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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

sandiego_urban Jul 8, 2007 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 2940415)
:previous: In no uncertain terms do I like parking in a tower that is above grade. All of it should be below grade with ground level retail or commercail with accessible areas for the public. With ground level parkign in a tower I can just hear the sucking noise....sssssssssssssssssssssucking hte energy out of the area.

I can't argue with you here. Towers set on podiums are just hideous. It's funny that a few posts earlier, I had mentioned how happy I was that downtown hasn't been getting any parking structure bases, then lo and behold, we get one here. Even NBC was redesigned to put all parking underground.

I just hope CCDC forces the developer to redesign the base (as well as some exterior detail) before this project receives approval.


Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman
I believe that this Marriott proposal will be a good barometer in terms of how the "ballpark village" will develop. If the design for the Marriott is sprawling like the Hilton, we'll know that the city has given up on the ballpark village master plan. If the project looks dense and like a piece of a puzzle, I think we'll be ok.

Good point. We can only hope that it will be more urban in design, instead of resort-style (like their current Marriott along the bay). Hopefully, the BV masterplan will remain in place so that it maximizes the land use. If it takes years to complete, then so be it.

That it's being called the Marriott Convention Hotel, makes me think it will be a major developent.

sandiego_urban Jul 8, 2007 7:07 PM

It appears The Diegan aka The Setai San Diego, is headed for full-scale hotel status instead of being a condo-hotel.




The Market For Condo Hybrids Is Trending Down, Experts Say

By Penni Crabtree
SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

July 8, 2007

As one of the hot new hybrids – part condominium, part hotel – The Diegan, along with a handful of local projects, aims to reshape tourism and the luxury condo market.

Developers began embracing the condo-hotel concept in the late 1990s when financing for conventional hotels became difficult. By preselling units before construction, developers were able to obtain loans and other investor money more easily for high-end hotel projects.

Buyers, who own the units but occupy them only a fraction of the year, could also benefit because a condo-hotel allowed them to cover part of their costs by collecting some of the revenue generated by hotel guests who use the room.

Yet some real estate experts say the market for condo-hotels has changed, tracking a similar downturn in the traditional condo market. In San Diego, sales in May of resale condos were down 16.6 percent from May 2006 and down 53.5 percent from their peak pace in April 2004, according to DataQuick Information Systems. The median condo price in San Diego was off almost 4 percent from May 2006 to May 2007.

“The condo-hotel investment market has cooled off, just like the residential market has cooled off,” said Gary London, president of San Diego's London Group Realty Advisors, a real estate consulting and feasibility firm. “I haven't seen the concept be successful except in the very best of locations.”

High-profile condo-hotel projects in San Diego include downtown's Hard Rock Hotel and Hotel del Coronado's Beach Village villas, both of which are under construction.

The Diegan, slated for completion later this year, recently acquired its branded operator – New York-based The Setai Group – and will change its name to Setai San Diego, according to a news item posted Monday in the online edition of the San Diego Business Journal.

Nick D'Annunzio of Tara Ink, which is handling publicity for The Diegan, said Tuesday that an official announcement will be released tomorrow. The Setai Group, a development firm that specializes in luxury residential and boutique hotels, did not return telephone calls.

Whether The Diegan remains a condo-hotel project remains uncertain, according to stakeholders in 5th Avenue Partners, the company that is developing the property.

Steve Rebeil, majority partner in 5th Avenue Partners, testified last month in a court case that the condo portion of the condo-hotel will likely be scrapped because of poor market conditions.

Derek Clark, another partner in 5th Avenue, said last month that the local condo market has become “aggressively downgraded in pricing” and that consultants “are telling us that it is probably better to run it as a hotel.”

“I don't know where this will play out,” Clark said. “We will let the market determine that.”

The Diegan's rooms, suites and penthouses, ranging from 400 to 2,700 square feet, are being marketed in the $400,000s to $3.8 million range.

The residential units will boast 10-foot ceilings and interiors constructed from imported stone, marble, exotic woods and art glass, according to a recent news release. The hotel will have a restaurant, spa, fitness center, pool and the House of Blues music club.

Gina Champion-Cane, a San Diego developer who proposed the House of Blues/Diegan complex in 1998, said The Diegan is a good project that captures the imagination and financing.

And she credits Rebeil with the moxie to finish what she couldn't.

