I agree with Bunt
Also, I really think we (and all major U.S. cities) need to start taking BRT seriously. I do not believe we need to hold out for the gold plated infrastructure option. We treat and fund infrastructure as a poor country would (which arguably, we are quickly becoming). Time to start looking at the options a poorer country would look at.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely right on. From here on out, the US should start planning for many millions more without automobiles- not because people don't want a car, but because in real dollars, the cost will become too high. Skeptics might say that this is trying to predict the future, and, IMO 'yes it is', much like good family financing includes medical 'rainy day' coverage. And, in this same vein, as the 'family' gets older (think infrastructure) the cost of new insurance (replacement infrastructure) skyrockets. The issue is not real estate development, political trophies, or public works tools. Instead, the issue IMO is to relentlessly pursue small solutions whether BRT, regular bus, trunk train lines, light rail, etc. I do not see the Nation facing reality, Bunt, on this yet. I just hope we start soon, before we morph into real poverty without the ways to move ourselves emplace. |
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I guess I'm confused where you're talking about, east or west metro. Belleview isn't even a through street, at least not all the way from west to east. On the west side of the metro (where Hampden is a freeway), there's no east-west traffic problem at all. And Belleview only runs from Wadsworth to C-470... that can't be what you're talking about. Between Santa Fe and the Tech Center (Cherry Creek Res) is what I assume you're talking about (but Bowles doesn't go through there). And Belleview from there skirts Cherry Hills Village, which is probably the lowest density (and richest) part of the whole metro, so really the worst possible place you could put good bus service. You drive Belleview there, and you see horses, haha. Traffic may be relatively bad on Hampden there east-west, where it stops being a highway between Santa Fe and I-25. But it's not a good bus corridor either, and you'd have to go up to Evans to find an alternative... south of there, nothing goes through. Maybe a Downtown Littleton to Arapahoe jog? Southeast Aurora might be an interesting improves bus corridor too, probably with some additional park-n-rides. From E-470 up Smoky Hill and E. Hampden (or Quincy), both feeding into Nine Mile? |
I'm all for putting lots of big stinky buses on Belleview, for absolutely no other reason but to punish Cherry Hills Village for screwing over the entire southern metro area by putting their low-density mansions close to the tech center.
Oh, want to know why traffic is bad? Because those a-holes took up all the land close to the biggest job center in the state, so everyone else has to drive in from far away rather than live close by. It's seriously completely backwards from good planning. 1/2 mile from the center of the tech center the damn City of Cherry Hills Village has zoning at 1 unit per every 2.5 acres. Here's the zoning map; see for yourself. They're screwing us over, and we should punish them for it. We need to build a trash dump somewhere down there. |
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Aaron (Glowrock) |
Anyway, if you really wanted to plan a MetroRapid-type system, the way to start would be to get a list of the busiest RTD bus lines. Take the dozen-or-so busiest and put them at the top of your list for upgrades.
Do we have that info? I'd like to see ridership for bus lines anyway. Interesting stuff. |
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RTD, to my knowledge, doesn't put the bus ridership info on the website yet. Last I knew, the numbers were still in a stone age database system that wasn't compatible with anything (probably not even DOS). But it's out there. For a start, though, we can look at where we have limited routes. Those would be our first-tier MetroRapid-like urban routes. Also, we could look at where a number of express routes come together and use the same roads (especially when overlapping with a limited route, or a well-trafficked local route). I suppose you could do a trunk BRT, if not dedicated ROW, then at least signal priority, and let those routes branch out after that. Enough suburban commuter routes and a local route together might add up to something worthwhile for round two. |
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Sure, CHV density sucks from an urbanist perspective, but it's anachronistic to suggest that CHV grew after the DTC did. |
Lol
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You are a modern Jonathan Swift! My favorite bus corridor is along Colorado Blvd, north from the light rail station to Colfax. This is home to the mighty #40, which serves one of the busiest urban streets in Denver. Doubling the frequency would help proposed Leedsdale developments as well as make the old CU med complex much more interconnected. To make the Mighty 40 work even better, link the bus to timed buses running down 14th and 15th Streets- much faster than running up and down Colfax- giving riders north of 6th or so, an alternative to back tracking south on Colorado Blvd, and, then catching the light rail to Lodo. Sure the bus would be slow during the morning and afternoon rush, but the corridor accesses a large number of businesses and a sizable population. |
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Whether the chicken or the egg came first really doesn't matter. The two are inextricably linked. It's not specific to Denver. It's the same issue with many of the country's largest edge cities. |
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The proximity of residential areas is not a problem for DTC. The problem is that the residential areas it is proximate to are extremely low density. |
The big difference is Downtown Denver developed as a result of the surrounding density, whereas the Tech Center was developed artificially, in the middle of a low density area, and did nothing to promote density. The areas developed in two fundamentally different ways. CHV and/or its low density had nothing to do with how the Tech Center came to be, so I don't see how "screwing them over" accomplishes anything. The area was low density and farmland before the Tech Center was built and remains so today.
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You don't mess with the rich...even in Denver
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The poshness of the Cherry Hills communities transportation wise is very visible on Quincy, which a) goes over I-25 without on and off ramps, and, b) intersects Tamarac which, going south, becomes DTC Parkway. The TRex project was a compromise to adding value to the real estate east of I-25 while not running the rail on the east side of I-25. South of the Yale Street Station, access is under or over I-25. Another sign of the influence of wealth……… The only work around, best tested in South Africa during the Apartheid days, is to a) have express trains that bypass worker bee stations, and b) have segregated platforms with police enforcement. And dirty buses? H**l no! Hydrogen powered custom services which pickup you up at your door? Possibly, as long as the drivers are neatly groomed, don't stink, and know how to say “Yes, sir,” and “Yes, ma’am” Ok, Cherry Hills Village and Greenwood Village will never want to be a part of any PUBLIC transportation system. Put systems where the worker bees live and connect them with communal hive(s): areas like Aurora, Lakewood, Denver East, etc. Help the burgeoning poor commute, not just to downtown, Boulder, and, the tech center, but to employment centers like malls, military bases, city and county government buildings, and factories (if there are any left…). One last point: Areas like Cherry Hills Village have their counterparts worldwide, and, I bet most are set up much the same way. |
Yes, as I said it is not specific to Denver. But we as planners should not be letting them get away with it. At least make them pay property taxes out the nose to the city to cover the damage they're doing... Oh wait! They don't have to, because they formed their own little jurisdiction so they wouldn't have to pay Denver taxes to help solve the problems they created!
When bunt_q is governor I expect to see a municipal reform bill that retrocedes bullshit jurisdictions like Lakeside and Cherry Hills Village into Denver, so they can darn well pay their fair share to the region. |
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Aaron (Glowrock) |
Somebody want to put this into a bulleted list for me, for the campaign? I'm afraid I might forget to end the kentucky blue-hay exemption if I don't write this down now.
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