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isaidso May 12, 2018 1:33 AM

I believe Canadian Airlines was about to collapse and a takeover by Air Canada deemed the best way of preserving jobs. Consensus was that Canada wasn't big enough to support 2 carriers.

wave46 May 12, 2018 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8185462)
I believe Canadian Airlines was about to collapse and a takeover by Air Canada deemed the best way of preserving jobs. Consensus was that Canada wasn't big enough to support 2 carriers.

The mid-to-late 1990s were not a good time for Canada economically.

The dollar had taken a beating which hurt international travel. The economy was still pretty weak due to the early 1990s recession and government cuts at the federal and provincial levels. Commodity prices were in the dumps, which hurt the natural resources sector.

Canadian Airlines was loaded down with debt. There was no ownership group in Canada that would take it on, but American Airlines wanted to pending a change in ownership regulations. Luckily for AA, they didn't, given how the US airlines fared in the early 2000s.

The merger between AC and Canadian was the viewed as best option, as you've mentioned.

Cage May 12, 2018 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8185462)
I believe Canadian Airlines was about to collapse and a takeover by Air Canada deemed the best way of preserving jobs. Consensus was that Canada wasn't big enough to support 2 carriers.

This.

I would add that Canadian’s many flirtations with bankruptcy in the 90s gave the government time to rewrite a clause (section 47 of the Transport Canada Act) allowing the govt to suspend the competition act and allow the airlines to discuss a merger or buyout. Behind the scenes, the govt was out right threatening AC to get them to buyout CP. the govt didnt want to lose seats to the reform party beacause they let a Vancouver company die at the hands of a Quebec company. AC initial position was to let CP go banks and then let AC inherit the earth.

Blader May 12, 2018 2:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 8185475)
This.

I would add that Canadian’s many flirtations with bankruptcy in the 90s gave the government time to rewrite a clause (section 47 of the Transport Canada Act) allowing the govt to suspend the competition act and allow the airlines to discuss a merger or buyout. Behind the scenes, the govt was out right threatening AC to get them to buyout CP. the govt didnt want to lose seats to the reform party beacause they let a Vancouver company die at the hands of a Quebec company. AC initial position was to let CP go banks and then let AC inherit the earth.

Agreed, a somewhat cavalier position. It caught them by surprise and bit them in the ass, when wealthy Gerry Schwartz, a Liberal party bagman, of Onex Corporation, made a hostile bid for control and a merger of both airlines.
Air Canada countered with a bid of their own.

It was a battle royale. Onex lost in a Quebec court and gave up. I tried to find a detailed history, for those who don't remember, that I could post, but was unsuccessful.

Cage May 12, 2018 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo (Post 8185433)
I was reading about the Canadian Airlines collapse in 1999 and was surprised to come across this on Wikipedia: "At the time of merger, Canadian Airlines carried over 40% of the domestic share of passengers in Canada. Following the completion of the acquisition, Air Canada controlled over 90% of the domestic share of passengers, and dominated international and US-Canada transborder traffic." The reference link is broken, unfortunately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadi...es#cite_note-4

Made me shocked that the competition bureau would allow that level of concentration, but also wonder how the situation has evolved to today and what % of the market is now controlled by AC and WS. This link suggests AC has a 45% market share, WS has 25% and Porter only has 3%. http://www.travelmarketreport.com/ar...Growth-in-2018

Something to keep in mind when looking at domestic market share. In the CP days, their DC-10s and 767s couldn’t do YYZ-Asia (summer yyz-nrt was an exception), so pax had to connect in YVR. The YYZ-YVR trip portion was recorded as a domestic. Nowadays with 777 & 787, YYZ pax go nonstop to Asia.

AC is also much more integrated with LH group and UA, so pax connect seamlessly at LHR or FRA or CDG. This again pushes up the foreign numbers over the domestic.

For a true apples to apples comparison, one would have to back out the domestic portions of international itineraries.

SpongeG May 12, 2018 4:54 AM

WestJet promises full refunds on flights cancelled by pilot strike

Pilots voted 91% in favour of strike action against Calgary-based airline

The Canadian Press · Posted: May 11, 2018

WestJet Airlines is promising to provide full refunds if flights are cancelled because of a possible pilots strike.

In response to passenger tweets expressing anxiety about their upcoming vacations, the Calgary-based airline says it understands the concerns.

WestJet says the refund would be in the original form of payment.

However, a passenger said that simply offering a refund may not resolve the traveller's problem because tickets purchased just before flights typically cost more.

Air Canada has capitalized on its rival's situation by formally announcing Thursday that it is expanding capacity on key transcontinental routes in response to the strike mandate at its large domestic rival.

WestJet pilots voted 91 per cent in favour of strike action, but committed to not disrupt passenger travel plans over the Victoria Day long weekend as a goodwill gesture.

Pilots will be in a legal position to commence job action on May 19, but now say they won't strike before May 22.

...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...rike-1.4658806

The Chemist May 13, 2018 11:16 PM

When did AC change YVR - PVG to a 789 from a 773? When I booked my flight back to Canada this summer the schedule showed a 773, but then I received a change of booking notification that showed an equipment change to a 789. Not that I'm complaining, but I'm wondering why the downgauge in the middle of the summer schedule.

hollywoodcory May 14, 2018 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist (Post 8186846)
When did AC change YVR - PVG to a 789 from a 773? When I booked my flight back to Canada this summer the schedule showed a 773, but then I received a change of booking notification that showed an equipment change to a 789. Not that I'm complaining, but I'm wondering why the downgauge in the middle of the summer schedule.

Same thing happened to YYC-FRA. Was suppose to be a 77L, but got swapped back to a 789. Both swapping back on July 1.

