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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

SDfan Jun 10, 2015 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7058008)
I think with the size of our downtown a major luxury brand is overdue. While you are correct that a lot of tourists to SD are the family crowd that goes to the zoo, etc., there has been an increase in the upscale market downtown. This can be seen in the restaurants and some clubs so it makes sense it would follow in hotels. The only Ritz I've stayed in was in SF and it was for a company meeting. It seemed like they relied pretty heavily on the corporate crowd more so than the upscale tourist crowd. The SD location could probably attract small and medium sized corporate events as well. Furthermore, I don't think a company like Ritz Carlton would commit without having done their market research. I heard rumors that Mandarin Oriental was talking with the Navy Broady Complex people awhile back, so I think the big names have been scoping out downtown for awhile now and it was only a matter of time before one made the move. The biggest surprise for me is not that a large luxury hotel will be built, but more so the location. I thought it would happen on the bay. But, the 7th and Market location and that height will have some awesome views of the ballpark and the water. Another thing to keep in mind is that development won't be all the hotel, there will be some condos as well as office space. The hotel itself will be 184 rooms which is above average, but it's not enormous. Definitely sustainable in my opinion.

Good analysis.

SDfan Jun 10, 2015 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dales5050 (Post 7057304)
The plan for a downtown stadium could have done similar. It could have led to a faster roll out of that side of town and made it so there were multiple 15&Island type projects. Don't get me wrong, there will be more of those but I don't think as many as if there was a stadium. That's a loss for San Diego as a whole. A loss of tax revenue combined with a less desirable growth model that impacts the infrastructure needs of the city as a whole.

:haha: Have you seen the acreage downtown? Please realize that the East Village is a small space, with limited opportunities for development. Go to the library, 8th floor reading room and look out. It's not big at all. And you think putting in a stadium, which would take up huge blocks of land, would result in more projects like 15th & Island?

Lololololololololz.

Downtown is gentrifying just fine. It's push eastward is inevitable. We don't need another stadium (versus a ballpark - two different animals in terms of their relationship to the urban fabric of a city) to keep up the cranes.

Also, an aside. I doubt we will see another project like 15th & Island anytime soon. That project was specifically developed on one of San Diego's few "mega-blocks." Most of the East Village is intersected by fault lines and smaller blocks. And with Civic SD under threat from the legislature, approving such a large project could become very difficult once the NIMBY doors open at City Hall.

Streamliner Jun 10, 2015 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7058028)
Are they breaking with the Egyptian theme, or will there be some of that in this project? I actually really like this area with the Egyptian theme mixed in with Art Deco - it's subtle and historical, and not gaudy. I'm glad that little Egyptian courtyard apartment building next to this was spared, it's a historical treasure. So, with the Egyptian and the Cairo (and isn't something there called the Nile?) what will this be called? Cleopatra tower? :D

I don't think there will be an Egyptian theme. The architect does more modern designs, usually very sleek and high quality. All I can really find is a photo of the model here:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...d6&oe=56319CE1

This is from the architect's facebook page

SDfan Jun 10, 2015 11:53 PM

Regarding the Hillcrest project, there was an entitled development called "The Memphis" that was going to complement "The Cairo" and "The Egyptian," but the economy stalled before it could be built.

This new project by Segal is called "Mr. Robinson" and it doesn't have any significant Egyptian themes as far as I can tell. I'm a huge fan of his work, and his position/opinions on development in San Diego - so this is an exciting project for me personally. :D

SDfan Jun 10, 2015 11:59 PM

More news about the proposed Carlsbad mall.

Quote:

Carlsbad Proposal Envisions Large Shopping and Entertainment Complex
http://www.sandiegometro.com/2015/06...une-10-2014-2/

Caruso Affiliated has filed a development plan with the city of Carlsbad for a 585,000-square-foot outdoor shopping and entertainment complex adjacent to the ecologically sensitive Agua Hedionda Lagoon.

The company said the development would be anchored by Seattle-based Nordstrom.

