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-   -   NEW YORK | Central Park Tower (Nordstrom)| 1,550 FT | 131 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191095)

NYguy Dec 7, 2014 1:45 PM

That 15 Penn conversation has been moved over here...

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...162701&page=53




http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...lics-roar-back

Retailing relics roar back
Department stores are thriving in a city where they were once written off, aided by a wave of tourists and a clutch of big new developments.



http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...MaxW=640&q=100

BY ADRIANNE PASQUARELLI
DECEMBER 7, 2014


Quote:

First, Nordstrom announced it would open its inaugural New York City store on West 57th Street. Neiman Marcus followed, unveiling plans for its first New York store, a 250,000-square-foot flagship at Hudson Yards, west of Penn Station. Saks Fifth Avenue said it plans to open its second Manhattan outpost, at Brookfield Place downtown, and Nordstrom is already said to be shopping for a second store, in lower Manhattan.

Not since the days of Miracle on 34th Street, when the Macy's Santa famously directed shoppers to archrival Gimbels, has New York City been such a department-store town.
Fueled by more than 50 million tourists pouring into the city annually, record high employment and spending, along with a bumper crop of huge new real estate developments, department-store growth shows no signs of slowing. Their return comes at a time when the rise of omni-channel retailing—in which consumers can buy via the Web, shop at stores and browse by smartphone—has made a brick-and-mortar presence more vital than ever.

A decade ago, when Bloomingdale's opened a second location, in SoHo, many wondered if there were enough high-end shoppers to go around. These days, stores are doing everything they can to cash in on the growth. Barneys New York will open its second store next year, in Chelsea. Macy's and Bergdorf Goodman are lavishing millions of dollars on multiyear renovations designed to lure the coveted millennial shopper and stay ahead of the ever-expanding pack.

Few could have predicted such a turnaround. The department store, as a retail species, had its urban heyday in the early 20th century and spent much of the last half in a state of decline. Long gone are the once venerable Abraham & Straus, Gimbels, B. Altman & Co., Alexander's and Bonwit Teller. The big chains turned their backs on city flagships in favor of outposts at suburban shopping malls. Brands specializing in books, clothing and electronics expanded into stand-alone shops that cannibalized department stores' sales.

.....But in recent years, department stores have seen a Big Apple renaissance as growth in suburban malls has stalled. The stores have become more tech-savvy to reach a greater variety of shoppers. Macy's, which also owns Bloomingdale's, has reinvented itself by building a powerful e-commerce arm that few rivals can match, and by filling its stores with merchandise tailored to local markets. It's also spending $400 million on a renovation of its Herald Square flagship, to be completed next year.

Others are making digital inroads as well. Seattle-based Nordstrom, which reported $12.5 billion in revenue last year, expects e-commerce sales, as well as sales from its discount chain, Rack, to make up half of all sales in the next five years. Nordstrom's stock has soared more than 20% in the past 12 months.

Retail experts say its store on West 57th Street—285,000 square feet on seven floors that Nordstrom reportedly spent $103 million to buy—will advertise its namesake brand when the shop opens in 2018, leading to higher Web traffic in addition to brick-and-mortar buyers.

"Just that very presence will drive [purchases] on their website, because of the amount of eyeballs thinking of Nordstrom on a daily basis—the marketing in bus shelters or on taxis," said Mortimer Singer, chief executive of Marvin Traub Associates, a retail-focused consulting firm.


.....At the same time, a number of developers have made attracting high-profile department stores a priority at their multibillion-dollar projects, betting that the right store can set the tone for the lucrative retail portions of their properties. In Hudson Yards, the 1 million-square foot complex where Dallas-based Neiman Marcus will occupy floors five through seven when it opens in 2018, developer Related Cos. will reap higher rents by leasing upper floors to a retailer rather than an office tenant.

Because it will be the first and only Neiman Marcus in the city, the store is expected to become a shopping destination. According to a spokeswoman for Neiman, the chain, which also owns Bergdorf, wasn't looking to open a store in Manhattan until it was approached by Hudson Yards' developer with an offer too good to refuse.

The new developments at Hudson Yards and the tower that will rise on West 57th Street give Neiman and Nordstrom the relatively rare opportunity in older urban areas to design their own dream spaces.