Alexcaban May 14, 2018 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Chemist (Post 8186846)
When did AC change YVR - PVG to a 789 from a 773? When I booked my flight back to Canada this summer the schedule showed a 773, but then I received a change of booking notification that showed an equipment change to a 789. Not that I'm complaining, but I'm wondering why the downgauge in the middle of the summer schedule.

The 77W has been moved to operate AC864 YUL-LHR.

Bourkky May 14, 2018 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8183301)
According to AC flight schedules, YUL-LIM is going up to 3x weekly as of next December. Also, from another forum, rumor has it YUL will get a new route annoucement to a ''major city'' in the coming months. Don't know how reliable the source is, though.

BOG, TXL, MXP would all qualify as major cities. DKR is also a possibility.

Good news for YUL-LIM. What is the other forum? An announcement in the coming months (probably this summer) is a little bit weird as it would imply the beginning of the route somewhere in the middle of the winter. Shanghai did start in February tho so another east asian city could be possible. (Hong Kong? AC? CX?) I highly doubt a new European route will be announce in the middle of this summer, to early for an announcement for next summer and I don't think any carrier will want to start YUL-Europe in the middle of winter. South America? It would have to start in December so they need to hurry up, hehe!!

begratto May 14, 2018 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourkky (Post 8187260)
Good news for YUL-LIM. What is the other forum? An announcement in the coming months (probably this summer) is a little bit weird as it would imply the beginning of the route somewhere in the middle of the winter. Shanghai did start in February tho so another east asian city could be possible. (Hong Kong? AC? CX?) I highly doubt a new European route will be announce in the middle of this summer, to early for an announcement for next summer and I don't think any carrier will want to start YUL-Europe in the middle of winter. South America? It would have to start in December so they need to hurry up, hehe!!

The YUL airport / airplanes subforum of Mtlurb.com.

SteelTown May 17, 2018 3:06 AM

Swoop unveiled their new plane, named after Hamilton. Flights starts June 20th.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdKjCqmVwAIUYCv.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DdKgA7wU0AAR5Ky.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DbpIP17VQAA3rGh.jpg
FlySwoop
https://twitter.com/FlySwoop

GlassCity May 17, 2018 3:50 AM

I've been flying a lot between Vancouver and Winnipeg lately, and I just looked up the price for that on Swoop, and it's $165, including the 1 carry-on and 1 check-in bag I typically bring. I thought the big sacrifice with an ULCC is that you pay a bunch extra for these things, but it still ends up being half of what I would pay with WestJet/Air Canada. Can't imagine the on-board experience being so significantly worse.

Also, curious that they charge more for carry-on than check-in. Very excited that this has come up though, and I look forward to trying it soon. I've always meant to try Flair, but it's never synced with my schedule. Everyday flights on Swoop are a big plus.

le calmar May 17, 2018 12:17 PM

They have very interesting pricing, Hamilton-Vancouver is 329$ for the round-trip. I hope they add service to new cities soon.

lubicon May 17, 2018 6:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity (Post 8190772)
I've been flying a lot between Vancouver and Winnipeg lately, and I just looked up the price for that on Swoop, and it's $165, including the 1 carry-on and 1 check-in bag I typically bring. I thought the big sacrifice with an ULCC is that you pay a bunch extra for these things, but it still ends up being half of what I would pay with WestJet/Air Canada. Can't imagine the on-board experience being so significantly worse.
Also, curious that they charge more for carry-on than check-in. Very excited that this has come up though, and I look forward to trying it soon. I've always meant to try Flair, but it's never synced with my schedule. Everyday flights on Swoop are a big plus.

Not sure how the swoop aircraft are set up for in flight entertainment and I believe seat pitch is less than mainline (??) so there are two differences right there.

Charging for carry on will discourage people from doing so which will speed up the boarding and deplaning process (ie improve turn around times) which is beneficial to the airline.

240glt May 17, 2018 7:16 PM

I wholeheartedly applaud charging for carry-on. All allowing free carry-ons does in incentivize people to haul all their crap with them on the plane. When I fly I literally carry my wallet, passport, cell phone and iPad on the plane with me. If more people did this I imagine the time savings to board and de-board would be substantial

Zmonkey May 17, 2018 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8190920)
They have very interesting pricing, Hamilton-Vancouver is 329$ for the round-trip. I hope they add service to new cities soon.

I hope someone takes a stab at Montreal soon with these ULCC. Doesn't make sense to leave it out there, or maybe Ottawa or Quebec City.

Same time I would like to see YYC picked up by Swoop.

zahav May 18, 2018 6:20 AM

They don't advertise "Vancouver" , it's Abbotsford pure and simple, calling it "vancouver to toronto" instead of "abbotsford to hamilton" is crazy to me. But that is who they are targetting for sure

thenoflyzone May 18, 2018 12:54 PM

Not the first time they mention it, but Southwest Airlines (WN) is again interested in launching services to Canada. Services will be based out of BWI, and the airline is looking to partner up with another carrier to offer TATL service.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...anada-tatl-hub

BWI is WN's second largest hub by daily departures.

YYCguys May 18, 2018 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8192102)
They don't advertise "Vancouver" , it's Abbotsford pure and simple, calling it "vancouver to toronto" instead of "abbotsford to hamilton" is crazy to me. But that is who they are targetting for sure

Who’s “they”? A quick look at both the Flair and Swoop websites show the cities being labelled clearly as Abbotsford and Hamilton.

Having said that, there was a British carrier (the name escapes me), from years past, that briefly flew to Hamilton and did indeed market it as “Toronto John Munro International”. It was funny to hear that!


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