“The pedestrian-friendly promenade … reflects the community’s strong desire to welcome high-quality retail to Carlsbad and will serve as a world-class lifestyle destination for the Carlsbad community,” the company said in a release.

The Agua Hedionda 85/15 Plan filed last month with the city will conserve and create new access to 85 percent (176 acres) of the land along the south shore of the Agua Hedionda Lagoon and 15 percent of the land (26 acres) will be reserved for visitor retail, according to the company.

The Nordstrom store is planned as a two-level, full-line store totaling approximately 123,000 square feet...

spoonman Jun 11, 2015 5:21 AM

The new Granville community plan has been approved. The area was rezoned from industrial to mixed use and will allow up to 8,000 units in buildings up to 5 floors next to transit. I don't see why taller buildings weren't possible at that site, but more housing is great news. I just wish people builders could build based on FAR and not height limits. This produces fat stucco boxes, but oh well.

[URL]http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/10/grantville-zoning-transit-smart-growth-development/[URL]

dales5050 Jun 11, 2015 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7058265)
:haha: Have you seen the acreage downtown? Please realize that the East Village is a small space, with limited opportunities for development. Go to the library, 8th floor reading room and look out. It's not big at all.

I have and I know what is there. You seem to be saying that parking lots are the only development sites. Am I correct?

When I walk the East Village I see block after block of underdeveloped land. I see single story warehouses that are cross fit gyms and I see boarded up former retail corners.

My take is if San Diego is going to accommodate all of the expected population that is coming, each and every one of these parcels is going to need to be redeveloped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7058265)
And you think putting in a stadium, which would take up huge blocks of land, would result in more projects like 15th & Island?

Yes. You seem to be omitting where the stadium was going to go if it went downtown. It was going to replace the bus garage.

Now that a massive project that could replace the entire garage at once is off the table, the likelihood that this garage is moved in the next 20 years is slim to none. I am not sure what the view is out your window or how much you paid for your place but having that at your doorstep is not a selling point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7058265)
Downtown is gentrifying just fine. It's push eastward is inevitable. We don't need another stadium (versus a ballpark - two different animals in terms of their relationship to the urban fabric of a city) to keep up the cranes.

The gentrification, for me, is a separate issue from the density. Does that make sense?

I think anything that is less than 6 stories is the wrong type of density and I think that high rise development around the (open air) stadium would have been much, much more likely to happen.

Now, my inference is you're going to see more mid-rise development as you push farther out. Still progress for sure but not enough density to slow the sprawl like I would like to see.

I would hope that we can agree that building density along the existing mass transit infrastructure is imperative to the growth trajectory of the region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDfan (Post 7058265)
Also, an aside. I doubt we will see another project like 15th & Island anytime soon. That project was specifically developed on one of San Diego's few "mega-blocks." Most of the East Village is intersected by fault lines and smaller blocks. And with Civic SD under threat from the legislature, approving such a large project could become very difficult once the NIMBY doors open at City Hall.

Worst case is smaller projects can be combined but I hear you on the NIMBY nation. At least we know we agree on that.

But even if smaller blocks can't be combined, you can do pretty big projects on smaller parcels. Just look at The Mark. If you remove those crappy townhomes and the community pool at ground level, the tower sits on less than half a city block. Next door, just the Strata Apartments building sits on an even smaller parcel it appears.

They don't need 'mega blocks' to develop towers...

travis bickle Jun 11, 2015 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7052630)
U

My response to you didn't say you made an economic argument, I asked what non-economic consequences you predict if the Chargers leave since economically it's pretty widely agreed the consequences would be minor. You didn't really answer my question, but instead tell me I should "ask Baltimore, Houston and Cleveland". I'm not the one trying to make the argument we would have a "palpable and painful" void, you are. So why don't you tell us what this palpable pain consists of? You said in a previous post you have seen cities suffer after losing a major sports team, I was simply asking you for examples not trying to start an argument.

A point about being a catalyst - was Qualcomm a catalyst for development in mission valley? It doesn't really seem like it. If nothing major attributed to Qualcomm developed in all these years at and near that site, what reasoning is there to think there would be with a new stadium there?