Already, the prospect of Neiman at Hudson Yards is attracting shops to an area growing with residents. Brokers say other luxury brands—jewelry shops, apparel companies—are also interested in leasing space west of Seventh Avenue on 57th Street, a strip never before sought after.

"The department stores are taking root in New York City's fastest-growing residential neighborhoods," said Ed Hogan, national director of retail leasing at Brookfield Office Properties, which has signed on Saks to anchor its Brookfield Place mall across from the World Trade Center. He noted that there has long been a paucity of luxury department stores downtown.

Zapatan Dec 7, 2014 5:12 PM

It seems almost too good to be true that this thing is really u/c and that NY and the US will have a new highest roof.

We're long overdue though and this building has grown on me a lot so I'm stoked to see it rise. :)

Onn Dec 7, 2014 6:40 PM

I wish they would stop calling Nordstrom and other retailers "brick and motor" stores. It sounds so old fashioned and it's not that. There's plenty of potential for department stores. I'm happy for Nordstrom and New York and Extell!

antinimby Dec 7, 2014 7:11 PM

^ Good point. I don't think there will be a time in the foreseeable future where clothing sales online will ever overtake physical stores. Unlike electronics, apparel needs to bought in person.

Crawford Dec 7, 2014 9:08 PM

That means Manhattan is getting five new department stores-

Neiman Marcus- Hudson Yards
Barneys- Chelsea
Saks- Brookfield Place
Nordstrom- 225 West 57th
Nordstrom- One Wall Street

photoLith Dec 7, 2014 10:01 PM

I don't understand why Neiman Marcus and such are such a huge deal in nyc. To me growing up they looked just like macys.

hunser Dec 8, 2014 12:46 AM

I really hope the parapet will break the 1,500 foot mark. The tower sits on a higher ground than most towers, especially when compared to 1WTC. Sure will look pretty impressive on the skyline.

Perklol Dec 8, 2014 4:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunser (Post 6834929)
I really hope the parapet will break the 1,500 foot mark. The tower sits on a higher ground than most towers, especially when compared to 1WTC. Sure will look pretty impressive on the skyline.

1,500' roof/parapet :yes:

chris08876 Dec 8, 2014 4:49 AM

Even though this technically in the eyes of the CTBUH shorter than 1WTC, what's important is the roof height. Almost 50 feet taller to the roof than the Sears, and we all know how imposing Sears is.

Zapatan Dec 8, 2014 5:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6835157)
Even though this technically in the eyes of the CTBUH shorter than 1WTC, what's important is the roof height. Almost 50 feet taller to the roof than the Sears, and we all know how imposing Sears is.

1775' is really dumb honestly, they should pass the CN tower at 1815 to have highest freestanding structure in the Western world while their at it.

Am I the only one who thinks it's too good to be true that it really would end up around the original 15-1550 range? Most of the really tall cool proposals in the US get scrapped for something shorter.

Onn Dec 8, 2014 5:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835197)
1775' is really dumb honestly, they should pass the CN tower at 1815 to have highest freestanding structure in the Western world while their at it.

Am I the only one who thinks it's too good to be true that it really would end up around the original 15-1550 range? Most of the really tall cool proposals in the US get scrapped for something shorter.

The height will be passed, its just 9/11, WTC rebuilding, and 1WTC are still fresh in everyone's minds right now. There would obviously be criticism if 1WTC was topped so soon, its not happening right now. You'll just have to be patient. :)

gramsjdg Dec 8, 2014 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835197)
1775' is really dumb honestly, they should pass the CN tower at 1815 to have highest freestanding structure in the Western world while their at it.

Am I the only one who thinks it's too good to be true that it really would end up around the original 15-1550 range? Most of the really tall cool proposals in the US get scrapped for something shorter.



I think this depends upon whether the actual roof is 1490 ft. The "summer 2014" version had the parapet at 1478' and the actual roof at 1428'. If the design is the same and the actual roof is now 1490, then the parapet should in theory be 1540'-1550'.

NYguy Dec 8, 2014 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 6834749)
I don't understand why Neiman Marcus and such are such a huge deal in nyc. To me growing up they looked just like macys.

