Looks like this development is 41 floors. It would seem that this is the design selected by the city...can anyone confirm this?

This Skyscraper forum cracks me up...everyone will banter all day long about the Chargers, taxes, and politics, but nobody has an insights, pictures, or discussions about development...god bless.

You're right. Because taxes and politics don't affect development in San Diego, and the Charger's/Qualcomm proposal isn't a significant development at all... Yeah, okay, spoonman.

:haha: Lololololololololz :haha:

Please, bring on the shinny renderings, I'm all for that too.

I'm talking about priorities, not a correlation. Do you read my posts, or are you just slamming your head on the keyboard when you respond?

Calling San Diego a world class city is a stretch. Diverse, yes. And San Diego could support an NFL team, after it fixes higher priority problems that are crippling it from becoming a world class city. I'd love it if San Diego had a bottomless sack of money and political capital, but it doesn't. Reality is a bee.

I'm curious as to how a Ritz Carlton that large would be supported by our market. Most of our luxury resorts are on the coast, north of downtown. Only the U.S. Grant comes to mind, and that place isn't that posh. Downtown has struggled to attract large, high-end hotels because we mostly attract domestic, middle income tourists who want to go to the zoo and beach. If there is a real demand for this type of hotel brand, that would be great news for San Diego with the breakthrough of a new market segment for downtown.

The Pendry (by Montage) which is U/C is extremely high end as well. I think that you are starting to see a shift in the tourist demographic that is as interested in visiting downtown as much as the beach, etc. Also, it seems that many hoteliers are banking on an expanded convention center in some form. Last, while not as big of a factor, more international flights helps with well heeled business travelers and tourists.

I do read your posts but you're not worth more effort than responding to while I drink my coffee.

I have yet to read where you say something like they should only do the Chargers stadium IF they also budget to fix X, Y and Z.

While SD does not have a bottomless sack of money, it's a city that's going to continue to grow in population. My view is that the best way to solve the infrastructure issues is to go up rather than out. Smart urban development = less stress on the system.

Just a few days ago we all rejoiced with the news of the Ritz project on market but do you honestly think this project would happen and next to the Sempra building if Petco Park did not exist? I don't. I remember when that part of town was a stop signs are optional section. Now it's home to thousands of people who live, work and play in the same space.

The plan for a downtown stadium could have done similar. It could have led to a faster roll out of that side of town and made it so there were multiple 15&Island type projects. Don't get me wrong, there will be more of those but I don't think as many as if there was a stadium. That's a loss for San Diego as a whole. A loss of tax revenue combined with a less desirable growth model that impacts the infrastructure needs of the city as a whole.

If this all comes down to you not wanting to line the pockets of the Spanos family, I can respect that. A new stadium will grow their wealth for sure. But a new stadium in San Diego would add to the bottom line like Petco.

When the Chargers leave it will be an opportunity lost.

I'm really liking the Ritz. It looks very tall, one of the tallest in the city hopefully. It'll help San Diego look very dense from viewers at the ballpark or on television.

I was browsing the San Diego Streets twitter feed when I saw this post from last month showing the Jonathan Segal project in Hillcrest. I like all of his work:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFJZc8-UEAA9SOq.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFJZcuEVEAAc8d0.jpg

I think with the size of our downtown a major luxury brand is overdue. While you are correct that a lot of tourists to SD are the family crowd that goes to the zoo, etc., there has been an increase in the upscale market downtown. This can be seen in the restaurants and some clubs so it makes sense it would follow in hotels. The only Ritz I've stayed in was in SF and it was for a company meeting. It seemed like they relied pretty heavily on the corporate crowd more so than the upscale tourist crowd. The SD location could probably attract small and medium sized corporate events as well. Furthermore, I don't think a company like Ritz Carlton would commit without having done their market research. I heard rumors that Mandarin Oriental was talking with the Navy Broady Complex people awhile back, so I think the big names have been scoping out downtown for awhile now and it was only a matter of time before one made the move. The biggest surprise for me is not that a large luxury hotel will be built, but more so the location. I thought it would happen on the bay. But, the 7th and Market location and that height will have some awesome views of the ballpark and the water. Another thing to keep in mind is that development won't be all the hotel, there will be some condos as well as office space. The hotel itself will be 184 rooms which is above average, but it's not enormous. Definitely sustainable in my opinion.

Are they breaking with the Egyptian theme, or will there be some of that in this project? I actually really like this area with the Egyptian theme mixed in with Art Deco - it's subtle and historical, and not gaudy. I'm glad that little Egyptian courtyard apartment building next to this was spared, it's a historical treasure. So, with the Egyptian and the Cairo (and isn't something there called the Nile?) what will this be called? Cleopatra tower? :D

And you bring up a good point about television - a tower like that with the big Ritz logo on it, the Ritz will get a lot of free advertising during televised games

Good analysis.

