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-   -   Will Virginia lose it's southern status? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245214)

Acajack Dec 29, 2020 2:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Docere (Post 9143884)
My point is that most of the South is only really semi-Southern anyway in a cultural sense (Texas, Florida, West Virginia, much of Virginia etc.)

Much of the South is very much "mainstream America." Transplants and "change" aren't at all marginal to the region.

This makes me think of the "alien" factor. While other Americans (say "Yankees" - am I allowed to say that? :runaway:) may not partake in certain elements of Southern culture like NASCAR or grits or whistlin' Dixie or Jeff Foxworthy comedy, these things will still be familiar to them.

In the case of Quebec, the vast majority of its culture is basically foreign to other Canadians. In many cases they aren't even aware of its existence. Let alone being aware of some rough details (like NYers would at least be about Southern culture). I have actually had "other Canadians" (admittedly not the sharpest tools in the shed) argue with me that Quebec doesn't have a feature film industry, its own game shows and talk shows, etc. These people think that Quebec being different and "French" (sic) just means watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Captain Marvel dubbed in French.

JManc Dec 29, 2020 3:02 PM

^ Quebec: hockey, bagels, poutine, Celine Dion and the reason why road signs in northern New York and Vermont are in French. Oh, and William Shatner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liat91 (Post 9144292)
I agree that Virginia now looks more towards the NE than south. Parts of it are southern, but so are parts of Maryland and even Pennsylvania.

Once Richmond no longer feels strongly southern, Virginia clearly joins the NE. Same with Jacksonville in Florida, once it flips, there can be no argument that the state is no longer southern. The rest of the historical south is still pretty solid with mainstream islands within.

What? No. Not being southern won't make it northern. If VA banned sweet tea, grits and antebellum architecture, it would not be become northeast.

NoVA feels like most major metropolitan areas; the regional quirks have been flattened out with newcomers from other elsewhere. Hell, NYC is becoming a watered down version of its former self. I think eventually, most major cities will be tied to their region and become generic America with the areas surrounding them retaining their identities.

PhillyRising Dec 29, 2020 4:16 PM

One is assuming that all southern states are the same culturally......I can't imagine Virginia and Mississippi were ever the same in every aspect.

Northern Virginia feels like a Northeastern Metropolis. Once you get below Stafford it feels more "traditional" southern. I didn't feel like Richmond was some southern backwater...but it's not as high end as Fairfax County. I haven't been to Virginia Beach in 38 years.

As for Delaware...it used to feel southern once you crossed over the canal but now with so many new homes being built and occupied from new arrivals from New Jersey and points north along the now completed Route 1 expressway that goes from I-95 in Christiana (just south of Wilmington) to Just Above Lewes/Rehoboth Beach...the Northeast Corridor has crept all the way towards Dover and the Beach Towns were not very "southern" Now any town below Dover along US 13 feels more southern...and the accents sound more southern.

Acajack Dec 29, 2020 4:27 PM

The last time I was in Virginia was maybe 2 years ago on a hot summer day, driving up I-95 and on the dirt frontage road just off the Interstate I spotted a jacked-up pickup with a bunch of guys in cut off jean jackets and girls in daisy dukes and the truck had a Confederate flag waving from the roof.

You can't make this up!

This was of course further than closer to the DC metro area.

jd3189 Dec 29, 2020 5:46 PM

We could also consider the reality that traditional Southern culture ( hillbillies, country, religious, social conservativism, etc) is seen in rural areas nationwide, beyond the geographical limits of the South. In that case, the more urban a place become, the less "Southern" it is.

Docere Dec 29, 2020 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9144432)
^ Quebec: hockey, bagels, poutine, Celine Dion and the reason why road signs in northern New York and Vermont are in French. Oh, and William Shatner.



What? No. Not being southern won't make it northern. If VA banned sweet tea, grits and antebellum architecture, it would not be become northeast.

