottawa is very Anglo, you still get visitors from the other side of the river, maybe the West Coast chains just would rather not bother. Halifax is another market that might work for these companies, but Ottawa makes more sense first (as well as other Ontario cities like Kitchener and Kingston).

Pavlov Jul 5, 2014 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6642514)
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe a local Ottawan can chime in. I get why they ignore Quebec (language and different laws), and because although Ottawa is very Anglo, you still get visitors from the other side of the river, maybe the West Coast chains just would rather not bother. Halifax is another market that might work for these companies, but Ottawa makes more sense first (as well as other Ontario cities like Kitchener and Kingston).

Downtown Kingston has a Milestones.

Acajack Jul 5, 2014 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6642514)
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe a local Ottawan can chime in. I get why they ignore Quebec (language and different laws), and because although Ottawa is very Anglo, you still get visitors from the other side of the river, maybe the West Coast chains just would rather not bother. Halifax is another market that might work for these companies, but Ottawa makes more sense first (as well as other Ontario cities like Kitchener and Kingston).

I don't believe that bilingual service is a requirement of private food vendors at Ottawa airport. If that's the case they'd all be shut down as basically none of them offer service in French I can assure you.

Acajack Jul 5, 2014 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 6642467)
It has a lot to do with the Feds treating Canadian airports like their own private instant teller machine rather than engines of economic growth. Canadian PAX numbers are substantially below what one would expect. Only a few of our airports manage to reach PAX numbers that one would expect. Calgary comes to mind.

Consider that Melbourne's airport has more than double the number of passengers as Montreal despite almost identical populations. Montreal technically serves more people as its the principal airport for Quebec, a more populated jurisdiction than Victoria State.

We've already gone on at length here several times about why YUL's pax numbers aren't that high. It's mostly because domestic non-business traffic is very low.

International traffic for YUL is relatively comparable to other Canadian cities, relative to population and market size anyway.

For example, I believe that the Montreal-Paris route is the busiest international pax route with a starting or finishing point in Canada.

And also Melbourne is in a completely different geographic situation. It doesn't have land access to the United States of America, for example.

SkahHigh Jul 5, 2014 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 6642467)
It has a lot to do with the Feds treating Canadian airports like their own private instant teller machine rather than engines of economic growth. Canadian PAX numbers are substantially below what one would expect. Only a few of our airports manage to reach PAX numbers that one would expect. Calgary comes to mind.

Consider that Melbourne's airport has more than double the number of passengers as Montreal despite almost identical populations. Montreal technically serves more people as its the principal airport for Quebec, a more populated jurisdiction than Victoria State.

Contrarily to Calgary, which is more isolated, people in Montreal can drive to NYC, Boston, Maine, you name it, or take the train. People here just don't take the plane as often. It doesn't have anything to do with economics.

SFUVancouver Jul 5, 2014 8:25 PM

^ What do people think about that news article and the concept of airport-oriented land use planning in the vicinity of airports?

Coldrsx Jul 5, 2014 11:39 PM

Why not right!? Help drive non aviation revenue.

casper Jul 6, 2014 4:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver (Post 6643074)
^ What do people think about that news article and the concept of airport-orient land use planning in the vicinity of airports?

Helps ensure "Airport appropriate" land use. For example this helps ensure the residential does not get build in the high noise area.

LeftCoaster Jul 7, 2014 9:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6642514)
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe a local Ottawan can chime in. I get why they ignore Quebec (language and different laws), and because although Ottawa is very Anglo, you still get visitors from the other side of the river, maybe the West Coast chains just would rather not bother. Halifax is another market that might work for these companies, but Ottawa makes more sense first (as well as other Ontario cities like Kitchener and Kingston).

Earls (and the entire Joeys/Earls/Cactus gang) only recently expanded to Ontario, so there are still plenty of opportunities available in the GTA. It is only a matter of time before they look for growth in Ottawa though.

WhipperSnapper Jul 7, 2014 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 6642467)
It has a lot to do with the Feds treating Canadian airports like their own private instant teller machine rather than engines of economic growth. Canadian PAX numbers are substantially below what one would expect. Only a few of our airports manage to reach PAX numbers that one would expect. Calgary comes to mind.

Consider that Melbourne's airport has more than double the number of passengers as Montreal despite almost identical populations. Montreal technically serves more people as its the principal airport for Quebec, a more populated jurisdiction than Victoria State.

Stupid to compare the figures of an isolated city on an isolated continent to one of that is surrounded by major cities within a reseasonable drive. I don't think more competitive pricing will get significantly more people from driving. 8 weeks holidays would have a larger impcat though.

1overcosc Jul 8, 2014 12:05 AM

ON/QC airline numbers are dragged down by the fact that bus & rail options are much more extensive here than they are anywhere else in Canada. For TO-MTL-OTT triangle, if you exclude people flying between those cities for connections to points beyond, VIA Rail probably has the airlines beat for passenger numbers, especially for MTL-OTT. And of course they're all beat by the private auto which is by far the most popular way to travel around the QC-Windsor corridor.

If you're from Ottawa, and going to Toronto, why would you pay $300 for a flight when you can take the train for $50? Yes the train is technically two hours slower, but when you factor in having to get the airport early, going through security, the eons it takes people to get off the plane, having to get all the way out to the airport, etc. and its honestly about the same.