:haha: Have you seen the acreage downtown? Please realize that the East Village is a small space, with limited opportunities for development. Go to the library, 8th floor reading room and look out. It's not big at all. And you think putting in a stadium, which would take up huge blocks of land, would result in more projects like 15th & Island?

Lololololololololz.

Downtown is gentrifying just fine. It's push eastward is inevitable. We don't need another stadium (versus a ballpark - two different animals in terms of their relationship to the urban fabric of a city) to keep up the cranes.

Also, an aside. I doubt we will see another project like 15th & Island anytime soon. That project was specifically developed on one of San Diego's few "mega-blocks." Most of the East Village is intersected by fault lines and smaller blocks. And with Civic SD under threat from the legislature, approving such a large project could become very difficult once the NIMBY doors open at City Hall.

I don't think there will be an Egyptian theme. The architect does more modern designs, usually very sleek and high quality. All I can really find is a photo of the model here:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...d6&oe=56319CE1

This is from the architect's facebook page

Regarding the Hillcrest project, there was an entitled development called "The Memphis" that was going to complement "The Cairo" and "The Egyptian," but the economy stalled before it could be built.

This new project by Segal is called "Mr. Robinson" and it doesn't have any significant Egyptian themes as far as I can tell. I'm a huge fan of his work, and his position/opinions on development in San Diego - so this is an exciting project for me personally. :D

More news about the proposed Carlsbad mall.

The new Granville community plan has been approved. The area was rezoned from industrial to mixed use and will allow up to 8,000 units in buildings up to 5 floors next to transit. I don't see why taller buildings weren't possible at that site, but more housing is great news. I just wish people builders could build based on FAR and not height limits. This produces fat stucco boxes, but oh well.

[URL]http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/10/grantville-zoning-transit-smart-growth-development/[URL]

I have and I know what is there. You seem to be saying that parking lots are the only development sites. Am I correct?

When I walk the East Village I see block after block of underdeveloped land. I see single story warehouses that are cross fit gyms and I see boarded up former retail corners.

My take is if San Diego is going to accommodate all of the expected population that is coming, each and every one of these parcels is going to need to be redeveloped.

Yes. You seem to be omitting where the stadium was going to go if it went downtown. It was going to replace the bus garage.

Now that a massive project that could replace the entire garage at once is off the table, the likelihood that this garage is moved in the next 20 years is slim to none. I am not sure what the view is out your window or how much you paid for your place but having that at your doorstep is not a selling point.

The gentrification, for me, is a separate issue from the density. Does that make sense?

I think anything that is less than 6 stories is the wrong type of density and I think that high rise development around the (open air) stadium would have been much, much more likely to happen.

Now, my inference is you're going to see more mid-rise development as you push farther out. Still progress for sure but not enough density to slow the sprawl like I would like to see.

I would hope that we can agree that building density along the existing mass transit infrastructure is imperative to the growth trajectory of the region.

Worst case is smaller projects can be combined but I hear you on the NIMBY nation. At least we know we agree on that.

But even if smaller blocks can't be combined, you can do pretty big projects on smaller parcels. Just look at The Mark. If you remove those crappy townhomes and the community pool at ground level, the tower sits on less than half a city block. Next door, just the Strata Apartments building sits on an even smaller parcel it appears.

They don't need 'mega blocks' to develop towers...

Well if you say so SDCAL - I made no mention of an economic argument and in your reply, you ask a single question, and then spend the rest of your post on economic arguments...

As far as that question, such as it is, not sure what you want here. Are you asking for a spike in facial tissues sales? Increase in calls to suicide prevention lines? Greater reports of dogs being kicked? How do you quantify a loss of community?

Major league sports, particularly the NFL, play a role in community building that museums, symphonies and other tax-payer subsidized institutions simply don't. If you don't want to acknowledge that, well then we just disagree.

Cities that have gone through it seem to feel an acute loss as evidenced by their vigorous, and expensive, efforts to get a team back. If you are convinced that San Diego will somehow be the sole exception, have at it.

Even Seattle, which seemed to have a "lett'em go" attitude when the Sonics left for Oklahoma City, clearly regrets it given the efforts there to build a new arena. Of course, some people are just fine with them losing their team, so I don't pretend these extensive efforts to get a team back reflects everyone's view.

As far as Qualcomm as a catalyst, it was never intended to be. That stadium was built on a 1960s model of "drive to game, hang in parking lot pre-game, watch game, drive home." Don't even need a thesis to tell you that this is a model unlikely to spur adjacent development, nor did I claim it did.

What I do claim is that a new stadium can spur development in Mission Valley and suggest you look at what the Patriots did with Foxboro where they also replaced a 60s model stadium with a 21st Century one surrounded by development... on the same site.