NoVA feels like most major metropolitan areas; the regional quirks have been flattened out with newcomers from other elsewhere. Hell, NYC is becoming a watered down version of its former self. I think eventually, most major cities will be tied to their region and become generic America with the areas surrounding them retaining their identities.

Yes, it's becoming more "standardized American" not "Northeastern."

SIGSEGV Dec 29, 2020 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 9144517)
We could also consider the reality that traditional Southern culture ( hillbillies, country, religious, social conservativism, etc) is seen in rural areas nationwide, beyond the geographical limits of the South. In that case, the more urban a place become, the less "Southern" it is.

Yep, going down Route 66 from Chicago, as soon as you hit Wilmington you see confederate flags and NASCAR:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3094...7i16384!8i8192

Buckeye Native 001 Dec 29, 2020 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9144678)
Yep, going down Route 66 from Chicago, as soon as you hit Wilmington you see confederate flags and NASCAR:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3094...7i16384!8i8192

Hell, that's everywhere. I've seen it in Ohio, Arizona and even California.

Acajack Dec 29, 2020 8:24 PM

Hence all the comments about such and such a rural part of a northern U.S. state being "Alabama, only with snow".

SIGSEGV Dec 29, 2020 8:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 (Post 9144687)
Hell, that's everywhere. I've seen it in Ohio, Arizona and even California.

yeah, this is literally the first town outside the Chicago Metro area :haha:

JManc Dec 29, 2020 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001 (Post 9144687)
Hell, that's everywhere. I've seen it in Ohio, Arizona and even California.

and New York, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut...

lio45 Dec 29, 2020 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 9144517)
We could also consider the reality that traditional Southern culture ( hillbillies, country, religious, social conservativism, etc) is seen in rural areas nationwide, beyond the geographical limits of the South. In that case, the more urban a place become, the less "Southern" it is.

That's true everywhere: the more urban a place, the more "culturally international" / the less "culturally local" it'll be.

jd3189 Dec 29, 2020 11:24 PM

^^^ So based on that definition train, NYC is not Northeastern, Chicago is not Midwestern, LA and SF are not Western, etc.

DCReid Dec 30, 2020 7:52 PM

Well, talk about Virginia - here's some news about Maryland...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ry/ar-BB1cm8N0


Maryland House leader pledges repeal of state song over Confederate imagery -

The Speaker of Maryland's House of Delegates said Tuesday that the legislature will pass a bill repealing the status of "Maryland, My Maryland," as the state's official song due to its Confederate themes and negative depiction of former President Lincoln....

JManc Dec 30, 2020 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 9144838)
^^^ So based on that definition train, NYC is not Northeastern, Chicago is not Midwestern, LA and SF are not Western, etc.

They are becoming less so over time. Urban America is becoming homogenous. Houston was redneck and honky tonk when I was a kid but now pretty much like any other major US city. New York is far less New York than it used to be.

DCReid Jan 5, 2021 9:59 PM

Well this is surprising - US census even considers Delaware part of the South!

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf

Steely Dan Jan 6, 2021 4:21 PM

last night's georgia surprise had me going back to Manitopiaaa's awesome MSA election results thread and i realized something i didn't fully appreciate about VA's blue shift.

we all know that the biggest driver of that shift is and has been NOVA, but a big reason why the state wasn't even close is the fact that the #2 and #3 MSAs (richmond and virginia beach) were also very safely blue.

in fact, richmond's MSA, with a +14.7 for biden, was bluer than all other major midwest/rustbelt metros with the exception of chicago and the twin cities. yes, the richmond MSA was even ever so slightly bluer than metro detroit and metro cleveland, and virginia beach was only a fraction of a point behind them. color me surprised.

Acajack Jan 6, 2021 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCReid (Post 9150230)
Well this is surprising - US census even considers Delaware part of the South!

https://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/map.../us_regdiv.pdf

It always has been in my mind. Just like Maryland.

Most of Delaware is south of Mason-Dixon.


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