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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Djeffery Jun 12, 2022 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9647861)
You sure it's not Tucson, AZ? :D

Flair still have 1x weekly spot on Monday morning to run a run-trip from TUS before returning to YEG by 6pm. So if YXU is going to fill the slot, it would run every Monday starting Dec 5, which fits the timeline in the article. So this is my guess:
TUS-YXU every Monday departing at around 7am
YXU-TUS every Monday departing at around 2pm

How many hours time difference from TUS to Eastern in the winter, and how long is the flight? Can they get to London and turn around leaving Tuscon at 7am their time, and leave London at 2pm our time?

thewave46 Jun 13, 2022 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 9647757)
Toronto Downsview Airport (CYZD) hosted a series of interesting departures on Saturday, June 11 as its manufacturing lines are wound down.

A shame indeed.

The Q400’s end seems nigh, and even though De Havilland still nominally is in business, the Canadian aerospace sector gets a little smaller.

The lands that used to produce technology-laden aircraft will be producing entertainment products and condos soon. Fitting as a metaphor for Canada’s economy, I suppose.

The CSeries bought out by Airbus, the CRJ out of production in 2020, and now the Q400 end of the line.

That only leave the Embraer E-Jets and ATR42/72 as regional jet and turboprop choices, respectively.

Dominion301 Jun 13, 2022 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9647932)
I posted my guess on the London forum for Palm Springs or Phoenix area. I didn't investigate customs options though. Vegas would have made sense except for the single flight a week, which no one goes to Vegas for a week. Also I believe the news story said it was to a location not previously served from London, which did have Vegas flights years ago. Seems odd they would set up shop here for one flight a week, so I'd be interested in seeing if they have any other flights being announced for winter start up.

It’ll almost certainly be TUS just like YQG.

thewave46 Jun 13, 2022 12:51 AM

Flair’s continued existence is a minor miracle.

It survives COVID somehow and now is surviving airport chaos, $120/bbl oil, and now with labour shortages.

It does this while announcing weird new routes, having Westjet try and stomp it via Swoop whilst positioning itself at the no-margin end of things.

I mostly come to wonder if we’re coming to the end of the golden age of cheap flying. It seems to build to a mania in a sense, where foolish money throws it all into a big pit trying to make pennies from dollars. When does it all come apart?

Like Norwegian at the end, trying to make long-haul work on short-haul fares. Great times while someone else shovels in the cash, I suppose.

nname Jun 13, 2022 5:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9647933)
How many hours time difference from TUS to Eastern in the winter, and how long is the flight? Can they get to London and turn around leaving Tuscon at 7am their time, and leave London at 2pm our time?

I just use the YQG schedule, and add about 15-30min of flying time.


Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9647977)
Flair’s continued existence is a minor miracle.

It survives COVID somehow and now is surviving airport chaos, $120/bbl oil, and now with labour shortages.

It does this while announcing weird new routes, having Westjet try and stomp it via Swoop whilst positioning itself at the no-margin end of things.

Pretty sure these routes are heavily subsidized, maybe even from both sides. Flair probably can still be making money even if the planes is completely empty...

I remember long time ago I read the subsidy from Chinese city/airport.. If AAA offers 70% subsidy on any direct non-stop long-hual flights, and BBB offers 30% on any direct route regardless of stops, then an airline may run something like BBB-AAA-YXE and still not lose money even if they fly empty plane everyday. And if YXE also offers subsidy..... Maybe Flair got a deal similar to that.

casper Jun 13, 2022 6:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9648085)
I just use the YQG schedule, and add about 15-30min of flying time.




Pretty sure these routes are heavily subsidized, maybe even from both sides. Flair probably can still be making money even if the planes is completely empty...

I remember long time ago I read the subsidy from Chinese city/airport.. If AAA offers 70% subsidy on any direct non-stop long-hual flights, and BBB offers 30% on any direct route regardless of stops, then an airline may run something like BBB-AAA-YXE and still not lose money even if they fly empty plane everyday. And if YXE also offers subsidy..... Maybe Flair got a deal similar to that.

I would be surprised if a Canadian airport offered anything more than waving some of the landing fees and terminal charges.

thenoflyzone Jun 13, 2022 2:15 PM

4 QR 777s are currently enroute from Baku to Montreal. 2 of them cargo 77Fs for YMX, and 2 passenger 77Ws for YUL. All F1 related, obviously.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr8584

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr8570

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr7392

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr7430

thenoflyzone Jun 13, 2022 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9647977)
Flair’s continued existence is a minor miracle.

It survives COVID somehow and now is surviving airport chaos, $120/bbl oil, and now with labour shortages.

Flair is on borrowed time. Wait.

Once all the subsidies on their ridiculous route pairings dry up, they’ll show their true colours.

Bankruptcy red.

Coldrsx Jun 13, 2022 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9648188)
4 QR 777s are currently enroute from Baku to Montreal. 2 of them cargo 77Fs for YMX, and 2 passenger 77Ws for YUL. All F1 related, obviously.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr8584

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr8570

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr7392

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qr7430

Awesome:tup::cheers::cool:

peytol Jun 13, 2022 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9648203)
Flair is on borrowed time. Wait.

Once all the subsidies on their ridiculous route pairings dry up, they’ll show their true colours.

Bankruptcy red.

I have to agree, I just cant see how Tucson - Prince George can possibly make sense any time, let alone with oil at 120 a barrel.

whatnext Jun 13, 2022 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9648203)
Flair is on borrowed time. Wait.

Once all the subsidies on their ridiculous route pairings dry up, they’ll show their true colours.

Bankruptcy red.