As far as taxes? What I said was we seem to have a plan that won't require a tax increase (look it up!), not that no public money would be used. But as usual, you see what you want, what is actually written notwithstanding...

BTW - I interned for Segal when I began my career in development. For those of you who like his work, let me know if you'd like an introduction... :cheers:

It's called "Mr. Robinson" and it's a Jonathan Segal project. So, no it won't be Egyptian.

Here's a link to a pretentious video about it... :rolleyes:https://vimeo.com/122464704

Segal's work is outstanding. His work should be a model and wakeup call to other developers creating stucco boxes. I'm not in the developer or architect, but maybe Travis could share if it really costs that much more to develop something like Mr. Robinson vs a stucco box? I'm genuinely curious.

We should just let Segal have the El Cajon Blvd Corridor from Park to I-15 where he could build about 12 more "Mr. Robinsons"! Starting with the empty lot next to Sprouts on Park and move East. Maybe the forumers should start making a list of infill parcels on a website like that streets of San Diego. I would assume developers already have someone scoping out land.

Has anyone seen any new renderings of the Little Italy Mercato development on India and Date? Looks like a 5 and 7 story building with a fulltime urban food market. Is this trying to be a Pikes Place kind of thing, it says it will also have a Piazza... This seems like a game changer for Little Italy but it has gotten little attention in this thread, they are excavating for underground garage now.

I saw renderings for the Little Italy project a while back. One block of Date will be closed off and will be a space for a street market. Below the street will be underground parking.

I was down in Little Italy the other day and I have to say it had an excellent amount of activity and development. The Date project will definitely help to finish off the area along with a couple of other projects. It is great that Little Italy has become a significant destination downtown to balance things a bit with Gaslamp and East Village.

This is such exciting news! I'll take the 8000+ units over slightly taller mid-rises any day.

I don't think San Diego would ever approve a community plan with the potential for real high-rise development (15+ stories) outside of where they are allowed now. The best we can hope for is 7-8 stories, max. And that's being liberal. We are going to develop into a 3-6 story middies community.

I say bulldoze Grantville and give it to Segal to rebuild. It seems like the new community plan allows for exactly his kinds of projects.

Planners to mull Mira Mesa megaproject

Stone Creek project would house 15,000 people on 300 acres

By Roger Showley3:31 p.m.June 12, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...ojects-design/

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/phot...053cbc530c46a8

This article covers the Civic San Diego happenings of four downtown buildings.

--------------------------------------

Downtown rental towers vary in approach
By Roger Showley6 a.m.June 13, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...?#article-copy

^^ Just read that article excited about the height at 7th and Broadway that is much needed right there and will add bulk to the an area that hasn't seen a tall in years. 7th and Market will probably block that one from being seen from Petco... And what is up with 11th and Broadway? That project is lagging hard.... Also have the two towers approved and ready just North of Symphony towers by El Cortez started construction yet?

Isn't the Broadway project between 7th and 8th? The beer co is on 6th and Broadway I don't think the article was correct.
Pinnacle is doing 11th and Broadway and ive heard they won't start on that until they finish phase 2 on 15 and island.
The hotel Churchill project is under construction now. I guess they "found" 6 million more dollars to renovate it.

The project is between 7th & 8th.

This article suggests the construction to connect Park Boulevard and Harbor Drive could be completed in 2018.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNTOWN RAIL CROSSING SET FOR OK

Cost estimate nearly doubles to $13.8 million; 2018 completion likely
By Roger Showley5:07 a.m.June 10, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...ng-set-for-ok/

Do you know if Phase 1 of 15th & Island is complete? I've seen lights on in some of the units on lower floors, and I they've got signs up for leasing, so I think it's got to at least be pretty close to being completed. http://www.pinnacleonthepark.com/

Are you kidding me Pinnacle is going to wait on 11th and Broadway until they finish tower 2 at Island... Come on, demand is huge they can do two projects at once they are a major builder not some small operation. Also walked by that Karkas (Sp?) supply store at 9/10th and G, that things needs to go ASAP.

On another point I do agree with Dales that it isn't just empty lots we should be looking at for development there are tons of crappy underused structures in downtown even some really dinky residential projects built 12 years ago on 7th and 8th could be torn down for larger developments in years to come. Family gym in East Village, shitty car services places in Columbia district just outside Little Itay etc. Persian restaurant on 5th or 6th with cab company across the street in an old gas station/service structure etc.... When you take the time to really walk the streets and see what is around there is a lot of potential dev. sites.

The crane came down a couple weeks ago. A few floors still are missing the windows where the construction elevator was attached. I heard Stella and halcyon aren't paying rent because the developer told them they'd be done by now. There's a few units that have lights left on at night.
I can see why they wouldn't do 2 projects at once. They probably use the same subcontractors for everything.

