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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160247)

Knight Hospitaller May 24, 2017 5:31 PM
^ Indeed an outrage.

Daario May 24, 2017 6:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7813812)
Philly police HQ to move to former Inquirer/Daily News building:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pe...-20170524.html

This means they are abandoning plans to use the former Provident Mutual Life building at 46th & Market which has been undergoing renovations for the past several years.
To me this is an outrage and a betrayal of all the tax paying citizens of the city.
They cannot on the one hand cry poor and raise taxes (soda, property etc) and then on the other hand walk away from a $250M renovation just because the police can’t find their way on the El from 46th St to the courthouse downtown. Obviously the Inquirer building will require tens of millions of dollars of work to transform it into the new roundhouse so not only will they have squandered $250M of tax payer money renovating a building that is going to be severely underused they now plan to throw good money after bad and spend more of the tax payers hard earned dollars.
Well the Inky building is in a much more central location. I'm pretty sure the city is going to put something in the 46th and market property. I can definitely see Kenney's rationale in keeping the PhilaPD in CC.

Capsule F May 24, 2017 6:59 PM
Is this no longer accurate for 401 Race Street?

http://jkrparchitects.com/project/401-race-street/

Knight Hospitaller May 24, 2017 7:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capsule F (Post 7814001)
Is this no longer accurate for 401 Race Street?

http://jkrparchitects.com/project/401-race-street/
No. Much discussed replacement by five floors of apartments.

Noam215 May 24, 2017 7:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daario (Post 7813998)
Well the Inky building is in a much more central location. I'm pretty sure the city is going to put something in the 46th and market property. I can definitely see Kenney's rationale in keeping the PhilaPD in CC.
So you're ok with the city wasting millions of dollars?
Do you pay taxes in philly?
What else could this money be used for?
How about paving more roads, or cleaning more streets or hiring more teachers etc etc etc
Perhaps the centrality of the location should have been considered before the city invested $50M in the renovation of the building at 46th and Market. IMO the location of the headquarters matters little except for the cops that want easy access to 676 and 95.
As to the city "putting something" in the 46th & Market building, for this to make sense the city will have to "put something" in the building that would merit the $50M construction cost, can't think of what that would be-the building is quite large.
And the fact that the building sat mostly empty for so many years speaks to the fact that there is little interest in it from the private sector.

Knight Hospitaller May 24, 2017 7:42 PM
^ Places like W. Philly are where the city should put its money. I have no doubt the Inky building would find a good commercial use in the near future. A city campus in W. Philly would add vibrancy to an area that could use some help while it waits for the U City boom to reach that far.

1487 May 24, 2017 8:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7813812)
Philly police HQ to move to former Inquirer/Daily News building:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pe...-20170524.html

This means they are abandoning plans to use the former Provident Mutual Life building at 46th & Market which has been undergoing renovations for the past several years.
To me this is an outrage and a betrayal of all the tax paying citizens of the city.
They cannot on the one hand cry poor and raise taxes (soda, property etc) and then on the other hand walk away from a $250M renovation just because the police can’t find their way on the El from 46th St to the courthouse downtown. Obviously the Inquirer building will require tens of millions of dollars of work to transform it into the new roundhouse so not only will they have squandered $250M of tax payer money renovating a building that is going to be severely underused they now plan to throw good money after bad and spend more of the tax payers hard earned dollars.
$50M has been spent so far according to the article.

Noam215 May 25, 2017 3:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1487 (Post 7814089)
$50M has been spent so far according to the article.
Correct.
According to what I've read $250M was the initial projection for the total project (later projections increased to $300-$350M)
However:
1-$50M is still a huge sum to spend and then walk away from.
2-If they are to find another use for the 46th & Market building then they will have to continue renovations and spend tens of millions more.
Any way you slice it, it's simply a terrible move by a city government that has numerous serious entrenched problems to address and cannot afford to flush millions of dollars down the drain just because the rank and file cops don't want to commute to West Philly.

1487 May 25, 2017 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7814527)
Correct.
According to what I've read $250M was the initial projection for the total project (later projections increased to $300-$350M)
However:
1-$50M is still a huge sum to spend and then walk away from.
2-If they are to find another use for the 46th & Market building then they will have to continue renovations and spend tens of millions more.
Any way you slice it, it's simply a terrible move by a city government that has numerous serious entrenched problems to address and cannot afford to flush millions of dollars down the drain just because the rank and file cops don't want to commute to West Philly.
I dont really agree with the move but it's premature to say it will cost $50m. The improvements made will make the 4601 building more attractive for other users so it will increase what the city can get for it. I seriously doubt it will be used for city functions at this stage because of it's size. Any departments that would need so much space are already in CC for the most part.

Justin7 May 25, 2017 12:55 PM
They're not walking away from $50M. Nothing is being "flushed down the drain." They still own the building which is now in better condition. They will either put it to use or attempt to sell. Why not let it play out before losing our minds?