And finally, to your point of no tax money - just because there won't be a tax doesn't mean tax money isn't being used on this plan. Both the city and county would, under this plan, contribute hundreds of millions of dollars in public assets. With all the infrastructure and other needs in our city, is a sports stadium the best use of these public funds? I'd be for it if there were a reasonable expectation of a heavy return for the city, but I just don't see it. The plan doesn't even call for a stadium that meets the capacity requirements for a Super Bowl!!

Well if you say so SDCAL - I made no mention of an economic argument and in your reply, you ask a single question, and then spend the rest of your post on economic arguments...

As far as that question, such as it is, not sure what you want here. Are you asking for a spike in facial tissues sales? Increase in calls to suicide prevention lines? Greater reports of dogs being kicked? How do you quantify a loss of community?

Major league sports, particularly the NFL, play a role in community building that museums, symphonies and other tax-payer subsidized institutions simply don't. If you don't want to acknowledge that, well then we just disagree.

Cities that have gone through it seem to feel an acute loss as evidenced by their vigorous, and expensive, efforts to get a team back. If you are convinced that San Diego will somehow be the sole exception, have at it.

Even Seattle, which seemed to have a "lett'em go" attitude when the Sonics left for Oklahoma City, clearly regrets it given the efforts there to build a new arena. Of course, some people are just fine with them losing their team, so I don't pretend these extensive efforts to get a team back reflects everyone's view.

As far as Qualcomm as a catalyst, it was never intended to be. That stadium was built on a 1960s model of "drive to game, hang in parking lot pre-game, watch game, drive home." Don't even need a thesis to tell you that this is a model unlikely to spur adjacent development, nor did I claim it did.

What I do claim is that a new stadium can spur development in Mission Valley and suggest you look at what the Patriots did with Foxboro where they also replaced a 60s model stadium with a 21st Century one surrounded by development... on the same site.

As far as taxes? What I said was we seem to have a plan that won't require a tax increase (look it up!), not that no public money would be used. But as usual, you see what you want, what is actually written notwithstanding...

BTW - I interned for Segal when I began my career in development. For those of you who like his work, let me know if you'd like an introduction... :cheers:

Northparkwizard Jun 11, 2015 5:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 7058028)
Are they breaking with the Egyptian theme, or will there be some of that in this project? I actually really like this area with the Egyptian theme mixed in with Art Deco - it's subtle and historical, and not gaudy. I'm glad that little Egyptian courtyard apartment building next to this was spared, it's a historical treasure. So, with the Egyptian and the Cairo (and isn't something there called the Nile?) what will this be called? Cleopatra tower? :D

It's called "Mr. Robinson" and it's a Jonathan Segal project. So, no it won't be Egyptian.

Here's a link to a pretentious video about it... :rolleyes:https://vimeo.com/122464704

spoonman Jun 11, 2015 6:08 PM

Segal's work is outstanding. His work should be a model and wakeup call to other developers creating stucco boxes. I'm not in the developer or architect, but maybe Travis could share if it really costs that much more to develop something like Mr. Robinson vs a stucco box? I'm genuinely curious.

mello Jun 11, 2015 7:00 PM

We should just let Segal have the El Cajon Blvd Corridor from Park to I-15 where he could build about 12 more "Mr. Robinsons"! Starting with the empty lot next to Sprouts on Park and move East. Maybe the forumers should start making a list of infill parcels on a website like that streets of San Diego. I would assume developers already have someone scoping out land.

Has anyone seen any new renderings of the Little Italy Mercato development on India and Date? Looks like a 5 and 7 story building with a fulltime urban food market. Is this trying to be a Pikes Place kind of thing, it says it will also have a Piazza... This seems like a game changer for Little Italy but it has gotten little attention in this thread, they are excavating for underground garage now.

spoonman Jun 11, 2015 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7059431)
We should just let Segal have the El Cajon Blvd Corridor from Park to I-15 where he could build about 12 more "Mr. Robinsons"! Starting with the empty lot next to Sprouts on Park and move East. Maybe the forumers should start making a list of infill parcels on a website like that streets of San Diego. I would assume developers already have someone scoping out land.