“Development is a very tricky, bizarre business and, frankly, developers are not the nicest of people,” Champion-Cane said. “It really took a cowboy and entrepreneur like Rebeil. I don't think any of this would have happened without him.”

Champion-Cane originally proposed a project that included the House of Blues, a small condo complex and a parking garage. But the project became mired in regulatory and financing issues, as well as problems with her then-partner Stanley Hanson, who later brought in Rebeil.

In 2001, Champion-Cane and Hanson had a legal dispute over the project, which ended in a settlement. The former partners declined to comment, and the Orange County Superior Court case file was destroyed.

Derek Jul 8, 2007 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiegodweller (Post 2940602)
3 years after land was taken, it's being used as parking lot
By Jeanette Steele
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

June 24, 2007

DOWNTOWN SAN DIEGO – Construction costs are skyrocketing, a court fight is dragging along, and three years after a Gaslamp Quarter cigar shop was condemned to make way for a hotel, the site is being used as a parking lot.


EDUARDO CONTRERAS / Union-Tribune
The Gran Havana cigar shop on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues was condemned to make way for a hotel, but the site is a parking lot today.
Now the developer of a proposed Marriott Renaissance is asking San Diego's downtown redevelopment agency for another extension.

Under the current agreement, excavation of the site should have started in January and the hotel should be completed by September 2008. The company now proposes to bring in the backhoes in May and finish the hotel in July 2010.

The Centre City Development Corp. will consider the request at a meeting Wednesday. The downtown redevelopment agency, which took the Gran Havana cigar shop in a controversial decision in 2004, has been unhappy about the delay.

Shop owner Ahmad Mesdaq's appeal of the eminent domain action still is pending in court. So is the agency's appeal of a judge and jury's $9.1 million award to Mesdaq. Oral arguments in both cases start July 17.

The developer blames the delay on that litigation and the chilling effect of Proposition 90, the failed 2006 ballot measure that might have limited the city's condemnation powers.

Now the developer, GRH LLC, wants to lease the whole project to an Anaheim-based company, Hansji Hotels, that is building a hotel across the street. GRH wants help with spiraling project costs, which went from $70 million in April 2004 to $108 million today.
“We are all committed to proceeding with the project as expeditiously as possible,” said Cynthia Eldred, attorney for GRH, which is managed by Ramin Samimi of San Diego.

Samimi's firm wants a nearly two-year extension on the construction timeline dictated by the downtown agency. It would be the second extension, agency officials said.

Mesdaq calls these requests unfair.

“It's just a very sad fact when a government entity takes property for a private developer so he can flip it and make a big sum of money,” he said.

Mesdaq, 36, said he tried reopening his cigar shop in September 2006 at another Gaslamp Quarter address, but business never came around and he closed in January.

Mesdaq, a Scripps Ranch resident, said he plans to use his settlement money to open another business in the Gaslamp.

Eldred disputed that this is a case of “flipping” a project, as GRH would maintain ownership of the land while Hansji Hotels would build and operate the hotel.

She also said the proposed lease doesn't allow her client to cash in. Under the deal with Hansji, she said, GRH takes a hit on expected earnings both now and in the future.

The company already has spent $23 million on the project.

The site is on J Street between Fifth and Sixth avenues. Mesdaq owned 5,000 square feet of the 40,000-square-foot parcel that is slated to become a four-star Marriott Renaissance hotel with 334 rooms.

GRH originally wanted to build the hotel on a different downtown site that it owned, but that land was condemned for what became Petco Park.

Mesdaq bought his property in 2000 and, combined with renovations he had made, sunk about $2.5 million into the former warehouse, turning the site into a showcase.

The city long has maintained that Mesdaq knew the hotel proposal was coming when he purchased the land. He says he didn't learn of it until he was in escrow.

Mesdaq refused offers to sell and went to court to stop the condemnation. He argued that taking his land and handing it to a private party did not amount to a “public use.”

In recent years, governments have used eminent domain powers for “economic development,” arguing that the tax revenue and jobs that private developers bring ultimately benefit the public. City redevelopment officials argued that the hotel would provide much-needed property and hotel-room tax revenue and hotel rooms to serve the Convention Center.

The cigar shop was demolished. The land is being used now as a pay parking lot, with the revenue going to the developer and the downtown agency.

