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ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 1:08 PM

There is also a Japan > Prince Edward Island market because of the “Anne Of Green Gables” story….and for awhile Northwest Airlines offered a Detroit > Charlottetown service timed to connect with the Tokyo flight in Detroit. Air Canada now has this market through YYZ.

Today on PEI….you are just as apt to see signs in Japanese as well as English/French especially in the National Park.

Japan Airlines had a non-stop NRT-YHR flight a couple of years ago so with the new investment from the province…….there’s probably a market there to develop possibly along with PEI:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax...nada-tour.html

thenoflyzone Apr 1, 2018 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139545)
Perhaps a Halifax > Asia service is not all that far-fetched!

Asia and particularly China are already the #1 market for Nova Scotia Lobster ….

https://halifaxstanfield.ca/2018/02/...cotia-lobster/

On the Cargo side…. Korean Air, Yangtze River (Suprana) Airlines, Atlas Cargo (as well as Qatar Airlines) already serve Halifax. Perhaps a Chinese Airline (passenger) can be encouraged to give YHZ a try when they are guaranteed a belly full of Lobster anyway.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/busines...to-south-korea

Currently there is land development aimed at the Asia market taking place along Nova Scotia’s Eastern Shore just 2 hours from YHZ……and one just needs to look at what happened with Germany not so long ago when land developers in the Maritimes and especially Nova Scotia began selling in Europe. Now we have Condor offering 4 wide bodies a week during the summer into Halifax plus the numerous connections available on Icelandair through KEF.

Some days this summer there will be up to six transatlantic flights a day out of Halifax. Not bad for a city of 400,000!

Still pretty far-fetched.

The lobsters are already taken care of with cargo flights. Anne of green gables can be taken care of with one off Japanese charter flights.

YHZ is going to need more than 11 million to persuade an Asia carrier to commence passenger service there.

What YHZ has to Europe cannot easily be transposed to YHZ-Asia. Whole set of different dynamics at play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139559)
Air Canada now has this market through YYZ.

as of June, YYG-NRT will be fastest through YUL. (total trip 16h45 min)

YYG-HND (through YYZ) is a much longer flight, close to 20 hours (due to a 5.5 hour layover at YYZ), not to mention probably more expensive, since HND commands a premium over NRT.

YYG-YUL is 4x daily in the summer, YYG-YYZ is only 2x daily, albeit with bigger equipment. The flights on the latter aren't optimized to connect well with YYZ-HND.

ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8139632)
Still pretty far-fetched.

Yeah....probably the same was said a few years ago about the European market! Now 4 wide-bodies a week on Condor alone.

thenoflyzone Apr 1, 2018 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139644)
Yeah....probably the same was said a few years ago about the European market! Now 4 wide-bodies a week on Condor alone.

YHZ-Europe is a sizable O&D, is doable in 5, 6 hours, on narrow-body aircraft if needed, thus keeping the costs in check. Plus connections with North american carriers involve a decent backtrack. Hence the market case for non stop YHZ-Europe.

None of this is applicable to YHZ-Asia. So again, not the same dynamics.

And Condor has been operating seasonal YHZ-FRA for years now, it is nothing new. If anything, after all these years of flying to FRA (and now MUC), they still can't do a daily service. That should tell you something about a potential YHZ-Asia flight.

ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8139657)
If anything, after all these years of flying to FRA (and now MUC), they still can't do a daily service. That should tell you something about a potential YHZ-Asia flight.

Yes....well aware of that. Even YUL can't support year 'round daily service to some markets....and they have 10 times the population!

thenoflyzone Apr 1, 2018 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139684)
Yes....well aware of that. Even YUL can't support year 'round daily service to some markets....and they have 10 times the population!

I'm not even talking about year round daily. I'm talking about seasonal daily service, as DE is only seasonal. And they have since stopped serving MUC-YHZ.

Logically, the next Canadian cities to get non stop service to Asia are YOW and YEG. And even those two have a slim chance of getting one, much less YHZ.

ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 8:52 PM

As I said....Montreal with 10 times the pop of Halifax can't support daily year round (or even daily seasonal) to some markets.

Blader Apr 1, 2018 9:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139871)
As I said....Montreal with 10 times the pop of Halifax can't support daily year round (or even daily seasonal) to some markets.

I'm confused, what does that have to do with anything!
Montreal is booming and Halifax, Calgary, and many other places are coasting.