Not to mention the issue of cash flow. It's gotta help to have proceeds from one investment coming in before they take the risk of building the next project.

below is information from the San Diego Eater regarding the proposed grocer in the 7th and Market Development:

From: http://sandiego.eater.com


The tipline is buzzing about a potential new Whole Foods Market that might land in the East Village as part of a mixed-use project that has been proposed for the downtown block at Seventh and Market Street bordered by Eighth and Island Avenues.

Jason Wood, a principal at Cisterra Development, told Eater that Whole Foods Market is indeed attached to their proposal for the site, which would also include a Ritz Carlton and two restaurants linked to the hotel, plus new apartments and office space. It's not yet clear if the grocer would be opening a traditional Whole Foods in the space or one of its new, lower-priced 365 by Whole Foods outlets. Whole Foods Market could not confirm the expansion, but said it will be announcing new store sites during a quarterly earnings call scheduled for July.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...616-story.html:slob:

Car Rental Center topped out
http://www.cbs8.com/story/29338015/s...tal-car-center

http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/8085854_G.jpg

http://kusi.images.worldnow.com/images/8084491_G.jpg

Chargers nix Dec. 15 stadium vote
 

Welp....this pretty much clears up the picture as to the future of the Chargers in San Diego.

For those who did not want a penny to be spent on the stadium...you'll get your wish.

You'll also get a bus garage for the next 20 years in the East Village and the maintenance bill for the Q without the revenue from the Chargers. Good luck redeveloping that massive site with just the SDSU football team attached.

:cheers:

I'd say it's obvious the Chargers don't want to stay.

Very obvious.

Why are the Chargers so insistent on a ballot vote when a solution which avoids one is presented to them?

Someone answer me that. Do they really think the threat of legal action dies with a YES vote?

This is the end.

If you were the owner...would you want to stay? I wouldn't.

I would never want to move to LA. He will be the third fiddle to the raiders and Rams regardless of where those teams play. The only way Spanos truly realizes the value of moving to LA is by selling the team. It would seem like there's a fair deal to be had with the csag proposal, but to get around the environmental survey they would have to go the route of Carson or inglewood. That would require a June vote.
So it seems like if the Chargers want a new stadium in SD they simply have to say OK and wait until a June vote. The relocation fee alone might be close to 300 million dollars. Maybe they're gearing up to sell the team after they move it to LA.
It seems odd to me that an environmental review isn't necessary because the average voter is not informed enough to know any better. I think if that environmental law ever had a legitimate purpose it would be to make sure you mitigate the risks for a project like, say, building a huge people holding structure on an old landfill. But it's not ok to replace a stadium on the site of an existing stadium. Oh that's right. This is California.

I believe Faulconer wanted the vote for political coverage but I don't think Chargers insisted either way.
Voice of San Diego sued the city of Carson to get access to documents they believe exists showing the Chargers started working with Carson a year before they said

If the city council simply approved the plan it would go the way of one paseo or barrio Logan and end up on the ballot anyway. That's why faulconer insists on a vote, because it's inevitable.

I may be in the minority but I feel like we shouldn't get to vote on whatever we want just because we get signatures. Let the representatives we elect do their job. California's version of government is so overwrought with inefficiency stemming from the "too many hands in the pot". We have a built in second-guessing mechanism. The classic micro-manager syndrome.

:cheers:

Agreed.

I agree with this. I believe Todd Gloria, city councilman, was advocating making the threshold for these ballot initiatives higher but not sure if it's going anywhere. As it is, any major decision the city makes gets overturned by special interests who can afford to pay liars to collect signatures. Whether it's Barrio Logan, 1 Paseo, even the minimum wage increase, it seems like any time the city makes a major decision it gets derailed. If the city were to proceed with a new stadium without a vote, I can guarantee you a group would soon be out getting signatures to force it on the ballot.

Regardless of how you feel about the Chargers staying or leaving the one thing I'm not looking forward to is the fight over the next decade about Qualcomm stadium's fate.

You can dream all you want about San Diego State getting a piece of it but I'll say right now that once the Chargers do leave the fight for the Q and how it will be used or not is going to be something fierce.

If San Diego State or anyone else with plans for that site thinks they can just easily move in and take it without a extremely long drawn out fight they are in for a rude surprise. If the poles are low for getting the Chargers a new stadium imagine giving away a large valuable piece of city land to the Aztecs. :haha:

I thought all along that if the Chargers leave the Q would turn out to be a giant paperweight with everyone in the city fighting for what to do with it.

Forget about any perceived shame by the city for losing a NFL team. Get ready for another long, sad chapter in San Diego history as we get ready for the battle for the Q...

Excellent point. If everything is going to be voted on why do we bother to elect anyone? Isn't that why I voted someone into office in the first place? To actually make some decisions?