That's just bullshit. Build the damn thing already, you are the one that wanted the site in the first place.

mongoXZ Jul 8, 2007 10:34 PM

Another Marriott in downtown? That plus the proposal for the Nickelodeon/Marriott resort near the airport and it seems like these guys have a hard-on for San Diego!

I'm kind of dreading the idea that the proposed Marriott will resemble the mega hotels on Harbor: Tacky, no consideration for the urbanity on its streets, large parking garages. I'm hoping that's not the case.

bushman61988 Jul 9, 2007 5:55 AM

IMO i think you guys are complaining WAY too much about the Shapery Park Tower.

Sure, the design is a little odd, and there's above ground parking, but at least they tried to hide with glass and some of that weird exterior. Plus, it's something different! It's so NICE to have something DIFFERENT for once, and like someone said earlier, having this being built by the architect who made the Emerald Plaza definitely gives him some credibility. Plus, you got a rooftop restaraunt at one of the best locations possible, LEED certified, AND a glass elevator! (i'm sorry, but to me, that's really cool)


C'mon guys, AT LEAST the architect is trying to make something decent for San Diego and isn't half-assin the design like so many towers out there (to name a few The Mark, Allegro Tower, the Legend, Fahrenheit, Cortez Blu).
LIGHTEN UP!!

SDCAL Jul 9, 2007 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoXZ (Post 2941138)
Another Marriott in downtown? That plus the proposal for the Nickelodeon/Marriott resort near the airport and it seems like these guys have a hard-on for San Diego!

I'm kind of dreading the idea that the proposed Marriott will resemble the mega hotels on Harbor: Tacky, no consideration for the urbanity on its streets, large parking garages. I'm hoping that's not the case.

As a previous poster noted, marriott has some very nice properties under their umbrella. I just visited 2 JW Marriott hotels overseas and they are very, very nice city-oriented hotels that generally include at least 3-4 nice restaurants and nightlife on-site and incorporate local flavor to integrate the properties and make them unique to the destination. They are also very popular for business and convention travellers who prefer a higher-end hotel that has 5 star service

if the proposal is for another regular Marriott I say to Marriott to stay away becasue we have too many, but if it's a JW Marriott I say welcome because they are very distinct from other Marriotts

SDCAL Jul 9, 2007 6:08 AM

Chula Vists's loss is dissapointing, but look at it this way - - the addition of a convention center there was being touted as possible competition for SD's convention center. Maybe developers will invest more into attracting and maybe expanding (if there is any room???) our downtown convention center since it's obvious the surrounding cities are unable to lure investment. Even though our CC seems large, it is still not big enough to hold mega-sized conventions that would probably go to LA

SDCAL Jul 9, 2007 6:14 AM

ABOUT UNIONS

Our conservative-slanting media is making the pullout from Chula Vista of the project seem like the fault of the Unions, that is simply not ture. San Diego's union force is minute compared to other cities such as Chicago, yet mega-projects have no problem getting off the gound there.
THIS IS SOLELY THE FAULT OF THE LOCAL CHULA VISTA GOVERNMENT, STARTING WITH THE MAYOR
If these government officials had ANY skill at all and were doing their job, they would have mediated and arrange compromise between the union and developer. This is common practice in all big cities, and they failed. It is really sad that our red-neck nazi media outlets slant the stories to put the entire failure on the unions, and none on the localgovernment

SDCAL Jul 9, 2007 6:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonman (Post 2940660)
I believe that this Marriott proposal will be a good barometer in terms of how the "ballpark village" will develop. If the design for the Marriott is sprawling like the Hilton, we'll know that the city has given up on the ballpark village master plan. If the project looks dense and like a piece of a puzzle, I think we'll be ok.

This is the problem, we shouldn't have to wait to see how it will look, we should be able to ge this information BEFORE it's built and as a citizen of the ballpark area I am pissed off at how hard it is to get information on what's going on around me and the status of projects. Sure the ccdc website is nice and packed with info, but it only includes what they want you to know and leaves plenty out. there is a layer of secrecy surrounding a large-portion of downtown's development that residents can't access. going to the CCDC office and calling developers you get air-heads that can't answer anything. We shouldn't have to wait and see if this building will look like a "piece of a puzzle", we should know if this is part of the master-plan now, or if they have abandoned the master plan and are just going to let things be built piecemeal, which means the neighborhood will end up looking like shit.

bushman61988 Jul 9, 2007 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2941802)
Chula Vists's loss is dissapointing, but look at it this way - - the addition of a convention center there was being touted as possible competition for SD's convention center. Maybe developers will invest more into attracting and maybe expanding (if there is any room???) our downtown convention center since it's obvious the surrounding cities are unable to lure investment. Even though our CC seems large, it is still not big enough to hold mega-sized conventions that would probably go to LA

That's so sad, but it definitely isn't just the unions fault, but the inability of the city government (especially that mayor of Chula Vista, Where the f*** was she in all this, and why didn't she do more than go on vacation and complain about how she wished an agreement could be met).



