No one here does these stats better than you do, Brisavoine... Uh, we're not so well, huh? :( How comes we're not all red like a tomato? Shame. In fact, Spain just pretty much came back down to our level and even below within a tiny couple of years, the time for real estate over there to completely collapse. And overall the US is doing just as good as usual, huh? I bet MI turns red sometime soon... Damn, we're not doing good enough. :brickwall:

^^France has very small net migration, that's why. Thanks to 30+ years of Socialism (big emigration) and Lepenism (small immigration).

Those maps... :slob:
Imagine one using county level for North America (and including all of Europe). But I guess that would take a couple of days work to do? :(

A comparison of Berlin and a territory of the same land area in Paris, based on the results of the 2011 French and German censuses.

http://i39.tinypic.com/214w4ea.png

Evolution of the population since 1872. In 2011, Berlin had as many inhabitants as in 1906, whereas Paris was at its historical peak.

http://i42.tinypic.com/ih5cb8.png

A question for the forumers from Berlin: when you have to deal with the administration, renew some administrative papers, etc, do you have to go to the administrative HQ of one of the 12 Bezirke, or are there some administrative sub-offices at a more local level?

For example if you live in Prenzlauer Berg, which is in the Bezirk Pankow, do you have to go to the central Bezirksamt Pankow or is there a local office in Prenzlauer Berg?

If you live in that neighborhood, where do you go to:
- renew your ID card?
- renew your passport?
- declare a birth or death?
- get your voting papers?
- get your driving license?

Show me your papers ja

Go to your local post office

To everyone here, "Lepenism" == nationalism.

:hell: I tried to shut my mouth in the first place, but I eventually can't help saying how damn right you are, Brisavoine. Those 2 bolded and fugly have been feeding off one another, and they know it even better than we do. They are the very same, the hatred party feeding on scare and issues. We'll tear their ugly ass down. Don't worry too much about that.

You're free to correct us, of course, but I doubt you'll even bother.

And I'd love to hear your arguments that 1. Italy is among the more welcoming countries in Europe for immigrants and 2. that Italy isn't a country directly across the Mediterranean from immigration sources in North Africa.

1. That was not my claim.
2. Irrelevant since we are talking legal immigration and Italy currently takes in most legal immigrants by far. It also has an immigrant as a member of government, something unheard of even in the USA (Madeline Albright notwithstanding).



Now please quit your off topic trolling.

Obama has one immigrant cabinet member. Bush had three.

1. No, this was your claim. I wrote that Italy was one of the less welcoming countries in the EU, and you claimed this was not true.

2. Italy's geographic proximity to North Africa is irrelevant to a discussion of North African migration to Italy? So Finland should get the same number of migrants on boats as Italy?

It is entirely on topic. We are talking in-migration to the EU. You apparently have no constructive response to the topic.

:haha:

You truly are a piece of work. A woman with British parents who came to the US when she was 4. The Bush ones were also people brought to the US by their parents at a very young age. Likewise Madeline Albright. The fact that they are supposed "immigrants" is nothing more than a technicality. They didn't have their education in a foreign land, the decision to come to the US wasn't even their own.

Meanwhile you think you are justified to call Italy, a country that actually does have a immigrant cabinet member in the truest sense of the word (and doesn't pride itself as being some kind of immigrant utopia), one who did came here from a very different background and eduction by her own free will, unwelcoming to immigrants.

Yes, quit your trolling indeed...

And it isn't true. Still doesn't make my claim that Italy is one of the "most welcoming" (though it is depending on definition).


Now it's North African migration all of a sudden? Who said anything about that? Geesh you are thick headed... I'm going to spell it out for you one last time...
Italy currently admits (in absolute numbers) the most immigrants of any EU nation. Its location is utterly irrelevant because if Finland was in Italy's location it wouldn't be admitting that many. Italy admitting that many is a result of its policies not its geography. We are talking about legal immigration (also from other EU states) afterall.

Really? In my experience it is right wing parties that are nationalist and anti immigrant, and left wing 'socialist' parties are liberal and pro immigrant

Germany 2013 with highest net immigration since 1993:

2013 +400.000 (estimated)
2012 +368.945
2011 +279.330
2010 +127.677
.
.

1993 +462.096
1992 +782.071 (record since reunification)
1991 +602.523

Italy, like most European countries has many immigrants, and needs them because of the low birth rate, my original post was referring to illegal immigrants and the eu rules that state that illegal immigrants have to claim asylum in the first eu country they get to, which is usually Italy, Greece or Spain, but many of these immigrants travel straight through Southern Europe to get to Northern Europe. There was a famous immigrant camp on the French coast town of Calais, many of them travel through many countries to get to France, and from there into their final intended destination...Britain. Many immigrants make their way to France, but they are supposed to claim asylum in the first eu country they get to, but they want to be in northern europe, so go to france to get into Britain, so they set up these big tented camps on the coast of calais until they can smuggle themselves into Britain, this has been happening for years and years, it was only after lots of pressure from the British government that France eventually closed the camps. The same thing happens to France aswell, where immigrants want to live in France, so travel through the Mediterranean to get there. This obviously still happens today, when asylum seekers don't want to claim asylum in the first eu country that they get to, so travel to Northern Europe first, then claim asylum there

Then you still lack experience. Politics is sadly often horribly vicious, and that's obviously not the only thing you're clueless about. :D mm?

This thread is about demographics, and if we all want to maintain a healthy and growing population, then we need immigrants, this is true for every eu country, personally I think it has been a good influence on Europe, we now have a much richer and varied society, with many vibrant cultures, anyone who thinks immigration is a bad thing have no idea how western economies work, a stop of immigration would be disastrous

Ooh ouch, that hurt, in fact I'm so dimoralised, indeed if I was French I think I would have surrendered by now;)