Noam215 May 25, 2017 1:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 (Post 7814796)
They're not walking away from $50M. Nothing is being "flushed down the drain." They still own the building which is now in better condition. They will either put it to use or attempt to sell. Why not let it play out before losing our minds?
Because I don't have faith that the city will find a good use for the building (one that will merit the cost) and I am equally skeptical that they will find many interested parties on the private market-if the drive to 46th & Market is too onerous for the cops it will similarly be a deterrent for employers.
But ok, I will table my anger for a couple of years and see who responds to the city's RFP and what the final use is.
But that's how the game is played isn't it, defer conclusions for a couple years until the focus and the heat subside and at worst it's featured in a "remember this" piece in the paper that will lament the wasted funds and deem it a boondoggle for which no one can be held responsible.

giantSwan May 25, 2017 3:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7814842)
Because I don't have faith that the city will find a good use for the building (one that will merit the cost) and I am equally skeptical that they will find many interested parties on the private market-if the drive to 46th & Market is too onerous for the cops it will similarly be a deterrent for employers.
But ok, I will table my anger for a couple of years and see who responds to the city's RFP and what the final use is.
But that's how the game is played isn't it, defer conclusions for a couple years until the focus and the heat subside and at worst it's featured in a "remember this" piece in the paper that will lament the wasted funds and deem it a boondoggle for which no one can be held responsible.
I'm not really into continuing this argument, but I disagree with you completely. I think over time (think 30-50 year horizon), you'll see this ends up being a net positive for the city, the police department, and all residents of Philadelphia.

1487 May 25, 2017 3:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7814842)
Because I don't have faith that the city will find a good use for the building (one that will merit the cost) and I am equally skeptical that they will find many interested parties on the private market-if the drive to 46th & Market is too onerous for the cops it will similarly be a deterrent for employers.
But ok, I will table my anger for a couple of years and see who responds to the city's RFP and what the final use is.
But that's how the game is played isn't it, defer conclusions for a couple years until the focus and the heat subside and at worst it's featured in a "remember this" piece in the paper that will lament the wasted funds and deem it a boondoggle for which no one can be held responsible.
you can hold Kenney responsible when he runs for re-election. At the end of the day the decision falls at his feet. You won't know if the money is wasted until we find out what happens to the building. too early to make a final call at this point.

br323206 May 25, 2017 5:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noam215 (Post 7814842)
Because I don't have faith that the city will find a good use for the building (one that will merit the cost) and I am equally skeptical that they will find many interested parties on the private market-if the drive to 46th & Market is too onerous for the cops it will similarly be a deterrent for employers.
That doesn't make sense. The argument about the drive being onerous is because most police officers live in the Northeast. Employers aren't going to be taking into consideration whether you can get there easily from the Northeast.

jsbrook May 25, 2017 5:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by br323206 (Post 7815082)
That doesn't make sense. The argument about the drive being onerous is because most police officers live in the Northeast. Employers aren't going to be taking into consideration whether you can get there easily from the Northeast.
Well, this is a large building. For such a large building to fill, it's pretty far afield from the Central Business district to attract employers. Even if Schuykill Yards and 30th Street District Plan come to fruition, it will be a little far. I could see this building being hard to find tenants for. I'd just as soon see it turned residential. A mix of market rate and affordable housing. Perhaps some hotel component, but the location may make that difficult for awhile too.

Groundhog May 25, 2017 7:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 7815110)
Well, this is a large building. For such a large building to fill, it's pretty far afield from the Central Business district to attract employers. Even if Schuykill Yards and 30th Street District Plan come to fruition, it will be a little far. I could see this building being hard to find tenants for. I'd just as soon see it turned residential. A mix of market rate and affordable housing. Perhaps some hotel component, but the location may make that difficult for awhile too.
If Schuykill Yards and 30th Street District Plan come to fruition, this will be gobbled up easily, but that's a huge if in the long term. Short term, this will will either sit, be turned residential or be handed over to a cluster of non-profits. I know development is pushing west but this will take years to find a market rate tenant. I could realistically see it coming back ala the Divine Lorrainen in 40 years (hope it's much sooner than that though).

I don't know the full history of the planned move but is this waste of cash the current administration's fault or Nutter's for not listening to the cops in the first place?

hammersklavier May 26, 2017 2:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhog (Post 7815291)
If Schuykill Yards and 30th Street District Plan come to fruition, this will be gobbled up easily, but that's a huge if in the long term. Short term, this will will either sit, be turned residential or be handed over to a cluster of non-profits. I know development is pushing west but this will take years to find a market rate tenant. I could realistically see it coming back ala the Divine Lorrainen in 40 years (hope it's much sooner than that though).

I don't know the full history of the planned move but is this waste of cash the current administration's fault or Nutter's for not listening to the cops in the first place?
Recall that when Nutter started on turning 4601 Market into the Police HQ, the Inky building was part of Blatstein's casino proposal (what was it? the Provence?).

3rd&Brown May 26, 2017 2:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by giantSwan (Post 7814943)
I'm not really into continuing this argument, but I disagree with you completely. I think over time (think 30-50 year horizon), you'll see this ends up being a net positive for the city, the police department, and all residents of Philadelphia.
#1 on the list: Cops parking their personal vehicles up and down Broad Street and along Girard and on the medians.

It will be awesome for Center City.

jsbrook May 26, 2017 10:09 AM
Anyone know what the Rittenhouse Savoy renovation entails? It looks like they are currently removing the first couple rows of yellow brick above each window on the first couple floors. Are they replacing the building's windows with newer, bigger windows?

allovertown May 26, 2017 11:44 AM
Not a great pic but work has finally begun on the corn exchange at 3rd and Arch. News from at least a year ago was it was becoming headquarters for a tech company, i forget the name.

http://img.pixady.com/2017/05/513923...27_460x259.jpg


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