On a different note, it looks like on the CCDC website, they posted the design review or planned design review that's suppose to be going on this Wednesday for that Marriot Convention Hotel we're heaing about. By the way, i read some of the review and was VERY disappointed to hear the towers they were proposing weren't 500 feet or more (487 feet in two towers). Let's just hope the design is something fresh.


I really want to go to this design review to catch a glimpse of the towers, but where would i go?

Marina_Guy Jul 9, 2007 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDCAL (Post 2941812)
ABOUT UNIONS

Our conservative-slanting media is making the pullout from Chula Vista of the project seem like the fault of the Unions, that is simply not ture. San Diego's union force is minute compared to other cities such as Chicago, yet mega-projects have no problem getting off the gound there.
THIS IS SOLELY THE FAULT OF THE LOCAL CHULA VISTA GOVERNMENT, STARTING WITH THE MAYOR
If these government officials had ANY skill at all and were doing their job, they would have mediated and arrange compromise between the union and developer. This is common practice in all big cities, and they failed. It is really sad that our red-neck nazi media outlets slant the stories to put the entire failure on the unions, and none on the localgovernment

fully agree. It you are going to hand out a $300 million dollar subsidy you better know what you are doing and who you are dealing with. Gaylord is no friend to California. They just tried to find the most 'business friendly' 'city' on the California coast for their venture. Obviously, $300 million wasn't friendly enough.

ucsbgaucho Jul 9, 2007 2:58 PM

So.... Gaylord + $1 billion + Chargers = New stadium/convention center at the Qualcomm site?! C'mon! The Chargers were looking for a developer with that kind of cash to invest... now they have it....

SDCAL Jul 9, 2007 4:40 PM

Lufthansa to fly to San Diego?
 
came accross this on the net, wonder what if anything came from the meeting

CALL TO ACTION Issued by Airport Authority

Source: San Diego County Regional Airport Authority
Date: April 27, 2007


LUFTHANSA PROGRAM: CALL TO ACTION

The San Diego County Regional Airport Authority will meet with Lufthansa airlines in late May to make a business case for San Diego as a hub for their airline operation. The Airport Authority requests information from San Diego County organizations and corporations in advance of this initial meeting with Lufthansa.

Nonstop international air service has great economic impact on the regions that enjoy such service. For instance, the city of Phoenix estimates their flight to London adds $238 million in annual economic impact. The city of Portland, Oregon estimates their flight to Frankfurt adds $90 million in annual economic impact. San Diego, as the single largest US city without nonstop service to Europe, is at a distinct disadvantage in attracting this valuable international economic activity. In fact, many San Diego businesses lose precious hours of worker productivity by connecting their staff or customers over other hubs or worse having them spend the day driving to LAX.

Unlike prior European service to San Diego, a Lufthansa flight would enjoy full frequent flyer reciprocity with the United Airlines Mileage Plus® and USAirways Dividend Miles program. Additionally, the flight would likely have a United Airlines flight number making the service available to San Diego-based corporations, government and defense contractors, who must use domestic service providers under the “Fly America” federal regulations. A Lufthansa service would therefore be able to attract from a wider pool of potential business travelers.

Your Support is Needed to Make the Business Case

In advance of a late May meeting, the Airport Authority needs to demonstrate to Lufthansa the willingness of key San Diego County institutions and corporations to support a potential service by the airline to San Diego. In order to be successful at this initial meeting, the Airport Authority requests a letter of support from the CEO (or highest ranking San Diego-based executive) of your member corporations by May 15th. For your reference a sample letter can be provided. Please contact Mr. Hampton Brown (see below) for this sample letter or for more information.

While initially a letter of support would be useful, if the discussions progress, the airline will likely ask the San Diego community for more firm commitments prior to launching service. An example of future commitments may entail pledges to spend a portion of your organization’s Europe travel budget on the potential nonstop flight.