Yes, I'm not sure why people can't see that. The sad part is that in the meantime they inflict financial damage on carriers that provide stable service and better-paying, secure employment.

JakeLRS Jun 13, 2022 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9647861)
You sure it's not Tucson, AZ? :D

Flair still have 1x weekly spot on Monday morning to run a run-trip from TUS before returning to YEG by 6pm. So if YXU is going to fill the slot, it would run every Monday starting Dec 5, which fits the timeline in the article. So this is my guess:
TUS-YXU every Monday departing at around 7am
YXU-TUS every Monday departing at around 2pm

On the money, my friend.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...28bc95711e.jpgYXU_Flair by freerealms454, on Flickr

whatnext Jun 13, 2022 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9648781)

Like I said before, Jetsgo Part Deux.

It's amazing what you can do when making a profit isn't a concern.

LO 044 Jun 13, 2022 11:07 PM

Wow people take a chill pill. We have a supposed free market so whatever happens happens. Cars, oil, forestry, electric cars, the aerospace industry, dairy and anything in Quebec is subsidized and/or protected from a true free market. If Flair was based at YUL this wouldn't even be a topic. By your logic, Swoop should be bankrupt as well because they "bought/leased" those planes from WestJet right? When Flair leaves, Lynx will move in. If Lynx leaves, Jetlines will move in and so on. At least it's not our public money going into this privately held business. Let's see what happens.

JakeLRS Jun 14, 2022 1:27 AM

Federal Vaccine Mandates for Domestic and Outbound Travel set to End!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gov...ates-1.6487585

Finally!

Djeffery Jun 14, 2022 1:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9648781)

Was expecting more "flair" to this lol. But really, I know I would love to see the aircraft boneyard, which I wouldn't be able to, and Pima Air Museum, but I can't really think of any other reason I would go there. Plus, I look at it on google earth and Teheran has more colour lol.

Coldrsx Jun 14, 2022 2:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9648923)
Federal Vaccine Mandates for Domestic and Outbound Travel set to End!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gov...ates-1.6487585

Finally!

Bout time.:tup:

1overcosc Jun 14, 2022 5:05 AM

It sounds like they're keeping vaccine checking & ArriveCAN for incoming international flights, which is odd as that would be much more relevant to the border delays issue which has gotten so much attention the last few weeks.

thenoflyzone Jun 14, 2022 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9648818)
Wow people take a chill pill. We have a supposed free market so whatever happens happens. Cars, oil, forestry, electric cars, the aerospace industry, dairy and anything in Quebec is subsidized and/or protected from a true free market. If Flair was based at YUL this wouldn't even be a topic. By your logic, Swoop should be bankrupt as well because they "bought/leased" those planes from WestJet right? When Flair leaves, Lynx will move in. If Lynx leaves, Jetlines will move in and so on. At least it's not our public money going into this privately held business. Let's see what happens.

Well no. Swoop is backed by WestJet, which is a financially sound and stable airline that built its company from the ground up, in a slow and prudent manner.

Flair is none of those things.

How long did it take Westjet to build up to a fleet of 14-15 737s? How long has it taken Flair? How many hubs/bases did WS have when it started? How many does Flair have? Which one has the better strategy you think?

As for your comment about YUL, please ! Flair has a better network out of YUL than Westjet does. They could have had zero service here, or they could have based 5 737s here, it wouldn't have changed a thing. If you're using those planes to fly to Tucson, Burbank or Nashville, my conclusions about this airline would be the same.

Running after subsidy money and hoping to become sustainable one day is not a strategy. It's delaying the inevitable. We'll talk in a year or two.

LO 044 Jun 14, 2022 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9649094)
Well no. Swoop is backed by WestJet, which is a financially sound and stable airline that built its company from the ground up, in a slow and prudent manner.

Flair is none of those things.

How long did it take Westjet to build up to a fleet of 14-15 737s? How long has it taken Flair? How many hubs/bases did WS have when it started? How many does Flair have? Which one has the better strategy you think?

As for your comment about YUL, please ! Flair has a better network out of YUL than Westjet does. They could have had zero service here, or they could have based 5 737s here, it wouldn't have changed a thing. If you're using those planes to fly to Tucson, Burbank or Nashville, my conclusions about this airline would be the same.

Running after subsidy money and hoping to become sustainable one day is not a strategy. It's delaying the inevitable. We'll talk in a year or two.

No no wait. Swoop has nothing to do with WestJet right wink wink? Which is it? There should be more WestJet haters in the country than for AC. So WestJet is willing to back Swoop but not Swoop's customers when they get stranded or have to wait 12 hours to reach their call center? Swoop is a predator airline nothing more, isn't that a bad strategy or should i say illegal?

Your comment about subsidies as a strategy is laughable. Just go talk to Bombardier in your backyard and see how that company has survived with Canadian taxpayers money. The reason why companies ask for subsidies is because stupid government employees are willing to pay money out that's not theirs. Oh and BTW is not Swoop subsidized by WestJet by your argument? If Swoop loses money then WestJet will cover it. See subsidies do work... ...sort of. Air Canada in the old days. Alitalia forever and so on.

I think what you want to say is subsidies are ethically wrong and no company should get any and I agree with you on that. And in a purely capitalist system that works but most of the world is capitalist with an asterisk. Still, it is a system by far better than socialism, communism, authoritarianism. For those that don't think so, Cuba, Russia, Belarus, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, China, Hong Kong and North Korea are all waiting for you to relocate.

If a couple people get to go to Tucson for $99 more power to them. Again AC isn't after low hanging fruit but WestJet is.


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