They are a huge deal in Manhattan because it is the pulse of retail and these stores have tried for years to find a location to open, unlike stores like Macy's or Bloomingdales, which have signature, iconic locations. It is a VERY huge deal that these stores are opening in Manhattan, more so even for the Nordstrom opening than the tower itself. People won't care as much about another supertall coming to the skyline, but a new super department store? They'll be lined up for the opening. Mark my words.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6835202)
The height will be passed, its just 9/11, WTC rebuilding, and 1WTC are still fresh in everyone's minds right now. There would obviously be criticism if 1WTC was topped so soon, its not happening right now. You'll just have to be patient. :)

No one cares about any of that, not the man on the street, not the developers. If a developer wants to top it, it'll be topped. Remember, Gary Barnett didn't want a spire at all on the building. If he'd have stuck with that, it wouldn't be approaching the Freedom Tower's height at all. Since other towers have popped up with increasing height, they've added a spire. But Barnett was never aiming to build the tallest tower in town.

Zapatan Dec 8, 2014 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gramsjdg (Post 6835678)
I think this depends upon whether the actual roof is 1490 ft. The "summer 2014" version had the parapet at 1478' and the actual roof at 1428'. If the design is the same and the actual roof is now 1490, then the parapet should in theory be 1540'-1550'.

Well, let's hope that's the case although 1490' is a great height to either the roof or parapet.

I'm not trying to be overly negative or anything it's just that issues usually arise when something this tall gets proposed. It's u/c though which is a step in the right direction :cheers:

NYguy Dec 8, 2014 5:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835686)
I'm not trying to be overly negative or anything it's just that issues usually arise when something this tall gets proposed.

It's a non-issue that plays out in your own mind. Towers have been decreased in height, and towers have been increased in height. And every one is on an individual basis.

Crawford Dec 8, 2014 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6835197)
Most of the really tall cool proposals in the US get scrapped for something shorter.

Could you name some of these towers? I can only think of one that was slightly shortened by a developer, 3 WTC.

Every other building I can think of got taller. 432 Park, 225 W. 57, Two Hudson Yards, One Vanderbilt, Steinway Tower, etc.

Crawford Dec 8, 2014 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 6834749)
I don't understand why Neiman Marcus and such are such a huge deal in nyc. To me growing up they looked just like macys.

Neiman Marcus has nothing to do with Macys. They sell totally different merchandise.

It's a fairly big deal because there are almost no cities in the U.S. with downtown department stores, and NYC, on top of the dozen or so major Manhattan flagships, is basically getting another half-dozen major department stores. Nothing like this has happened in the past century or so (almost all the existing department stores were built long ago).

Submariner Dec 8, 2014 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6835701)
Could you name some of these towers? I can only think of one that was slightly shortened by a developer, 3 WTC.

Every other building I can think of got taller. 432 Park, 225 W. 57, Two Hudson Yards, One Vanderbilt, Steinway Tower, etc.

HU north, One57 and Tower Verre come to mind.

Not that I'm complaining though...the development going on right now is fantastic.

JustSomeGuyWho Dec 8, 2014 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6835706)
Neiman Marcus has nothing to do with Macys. They sell totally different merchandise.

It's a fairly big deal because there are almost no cities in the U.S. with downtown department stores, and NYC, on top of the dozen or so major Manhattan flagships, is basically getting another half-dozen major department stores. Nothing like this has happened in the past century or so (almost all the existing department stores were built long ago).

Well, off the top of my head outside of NYC there is Macy's in downtown Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Cincinnati and Chicago, Neiman Marcus in downtown Dallas and Chicago ... so, not exactly true ... BUT I would agree it's nowhere near it's heyday when department stores were almost exclusively located in a city's downtown and in many cities they now exist only in the suburban malls.

Seems like a pretty big deal to me.

Zapatan Dec 8, 2014 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6835701)
Could you name some of these towers? I can only think of one that was slightly shortened by a developer, 3 WTC.

Every other building I can think of got taller. 432 Park, 225 W. 57, Two Hudson Yards, One Vanderbilt, Steinway Tower, etc.

Chicago Spire, Miami's new tallest, Seattle's new tallest, ACC in Philadelphia, Transbay Tower in SF, Wilshire in LA just to name a few.

Because NY is NY maybe it will be different but if the US is all about economics then I find it hard to believe there will really be a 450+ meter tower to the roof. Hopefully I'm wrong.


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