Contact:

Mr. Hampton Brown
Manager, Route Service Development
San Diego County Regional Airport Authority
P.O. Box 82776
San Diego, CA 92138-2776
619-400-2876
via e-mail / pdf: hbrown@san.org

If you have any questions regarding this request, please contact Mr. Hampton Brown, Manager of Route Service Development at 619-400-2876 or hbrown@san.org.

Derek Jul 9, 2007 9:11 PM

So what kind of plane would they use? I'm glad Lufthansa is looking at San Diego though.

Derek Jul 9, 2007 9:12 PM

If Shapery Park submerges all of it's parking, I might consider liking it more. ;)

Derek Jul 9, 2007 9:41 PM

Do the cargo trains that run straight through the middle of downtown, cutting off traffic flow and creating a ton of un-necessary noise piss anybody else off?

I propose submerging them, right under where the current tracks are, replacing the above ground rail with more trees, shrubery or a nice little flower garden, it could'nt hurt.

mello Jul 9, 2007 10:36 PM

Wow lots of activity (or inactivity CV bayfront) and great ideas going on right now. About the Gaylord/Chargers issue. I think these two should really team up on a site be it CV bayfront, Mission Valley, or Tenth Ave marine terminal with possible Arena there as well.

Ok list of VASTLY UNDERUSED Metro SD sites

1. CV and National City Bayfront
2. Qualcomm Stadium Site
3. Sports Arena Site
4. Tenth Ave. Marine Terminal
5. Obviously land on PCH and Harbor downtown but plans are moving ahead
6. Fiesta Island Mission Bay
7. Shity Trailor Park/Mobile Home Park on East Mission Bay

Here is an idea I know locals and environmentals will go ape shit over but here it is: Fiesta Island -- Hotel, luxury condos, Chargers Stadium, and possible arena if there is room. You get Gaylord and Spanos and maybe Ernie Hahn and his cronies to invest. Build a huge freeway offramp from I-5 directly into Fiesta Island.

What do you guys think. Centrally located, views, beaches, parks etc?? Might work... But would be HUGE NIMBY fight lol!

jesseasi Jul 9, 2007 10:40 PM

Looking for advise - new to the luxury high rise condo world...
 
I have been quickly browsing through the thousands of posts here on the site and while most of the discussion has to do with new high rises and the growth of San Diego – a few of you live in condos and have good feel for the market. If my post is not appropriate for this forum – please excuse this question.

I am in the market to buy a condo and have a unit on reserve at the Legend. I have until this weekend to decide if I am going to buy it or let it go.

My main fear in investing in a condo like this are:

1. HOA Fees – they seem super high – but not just here – most everywhere HOA fees are going to be $500+. That money that is not tax deductible and if you are not taking advantage of the property – it is down the toilet.

2. Prospectors – the Legend will start closing their units this fall. Would it be wise to buy a unit right now at full price or wait till there is a flood of prospectors trying to unload their units. I am sure many of the buyers got in super early have great prices locked in. Taking a cool quick 10-20% profit might be a chance for me to land a better unit at about the same prices I am getting right now.

3. The whole San Diego market in general – every real estate agent I talk to in San Diego tells me prices are going up and up. That “we are past our little correction”. I am not sure I believe them.

My goal in buying a condo is to have a great 2nd home. I live up in LA and San Diego is a great place to visit. I am a season ticket holder for the Chargers and go down there every chance I get. I want something that is unique and special – not the run of the mill condo. I feel like at the legend I am getting an above average unit in a very unique and special building.

Any input or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you
(potential new San Diego resident!)

Derek Jul 9, 2007 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mello (Post 2942941)

Here is an idea I know locals and environmentals will go ape shit over but here it is: Fiesta Island -- Hotel, luxury condos, Chargers Stadium, and possible arena if there is room. You get Gaylord and Spanos and maybe Ernie Hahn and his cronies to invest. Build a huge freeway offramp from I-5 directly into Fiesta Island.

What do you guys think. Centrally located, views, beaches, parks etc?? Might work... But would be HUGE NIMBY fight lol!

I like! Fiesta Island isn't the greatest of places anyways. A trolley stop could go there too.;)

SDPhil Jul 9, 2007 10:53 PM

Do not beleive the realtors who tel you prices are going up. I have noticed quite a few of the properties are getting cheaper (the Grande, Little Italy). You might want to hold off for a few months.


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