Has anyone seen any new renderings of the Little Italy Mercato development on India and Date? Looks like a 5 and 7 story building with a fulltime urban food market. Is this trying to be a Pikes Place kind of thing, it says it will also have a Piazza... This seems like a game changer for Little Italy but it has gotten little attention in this thread, they are excavating for underground garage now.

I saw renderings for the Little Italy project a while back. One block of Date will be closed off and will be a space for a street market. Below the street will be underground parking.

I was down in Little Italy the other day and I have to say it had an excellent amount of activity and development. The Date project will definitely help to finish off the area along with a couple of other projects. It is great that Little Italy has become a significant destination downtown to balance things a bit with Gaslamp and East Village.

SDfan Jun 11, 2015 7:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 7058804)
The new Granville community plan has been approved. The area was rezoned from industrial to mixed use and will allow up to 8,000 units in buildings up to 5 floors next to transit. I don't see why taller buildings weren't possible at that site, but more housing is great news. I just wish people builders could build based on FAR and not height limits. This produces fat stucco boxes, but oh well.

[URL]http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/10/grantville-zoning-transit-smart-growth-development/[URL]

This is such exciting news! I'll take the 8000+ units over slightly taller mid-rises any day.

I don't think San Diego would ever approve a community plan with the potential for real high-rise development (15+ stories) outside of where they are allowed now. The best we can hope for is 7-8 stories, max. And that's being liberal. We are going to develop into a 3-6 story middies community.

Streamliner Jun 11, 2015 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7059431)
We should just let Segal have the El Cajon Blvd Corridor from Park to I-15 where he could build about 12 more "Mr. Robinsons"! Starting with the empty lot next to Sprouts on Park and move East. Maybe the forumers should start making a list of infill parcels on a website like that streets of San Diego. I would assume developers already have someone scoping out land.

I say bulldoze Grantville and give it to Segal to rebuild. It seems like the new community plan allows for exactly his kinds of projects.

embora Jun 13, 2015 4:32 PM

Planners to mull Mira Mesa megaproject

Stone Creek project would house 15,000 people on 300 acres

By Roger Showley3:31 p.m.June 12, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...ojects-design/

http://media.utsandiego.com/img/phot...053cbc530c46a8

embora Jun 13, 2015 4:46 PM

This article covers the Civic San Diego happenings of four downtown buildings.

--------------------------------------

Downtown rental towers vary in approach
By Roger Showley6 a.m.June 13, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...?#article-copy

mello Jun 14, 2015 2:03 AM

^^ Just read that article excited about the height at 7th and Broadway that is much needed right there and will add bulk to the an area that hasn't seen a tall in years. 7th and Market will probably block that one from being seen from Petco... And what is up with 11th and Broadway? That project is lagging hard.... Also have the two towers approved and ready just North of Symphony towers by El Cortez started construction yet?

dtell04 Jun 14, 2015 7:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 7062076)
^^ Just read that article excited about the height at 7th and Broadway that is much needed right there and will add bulk to the an area that hasn't seen a tall in years. 7th and Market will probably block that one from being seen from Petco... And what is up with 11th and Broadway? That project is lagging hard.... Also have the two towers approved and ready just North of Symphony towers by El Cortez started construction yet?

Isn't the Broadway project between 7th and 8th? The beer co is on 6th and Broadway I don't think the article was correct.
Pinnacle is doing 11th and Broadway and ive heard they won't start on that until they finish phase 2 on 15 and island.
The hotel Churchill project is under construction now. I guess they "found" 6 million more dollars to renovate it.

embora Jun 14, 2015 6:10 PM

The project is between 7th & 8th.

embora Jun 14, 2015 6:13 PM

This article suggests the construction to connect Park Boulevard and Harbor Drive could be completed in 2018.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNTOWN RAIL CROSSING SET FOR OK

Cost estimate nearly doubles to $13.8 million; 2018 completion likely
By Roger Showley5:07 a.m.June 10, 2015

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/...ng-set-for-ok/


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