The fact that Montréal can't presently service all conceivable markets is irrelevant. It services a lot and it's growing. The halcyon days for Montréal.

someone123 Apr 1, 2018 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139871)
As I said....Montreal with 10 times the pop of Halifax can't support daily year round (or even daily seasonal) to some markets.

Another big factor in Atlantic Canada is that driving to other places in North America takes a long time. A lot of people travelling from Montreal to Toronto or New York will drive, while similar trips from Nova Scotia or Newfoundland are almost all by air.

It's already been mentioned that YHZ is a hub for Atlantic Canada. This is why it has around 1/4 the traffic of YUL and not 1/10 the traffic of YUL. Even if YHZ were not a hub for Atlantic Canada, it would be used by many people outside of metro Halifax. There are around 600,000 people within an hour or so of the airport, and the airport is not centrally located in the metro area.

I don't really have a strong guess either way about flights to Asia. But if the province is investing money in it they have probably had some kind of professional advice that it is worthwhile for some reason. And virtually any time something like this is proposed for Halifax, the Maritimes, or Atlantic Canada, there is a chorus of voices from other parts of Canada explaining why it is impossible.

ghYHZ Apr 1, 2018 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 8139892)
I'm confused, what does that have to do with anything!
Montreal is booming and Halifax, Calgary, and many other places are coasting.

Only said in a response to 'thenoflyzone' that YHZ with 1/10th the pop of Montreal can't support daily service to FRA in summer.

Quote:

The fact that Montréal can't presently service all conceivable markets is irrelevant. It services a lot and it's growing. The halcyon days for Montréal.
And I'll say the same for YHZ. Over 4 million pass in '17 + new TATL services announced for the summer with up to 6 a day crossing the pond some days. (so not bad for a city of 400,000)

thenoflyzone Apr 2, 2018 2:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 8139908)
virtually any time something like this is proposed for Halifax, the Maritimes, or Atlantic Canada, there is a chorus of voices from other parts of Canada explaining why it is impossible.

Impossible, no. Highly improbable, yes.

G.S MTL Apr 2, 2018 2:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139871)
As I said....Montreal with 10 times the pop of Halifax can't support daily year round (or even daily seasonal) to some markets.

LOL just like many other major airports in Canada like YVR YYZ that can’t support a daily year round or seasonal daily to some markets ...YHZ, Asian route? ... LOL like when do I stop laughing? .

Alexcaban Apr 2, 2018 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8139632)
Still pretty far-fetched.

The lobsters are already taken care of with cargo flights. Anne of green gables can be taken care of with one off Japanese charter flights.

YHZ is going to need more than 11 million to persuade an Asia carrier to commence passenger service there.

What YHZ has to Europe cannot easily be transposed to YHZ-Asia. Whole set of different dynamics at play.



as of June, YYG-NRT will be fastest through YUL. (total trip 16h45 min)

YYG-HND (through YYZ) is a much longer flight, close to 20 hours (due to a 5.5 hour layover at YYZ), not to mention probably more expensive, since HND commands a premium over NRT.

YYG-YUL is 4x daily in the summer, YYG-YYZ is only 2x daily, albeit with bigger equipment. The flights on the latter aren't optimized to connect well with YYZ-HND.

Actually AC really beefed up service to YYG from YUL is this summer.

2 rouge A319s and 1 morning CRJ.

zahav Apr 2, 2018 4:50 PM

I could see YHZ getting an Asia route at some point, I'm not sure whether that would be PEK or NRT though, or what frequency, but I wouldn't say it's that far fetched... The thing with Japan is that it isn't a high growth market at all, international service to Japan from most countries has either been stagnant (or declining in some cases) for years. It's kind of hard to imagine YHZ getting regular scheduled service to Japan. China is a different story, unfortunately I think the bilateral is maxed out (as others have said) so unlikely in the short term. YHZ's proximity to YUL wouldn't help either, as they have the same links to other east coast points, and have service to the big Asian markets.

