Berkeley bans natural gas in new buildings, the first U.S. city to do so
Berkeley bans natural gas in new buildings, the first U.S. city to do so
By ALI TADAYON Quote:
Now that is WOKE, gang. |
This is really going to screw up the restaurant industry in Berkeley. Restaurants will be forced to cook with electric ranges, which are extremely impractical in commercial settings, or induction, which is very expensive.
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Obviously for homeowners who don't care about having a gas stove, this will be great. Electric water heaters are becoming more and more popular, so it's possible that more people will start making their homes all electric. |
Electricity is generated from gas fired power plants in much of the world. Europe knows this, that's why they've struck a deal with RUSSIA!!!
You can turn on your all electric range and the source is from a gas power plant in some far way dirty county/state. Forget about all the transmission lines that must be built to serve consumers... Stay Woke, my friends. |
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eh, even here in bf georgia, we get a 3rd of our power from nuclear, 10% from renewables, and building two additional reactors which will serve atlanta... gotta start taking steps somewhere to get away from fossil fuels, it won't all happen at once. |
not that anyone ever visited Berkeley for its food, but you would have to be a moron to believe that electric induction cooktops/ranges could replace gas cooktops/ranges and have zero effect on food quality. Not to mention that they're also less energy efficient. You wouldn't notice the difference with most crappy american food, but most Asian cuisines need to be cooked with gas (especially curries, make one on an induction vs gas and you will see the difference).
Something tells me restaurants in Berkeley will switch to using portable gas stoves to bypass this poorly thought out ordinance. Good days ahead for vendors selling butane in Berkeley. |
This seems incredibly ill thought out. Of all the fossil fuels to go after, they go after the one that's by far the cleanest burning of all? It's stupidity like this that gives so many people a low view of environmentalists.
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I knew when I clicked on this thread that it would focus on mockery and right-wing culture war, but I also knew there are good reasons for Berkeley and other cities to do this.
For example, the article notes the city was only able to achieve a 15 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions over the last decade, well below its targeted 33 percent reduction, and natural gas appliances currently make up 27 percent of the city’s greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing the city's natural gas appliances over time by attrition will help the city reach its targets. The article also notes two other good reasons to do this. First, a study showed 12 percent of childhood asthma was attributed to gas stoves used for cooking, and second, and more importantly, this move makes sense in earthquake country. According to the article, a 2017 U.S. Geological Survey that found that a 7.0-magnitude earthquake on the Hayward fault line (which runs under Berkeley) with the epicenter in Oakland (borders Berkeley) could result in 450 large fires, and the destruction of thousands of homes, and that ruptured gas lines would be a “key fire risk factor.” The utility that serves Berkeley, Pacific Gas & Electric, supports Berkeley and other cities switching from natural gas appliances: their spokesman told the newspaper "the company is in favor of all-electric construction" and “We welcome the opportunity to avoid investments in new gas assets that might later prove underutilized as the local governments and the state work together to realize our longterm decarbonization objectives." Unsuprisingly, some 50 other California cities are considering making the same change. Nobody seems to oppose this, except right-wing forum culture warriors seeking to embrace fossil fuels, because MAGA. |
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nuclear contributes far less to co2 emissions than natural gas. sure it's clean burning, (but not mined in a clean way!) and i think it makes sense for restaurants to be able to apply for exemptions, but it makes sense to cut it out wherever possible. |
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Some electricity is still generated from coal.
Here, with a cold climate, switching to 'all electricity' would be a financial disaster. Natural gas is much cheaper than heating with electricity. |
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It prioritizes efficiency... and puts the ball in motion towards the sole use of renewables to power our buildings sector. This is far beyond "environmentalists". This is high-level market transformation being developed by scientists, engineers, and business and government leaders. |
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And remember, this applies to NEW construction.
More and more utility efficient programs/endeavors are seeding all-electric construction. |
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Cooking saute well, especially in a busy upscale restaurant, requires a lot more brain power than non-restaurant people realize. Most great fine dining saute cooks are in about the 80th percentile of intelligence or higher. One of the challenges of a head chef is to find people who are smart enough to get an advanced degree but are instead willing to work for $16 an hour in a hot, cramped, unpleasant space without breaks and live completely detached from normal life (which is why cooks tend to be immigrants or weirdos, that is where you find smart people without degrees). By changing from gas to electric and making saute harder, you now may need a saute cook in the 90th percentile of IQ rather than the 80th. That is going to make staffing the kitchen harder. |
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This seems odd.
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I don't see how there would be a problem with this if California has major wind, geothermal, and solar energy infrastructure.