If HSR ever becomes a thing out here (which I suspect it will in the medium term, the ball is starting to roll here in ON), it will kill flight numbers. If the HSR included stops at the Montreal & Toronto airports as well as their downtowns and had integrated check in & baggage check, YOW traffic would probably fall by 40% or more, while YUL & YYZ would probably see 5%-10% drops, and the YOW-YUL route would likely cease to exist.

SaskScraper Jul 8, 2014 4:32 AM

Congratulations to YVR being ranked Best airport in North America!

http://www.weather.com/travel/travel...30417?pageno=9

Denscity Jul 8, 2014 5:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 6645267)
Congratulations to YVR being ranked Best airport in North America!

http://www.weather.com/travel/travel...30417?pageno=9

It's best in North America every year at least 5 years straight.

ssiguy Jul 8, 2014 5:37 AM

Vancouver is a very nice and easy to negotiate airport. It is also, unlike most airports in Canada, very easy to get to by transit as the SkyTrain goes literally to the front door.

It uses a lot of wood which makes it seem more intimate and less sterile like many airports. Some airports due to so much glass and steel have a real institutional feel to them...........you feel like you are navigating a warehouse but not Vancouver.

Pearson is now newer but is still as confusing, disorienting, and sterile as ever. It looks pretty from the outside but like 99% of travellers, I couldn't care less what it looks like outside but rather what the inside feels like and whether I need a Google map just to find my Gate number.

ue Jul 8, 2014 6:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reesonov (Post 6642676)
Downtown Kingston has a Milestones.

Milestones is an Ontario chain, though, isn't it? It has far more presence out in Ontario than here in Western Canada, that's for sure. It does seem like the closest thing Ontario has created to the Earls/Joey/Cactus Club type restaurant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 6642720)
I don't believe that bilingual service is a requirement of private food vendors at Ottawa airport. If that's the case they'd all be shut down as basically none of them offer service in French I can assure you.

Yeah, I know, but it may just be the perception of some corporates way out in Vancouver, unfamiliar with how Ottawa actually works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 6644747)
Earls (and the entire Joeys/Earls/Cactus gang) only recently expanded to Ontario, so there are still plenty of opportunities available in the GTA. It is only a matter of time before they look for growth in Ottawa though.

Interesting, I didn't know how recent the expansion was. It just seemed odd how the Ottawa market was ignored but if it was a recent expansion then ok. It just reminded me of how international retailers often start in Toronto and then immediately head to AB and BC and then after years eventually make their way back to Ottawa and Montreal before heading back west for Winnipeg and Saskatoon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 6642796)
Contrarily to Calgary, which is more isolated, people in Montreal can drive to NYC, Boston, Maine, you name it, or take the train. People here just don't take the plane as often. It doesn't have anything to do with economics.

If being close to American cities were that big of a hindrance, then Pearson would be a failure.

giallo Jul 8, 2014 8:12 AM

Milestones was sold to Cara Operations (which is based in Ontario) in 2002, so it's now a Ontario chain. It got its start on Denman St. in Vancouver back in 1989. My sister worked in one in Kelowna back in 1997. She hated working there.

vanatox Jul 8, 2014 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6645326)
Interesting, It just reminded me of how international retailers often start in Toronto and then immediately head to AB and BC and then after years eventually make their way back to Ottawa and Montreal before heading back west for Winnipeg and Saskatoon.

By international retailers, I guess you meant US retailers? Then you are right. It's not the case however with european retailers that generally start with Toronto and Montreal, Vancouver as well. European retailers are used to deal with different populations and languages, so they will not consider this as an annoyance like some US retailers. Many european chains have their Canadian headquarter in Montreal as well. As an example, Montreal is considered the door to North America for French companies.

SkahHigh Jul 8, 2014 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6645326)
If being close to American cities were that big of a hindrance, then Pearson would be a failure.

It isn't the same thing, because Toronto is Canada's metropolis and economic capital so lots of people fly there for business from across North America. Plus, lots of flights go through Pearson before being transferred elsewhere. For example, this winter I did Montreal-Toronto-Cancun and Cancun-Toronto-Montreal. This is also the case with O'Hare (Chicago) and Hartsfield-Jackson (Atlanta) airports.

The geographical location has a lot to do, why do you think airports in isolated cities (Calgary, Melbourne) are busier?

vanatox Jul 8, 2014 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 6645526)
It isn't the same thing, because Toronto is Canada's metropolis and economic capital so lots of people fly there for business from across North America. Plus, lots of flights go through Pearson before being transferred elsewhere. For example, this winter I did Montreal-Toronto-Cancun and Cancun-Toronto-Montreal. This is also the case with O'Hare (Chicago) and Hartsfield-Jackson (Atlanta) airports.

The geographical location has a lot to do, why do you think airports in isolated cities (Calgary, Melbourne) are busier?

You could just have said that there are way more Montrealers and Ottawans going through Pearson than the contrary, Pearson being the largest hub of the country. Toronto also has a larger immigrants population and a demographic that is more likely to travel to the rest of Canada to see family and friends.

Acajack Jul 8, 2014 2:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ue (Post 6645326)

Yeah, I know, but it may just be the perception of some corporates way out in Vancouver, unfamiliar with how Ottawa actually works.

.

That's entirely plausible.


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