The YYC-NRT route is an odd one as well. As most already know, it is actually referred to as a YYZ-NRT "direct" flight (for any non-AV geeks, if a flight and flight # continues from one destination to another with a stop in between, they can call it "direct" but not "non stop", so if you see flights called "direct" they will have service between cities before the final destination). So it is YYZ-YYC-NRT. Again like with the YYZ-HNL flight being operated just to claim global reach, I have a feeling it is more so AC can say it flies direct to both airports in Tokyo from its hub in Toronto. Because really, AC flies non-stop to HND from YYZ, so the weird stopover in YYC just to connect to NRT isn't a sell for a lot of people. I feel like if there is sufficient demand to have non-stop YYZ-NRT service on top of YYZ-HND, they would do that rather than keep up the YYC routing. Of course for YYC, they'd want to hold onto this route for dear life. However I could definitely see WS pouncing on it. Interestingly, AC has kept the 767 on the YYC-YYZ routing after NRT ends in October, at basically the same departure time. But now with a regular domestic flight # AC144

Zmonkey Apr 2, 2018 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 8139559)
There is also a Japan > Prince Edward Island market because of the “Anne Of Green Gables” story….and for awhile Northwest Airlines offered a Detroit > Charlottetown service timed to connect with the Tokyo flight in Detroit. Air Canada now has this market through YYZ.

Today on PEI….you are just as apt to see signs in Japanese as well as English/French especially in the National Park.

Japan Airlines had a non-stop NRT-YHR flight a couple of years ago so with the new investment from the province…….there’s probably a market there to develop possibly along with PEI:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax...nada-tour.html

Just an FYI that NRT- YHR were charter flights.

thenoflyzone Apr 2, 2018 6:29 PM

Well, YHZ has until 2024 to spend the $11 million given to them by the provincial government. If I were a betting man, I'd say they have zero chance of getting a Japanese, Chinese or any Asian carrier to launch scheduled passenger service to YHZ in that time frame.

1. AC/WS will not launch YHZ-Asia, that is a given.
2. Chinese carriers are maxed out in Canada, and even if more access was granted, they would increase frequency at YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC, or launch YOW/YEG before attempting to launch anything out of YHZ. No $11 million will change that fact.
3. No Japanese carrier will launch scheduled passenger service to YHZ. For one, ANA and JL dont even serve YYZ, YUL or YYC, and their aircraft are very premium heavy. JL has less than 200 seats on all their dreamliners, including the B789. This is the main reason why you only see them in YVR, and not anywhere else.
4. Just in case YHZ was thinking about western Asia, the ME3 are also maxed out in Canada, and would up frequency elsewhere if given the chance. So that won't work either.

So what else is left? Nothing. That's what !

The smart thing for YHZ to do is to concentrate their efforts on the US or Europe, and lure in another carrier from there.

Leave the lobsters to cargo flights, and anne of green gables to charter flights.

thenoflyzone Apr 2, 2018 6:47 PM

Speaking of Japanese carriers.....now that YYC-NRT might be ending, they would stand a better chance at taking over YYC-NRT than starting a route to YHZ.

Blader Apr 2, 2018 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8140536)
Speaking of Japanese carriers.....now that YYC-NRT might be ending, they would stand a better chance at taking over YYC-NRT than starting a route to YHZ.

That's the nub! It's about profitability, positioning relative to the competition, and peering into the future. Immediate, mid-term, long-term. Resources are limited, thus deployment necessitates compromise. Right now, it's speculation. No deep dive.

Cage Apr 2, 2018 9:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 8137793)
I'm surprised they're not higher. Canadian airports are much better than American airports in almost every way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8138180)
I'm not sure exactly what criteria they used to rank these airports. I haven't flown through DEN or IAH yet, but from personal experience I wouldn't rank YVR as number one. DTW is far better in my opinion.

Here is the short story summary of Skytrax award:

Quote:

The 2018 Awards are based on 13.73 million airport survey questionnaires completed by over 100 different nationalities of airline customers during the survey period. The survey operated from August 2017 to February 2018, covering 550 airports worldwide and evaluating traveller experiences across different airport service and product key performance indicators - from check-in, arrivals, transfers, shopping, security and immigration through to departure at the gate. The Survey was available in English, Spanish and Chinese language options.
The key qualifier for Skytrax, the reviewer must prove or at least indicate they flew through the airport during the survey period. DEN and CVG rank high because their international processing facilities are not crammed wall to wall compared to LAX, SFO, EWR, ORD, ATL, JFK, etc.

YVR traditionally does well because they cater to Chinese travellers and Skytrax has a Chinese version of the questionnaire. Finally, Chinese travellers love their shopping and YVR caters to this market better than any other North American Airport.

LeftCoaster Apr 2, 2018 10:27 PM

Lux shopping at YVR is almost better than downtown!


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