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https://i.imgur.com/opYWaL7.png |
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And if Berkeley was anything important in the culinary world then this wouldn't even be considered. Any place that would consider itself to have "world-class" culinary scene would never consider this. Try passing a law like this in Asia, France, or Southern Europe and heads would roll. Its very obvious from reading this thread who cooks professionally or at home in a serious manner and who doesn't. Anybody that cooks knows that gas is 100 times better than induction. Turning on a gas stove gets you an instant, constant flame that you can adjust visually.The flames produced by a natural gas stove also cook food more quickly and evenly, because the flames spread themselves along the bottom and sides of the pan. There are a lot of dishes out there that can't be cooked without gas stove. Try making a curry or stir fry on an induction stove (you can't). Watch any food network show and you will never see any chef who takes himself seriously caught dead with an induction stove top. My guess is restaurants will just use portable butane cookers that are common in Asia. I have a few commercial grade ones at 15,000 BTU and the work great (no gas line in my building). |
Totally agree with floor and chef on this topic. You don't need to be a pro to realize how limiting electric cookers are, esp. in Asian cooking. Try frying rice without proper heat going up the sides of a wok. Good luck w that.
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Sounds like a good idea to me. I will just have to trust the restaurants of the world to figure it out. People often find changes to be awkward but this(The move away from fossil fuels) is one that is absolutely necessary. So we will have to adapt. This is likely one of the easier changes we will be faced with in the coming years.
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We get along fine with no natural gas in any buildings in South Florida.
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I'm proposing an experiment:
1) Observation: Folks in Berkeley seem to be triggered easily, at anything. 2) Hypothesis: The degree of triggering could result in death or severe injury in which the degree of triggered nature and subsequent death/injury probability for "X" subject is exponential depending on how large the trigger factor is. I wonder what would happen if the following scenario occurred at Berkeley; Parameters of the experiment: Experimental Group: A pick up truck (F350 Ford), with black diesel exhaust, no muffler, no catalytic converters, rolling coal every 2 minutes... with pro MAGA bumper stickers, assault life stickers on the back, "the south will rise again" slogans on the truck, the truck is raised, playing outlaw country, fume pipe near the cab, the old banned Arkansas flag displayed on small flag poles extending from the sides of the cab on both ends, and a bumper sticker that states "coal is the future", pro-life, pro-marriage, "god will punish those that go against scripture" slogans, and finally... some hay in the cab that hasn't been tied correctly, and is thus, going all over the road. Now with the truck, same truck, but replicated in the following cities: Berkeley, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, and NYC. What I'm curious to learn from this experiment are the indicators of "time" , magnitude of injury, trigger factor, how many folks get triggered, and to what means of out-lashing do they resort too; verbal, violence, twitter/S.Media volume influx, and I want to measure in units of m³ the volume of tears, and how many barrels (assuming 50 gallons) the tears could fit from conducting the experiment over the span of 5 hours. Disclaimer: Some drivers understand that this might be a one-way mission. I think this experiment could further help us understand anthropological, and the human psychology even further in 2019. |
Someone has to take the lead in pushing technological innovation.
If it happens to be a poster-child bastion of liberal hippy thought like Berkeley (which also happens to be a major center of technological innovation), so be it. |
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But of course, everyone here overlooks this and just has to inject their personal political views into this discussion. |
^^^^
I just wonder what the cost will be to both residents and businesses to make the transition. I apologize for the troll post, I know... I just had to get it off my mind... sometimes a good idea comes to mind due to creativity. I mean, possibly rolling it out over "X" years would of been appropriate. California has always pushed the frontier of change, but I feel at the expense (cost) to the residents or general business environment. Transition is key I feel. Like imagine if you have a business that relies on natural gas, and now... you have all of this expense at once. Even with exceptions, all it does is create bureaucracy, more paperwork, and makes it even harder to do business. |
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There will be no transition. It doesn't need to be "rolled out". It is inherently being rolled out by focusing on new construction. Goddamn, fucking read for 2 minutes. |
I did read it. And I think the time frame for new construction is too short of a notice. In a state that has a housing crisis, this is just further adding to the giant stack of bs that developers have to go through.
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I guess you've never heard of Chez Panisse, Alice Waters, and the birth of California cuisine? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chez_Panisse Berkeley has some good ethnic restaurants too. My partner and I have even made it a point a few times when we visit San Francisco to go into Berkeley and eat at a very good Himalayan/Nepalese restaurant. |
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In China they had a three sided brick thing that focused the heat of the open fire and they would put cooking implements on top. |
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The modern restaurant is really the product of the inventions of the gas range and the restaurant ventilation hood (which prevented cooks from dying of carbon monoxide poisoning). Both were invented in the early 19th century and became more common over time. Escoffier's brigade system for organizing the work, which came about in the late 19 century was the third piece. The kitchen of an 18th century inn would be completely different than what a modern chef is used to. |
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So the desire for temperature control really is only a fairly recent thing. |
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